dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (Dave Newton the Late) (03/20/90)
I'd like to see a _real_ alt.hack type group thtat focuses on people building their own systems. It would discuss hardware, software, and anything else people see relevant. Whaddya all think? -- David L. Newton | uunet!marque!carroll1!dnewton (414) 524-7343 (work) | dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (414) 524-6809 (home) | 100 NE Ave, Waukesha WI 53186 -- David L. Newton | uunet!marque!carroll1!dnewton (414) 524-7343 (work) | dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (414) 524-6809 (home) | 100 NE Ave, Waukesha WI 53186
grege@gold.GVG.TEK.COM (Gregory Ebert) (03/22/90)
In article <1341@carroll1.cc.edu> dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (Dave Newton the Late) writes: > > I'd like to see a _real_ alt.hack type group thtat focuses on people >building their own systems. It would discuss hardware, software, and >anything else people see relevant. >Whaddya all think? Count me in. I'm still tinkering with my 32032 designer's kit. So far, I have a CPU and RAM/ROM card on S-100 (modified) wire-wrapped.
dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (Dave Newton the Late) (03/22/90)
In article <865@gold.GVG.TEK.COM> grege@gold.GVG.TEK.COM (Gregory Ebert) writes: > Count me in. I'm still tinkering with my 32032 designer's kit. >So far, I have a CPU and RAM/ROM card on S-100 (modified) wire-wrapped. My gosh, now two people have replied. This isn't going too well. Well, we'll give it a while and see what happens. Maybe a mailing list is in order. -- David L. Newton | uunet!marque!carroll1!dnewton (414) 524-7343 (work) | dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (414) 524-6809 (home) | 100 NE Ave, Waukesha WI 53186
bobh@unicorn.WWU.EDU (Bob Hayes) (03/23/90)
In article <1349@carroll1.cc.edu> dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (Dave Newton the Late) writes: << prior stuff deleted>> > > My gosh, now two people have replied. This isn't going too well. Well, >we'll give it a while and see what happens. Maybe a mailing list is in >order. > OK, OK Now there's only 3 solder splatters out here! What IS the correct forum?? Per hardware division? Prototypers anonymous? Cheap and low cost iron-on masks? Board-etch with percolator cleaner? All these hardware hack tricks that we use but are ashamed to admit to? %-) Will this be the place to share those warm feelings 'ya get when someone *WHO KNOWS SOMETHING* asks you *HOW DIDJA DO THAT??!* ?? sure, why not... -- Bob Hayes < bob@arthur.wwu.edu > USnail follows: Western Washington University Computer Science Dept. Bond Hall 302, Bellingham, Washington 98225 Obbligato Disclaimer: Real programmers carry screwdrivers!
grege@gold.GVG.TEK.COM (Gregory Ebert) (03/23/90)
In article <604@unicorn.WWU.EDU> bobh@unicorn.WWU.EDU (Bob Hayes) writes: >OK, OK Now there's only 3 solder splatters out here! Ok. I'll take some initiative. The first step is to define our systems. Since most of us hackers are on a limited budget, we should concentrate on using as much as we can of what's already out there or in our junk boxes. The hardware aspects should be kept as bare-bones as possible, yet leave provisions for future expansion. Stuff like DMA, 32 serial ports, SCSI, etc is nice, but for the purposes of just getting something running, all we need is a serial port and a monitor program. A few years ago, I bought a 32032 designer's kit from Jameco, which had a 6Mhz set of the CPU, MMU, FPU, TCU, and ICU. There were also some ROMS which have an assembler. I gave up on using the ROMs because I had no source code, and there was no detailed documentation on what kind of hardware was expected. Thus began my endeavor : to build an expandable 32032 system. I started by redefining the S-100 bus so that I could use my 8-bit cards with the new system. That simplified matters immensely, because all I needed then was to wire-wrap a CPU and RAM/ROM card. Why the memory card ?? The 32032 needs a 32 bit bus. I chose a very simple arrangement with 12 28-pin sockets which can use 8Kx8 or 32Kx8 static RAMs or EPROMs, mapped from address 0. The boot ROM will need to be copied to RAM, and deselected in future revisions to allow software to change the interrupt vectors. The CPU card follows the schematic in the data book, except I added the ICU and ran the INTx lines to the VIx lines on the S-100 bus. Thats as far as I've gotten. We need to get some software going. I propose that we use the stuff in beowulf, and whatever is available from the Free Software Foundation. Although I am not affiliated with them, I think that we should contribute to their cause if we decide to use their software. For the meantime, we will need to get a VERY simple monitor up and running, before anything else can be done. ACTION ITEMS ------------ I will undertake the following tasks: 1. See what is available from beowulf. Some people in the past have had trouble getting stuff back because the netland mailers sometimes screw-up the return path. Don't blame beowulf! I will report waht happens. If I have trouble, will ask someone to give it a try, and that person can then be the individual through whom we coordinate software requests. I DON'T want everyone pounding on the server there, and tying it up, because we could lose the privelege. 2. Dust-off my notes/schematics for the 32032. Get stuff online in particular the S-100 bus retrofit for others to see. 3. Find and adopt a P-D assembler for the 32032. I would greatly appreciate it if someone could help with this. It would be ideal if we had 'C' source program which would create ASCII-hex files which I could then dump onto our PROM burner. FUTURE TOPICS ------------- 1. The monitor. I want to write it in assembly-source code for the above-described assembler. It MUST have drivers which can be easily modified for ANY hardware configuration. This entire project is gigantic waste of time if we cant get some sort of agreement upon hardware-independence. I don't want a fiasco like the IBM PC !! 2. Remember: This project can only survive if YOU contribute. The 32032 is in my opinion the best thought-out processor ever made, and we will all have a great time working with it.
rickr@virtech.uucp (Rick Rodman) (03/23/90)
In article <872@gold.GVG.TEK.COM>, grege@gold.GVG.TEK.COM (Gregory Ebert) writes: > For the meantime, we will need to get a VERY simple monitor > up and running, before anything else can be done. I'm new to this system. However, I have a simple ROM monitor, called SRM (simple ROM monitor) which I use on a Compupro CPU-32016. > 3. Find and adopt a P-D assembler for the 32032. I would > greatly appreciate it if someone could help with this. It > would be ideal if we had 'C' source program which would > create ASCII-hex files which I could then dump onto our > PROM burner. The assembler by Bruce Culbertson is very good. It comes with complete source. I use this assembler and another C program to produce PROMs of the above ROM monitor. I have a 32532 designer's kit and a pd-32 also. What I have been doing is using a C compiler (with source), the aforementioned assembler, and other assorted public-domain or "copylefted" C source files, on a PC (cross-development) to write a simple MS-DOS clone operating system (if MS-DOS can be called that) for the NS-32 processor. It's a lot of stuff which has been posted in the past. The monitor's not too big, and it's pretty simple (read bare-bones). By the way, TDS source is available, but it's written in a strange dialect. If you would like, send a couple of 1.2 or 1.44 floppies to me by snail mail with return postage and I will put a C compiler, assembler, monitor, make utility, eprom utility, etc. on it and send it back to you. send to: Rick Rodman, 8329 Ivy Glen Court, Manassas VA 22110. I have looked at the GCC stuff, and it is a shame that these folks are not constrained by any real-world considerations like comments for mere mortals. Alas! I couldn't even compile GCC on a Unix workstation, it's just too darned big and complicated. I still have hopes. > 2. Remember: This project can only survive if YOU contribute. > The 32032 is in my opinion the best thought-out processor ever > made, and we will all have a great time working with it. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I saw it written that IBM's choice of the 8088 for the PC was the most costly decision in human history. How sad. Let me know if I can help you in any way. I have some extra chips, data books... -- Rick Rodman uunet!virtech!rickr (703)734-7261(w) (703)330-9849(h) Cable & Wireless, Tysons Corner VA
david@marvin.jpl.oz (David Magnay) (03/24/90)
> My gosh, now two people have replied. This isn't going too well. Well, > we'll give it a while and see what happens. Maybe a mailing list is in > order. This group is prob good enuf for your purposes. It is rarely very busy, and close enuf in concept to do. Do we really need yet another group ? Anyway, if you do make a group, could you put me on pls ? .......................................................... Any bad ideas are all my own. The company I work for has run out. .......................................................... David Magnay mail david@marvin.jpl.oz.au Johns Perry Lifts 45 Wangara Road, Cheltenham 3192 phone (03) 584-3311 Victoria, Australia O/seas +61 3 584 3311
kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) (03/27/90)
In article <872@gold.GVG.TEK.COM> grege@gold.GVG.TEK.COM (Gregory Ebert) writes: > Ok. I'll take some initiative. The first step is to define our > systems. Since most of us hackers are on a limited budget, we > should concentrate on using as much as we can of what's > already out there or in our junk boxes. Are you familiar with Dave Rand and George Scolaro's pc532? While the '532 is an expensive chip set the board otherwise sounds like fits your needs. Mail to dlr@daver.bungi.com shoud get you more info. > The hardware aspects should be kept as bare-bones as possible, > yet leave provisions for future expansion. Stuff like DMA, 32 > serial ports, SCSI, etc is nice, but ... The pc532 has 8 serial ports and SCSI, so I guess it kinda halfway exceeds your specs. But you don't have to fully populate the serial ports if you don't want. I suppose you could not plug in any SCSI controllers but sooner or later you'll want a disk ... > Thus began my endeavor : to build an expandable 32032 system. The price tag of the 32032 is certainly an incentive to look at it over the 32532 if you don't need/want the speed. You still might wish to work with the pc532 crowd (maybe call yours a pc032?) so you can share as many resources as possible, software and hardware alike. For software, Minix will definitely be running on the pc532. It also seems likely that at least one form of Unix will be available, perhaps both System V and some BSD or Mach variant. If your pc032 uses reasonably similar I/O to the pc532 porting either OS should be fairly easy. On the hardware front the pc532 has two SCSI busses, one a general purpose one and the other one providing a high speed synchronous SCSI bus for disks and tapes. You might consider including just the general purpose SCSI, with the same type slots as the pc532 so boards could be shared between the two machines. > For the meantime, we will need to get a VERY simple monitor > up and running, before anything else can be done. Bruce Culbertson is providing the monitor for the pc532. I can't vouch for its quality as my pc532 is still waiting for a few parts but it already exists and is available in source form. I'm willing to spend some extra bucks to get the performance but there are lots of people who aren't, and it would be quite nice to have a "family" of machines so the limited resources of each group could be shared to mutual advantage. -- Karl Swartz |UUCP uunet!apple!zygot!ditka!kls 1-408/223-1308 |INet zygot!ditka!kls@apple.com "I never let my schooling get in |BIX kswartz the way of my education."(Twain) |Snail 1738 Deer Creek Ct., San Jose CA 95148