kls@ditka.Chicago.COM (Karl Swartz) (06/13/91)
> Not having heard anything after the initial flurry of interest, I've > sort of come to the conclusion that development on Minix has ground > to a halt ... people seem either blase' or disinterested. I can't speak for anyone else but I've pretty much lost interest. I have a somewhat limited amount of time to spend on my pc532 and would like to spend that time on productive endeavors that are of interest to me. Redoing work already done by others doesn't fit the bill. For example, when the ksh clone was posted I thought, "great!" But after wasting a few hours I came to realize that I also need ESTDIO to get ksh working. So, the next day I grudgingly went on a scavenger hunt to find this piece, and eventually got it on my machine. Then I tried to build it and found I needed to fiddle a bit. At that point I gave up, partly lack of time, partly lack of interest. Yes, I'd like to have ksh. Yes, I understand Minix isn't a nicely packaged system like a MacIntoy, and that the availability of the whole thing in source form is an attraction. But I'd rather not be *forced* into this mold -- give me binaries or at least sources that will build with little more than a few, well documented config changes. Then, rather than reinventing the wheel, I can spend my time on other, more useful pursuits, like working on uucp or mail or networking. For now, my pc532 sits idle, mostly waiting for something to shake loose on the Unix front, while I spend my time more productively. -- Karl Swartz |INet kls@ditka.chicago.com 1-408/223-1308 |UUCP {uunet,decwrl}!daver!ditka!kls |Snail 1738 Deer Creek Ct., San Jose CA 95148 "The more people I meet the more I like my dog."
phil@cs.wwu.EDU (Phil Nelson) (06/13/91)
>Myself, I've pretty much settled on Mach for my future, but >Minix is still the only game in town for most, so it seems like >there ought to be SOME interest out there.. What gives? I don't >like to see things just fade away like this, yet I don't want to >jump in and start swinging away if someone else is already hot >on it. I agree that Mach and Hurd may be the way to go in the future, but I'm sure that Minix is not dead yet. Bruce C and I have been talking about completing the port of the 1.5 kernel. I've also 1.6.16 diffs on my pc532 and will start looking at them. It may be possible to upgrade fs and mm without having a full 1.5 kernel. It would be easier to have a full 1.5 kernel before attempting 1.6.16. I was thinking about one possible problem. AST has not distributed any diffs for the library. (/usr/src/lib/*) The reason (as I remember it) was that the library is part of the "new ANSI compiler" for the PC. That made me wonder if the library would be under the much more restrictive distribution along with the compiler. ($$$ for source.... $1000 for the full ack if you are an college/university, $10,000 for any one else.) I hope not, but I'm afraid that it will happen which makes minix of much less use. It might also make it illegal to distribute patches to the current library to make them look like the new library. I plan to ask this question about library source on comp.os.minix. Well, I'm way off the original topic. No, I don't see Minix dead on the pc532 yet. Development has "stalled" due to having a relative stable 1.5h and the ski season and some work on other software. I expect to see work resume soon on a 1.5 kernel and on 1.6.16. --Phil
culberts@hplwbc.hpl.hp.COM (Bruce Culbertson) (06/14/91)
>From: jkh@meepmeep.pcs.com (Jordan K. Hubbard): > Is MINIX on the PC532 dead? Heck no. In fact, I just put my pc532 back together for the first time since I moved in February. I also just got a new disk drive so I now have space to work on 1.5 and 1.6. Personally, I only play with play with computers in the summer and fall since I am busy with other things in the winter and spring. > Myself, I've pretty much settled on Mach for my future, but... I am all for Mach, BSD and GnuOS, if and when they become available at a price that is competitive with Minix. Bruce Culbertson
phil@cs.wwu.EDU (Phil Nelson) (06/14/91)
From: kls@ditka.Chicago.COM (Karl Swartz) I can't speak for anyone else but I've pretty much lost interest. I'm sorry to hear that! For example, when the ksh clone was posted I thought, "great!" But after wasting a few hours I came to realize that I also need ESTDIO to get ksh working. So, the next day I grudgingly went on a scavenger hunt to find this piece, and eventually got it on my machine. Then I tried to build it and found I needed to fiddle a bit. At that point I gave up, partly lack of time, partly lack of interest. I hope that this ksh experience did not cause you ignore the minix 1.5 hybrid distribution. whole thing in source form is an attraction. But I'd rather not be *forced* into this mold -- give me binaries or at least sources that will build with little more than a few, well documented config changes. .... I think you should find minix 1.5h in this class. Granted, we didn't distribute binaries for 1.5h, but it should be very easy to upgrade a working 1.3 to 1.5h. I even supplied binaries for gcc (cc1 etc) and for patch that would make the conversion to 1.5h work better. For now, my pc532 sits idle, mostly waiting for something to shake loose on the Unix front, while I spend my time more productively. Again, I'm sorry to hear that your pc532 sits idle. Mine is running minix 1.5h 24 hours/day and I can dial it from wwu, call wwu from the machine, etc... In fact, I'm about ready to post a clone of bc that is POSIX compatable and is better in several ways than the original UNIX bc. MOST of the development of it was done on my pc532 using minix 1.5h. I haven't taken the time to get uucp working yet due to other more interesting things. With the pc532 and minix 1.5h I finally have what I have wanted for quite a while, a low cost, home built, UNIX box! Sometimes is is hard to remember I'm working on Minix instead of a BSD or SYSV box. OK, I'll shut up now! But my answer to the original question ..... No way is minix dead! --Phil p.s. By the way, the following is my list of people running minix 1.5h. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a list of people known to be using minix 1.5h on their pc532s. Minix 1.5h is also knows as the 1.5 hybrid. Some of these have added things to the 1.5h version. Who email Bruce Culbertson <culberts@hplwbc.hpl.hp.com> Sverre Froyen <sverre@lars.Seri.GOV> Bdale Garbee <bdale@col.hp.com> Bob Hayes <bob@cs.wwu.edu> Jordan Hubbard <jkh@meepmeep.pcs.com> Robbin Johnson <rjohnson@nemesis> Jyrki Kuoppala <jkp@sauna.hut.fi> Eyal Lebedinsky <eyal@echo.canberra.edu.au> Phil Nelson <phil@cs.wwu.edu> Robert Vincent <bert@Shiva.COM> Known to be working toward minix 1.5h Randy Hyde <rhyde@ucrmath.ucr.edu> Jon Buller <jonb@vector.dallas.tx.us>
rhyde@hubbell.ucr.edu (randy hyde) (06/14/91)
Hopefully MINIX will arrive (for me) any day now. Given a choice of MINIX or nothing, I'd say that MINIX is not dead. UNIX/BSD/MACH, etc. might be nice, but I'm not about to wait for them. Actually, I'd prefer writing my own O/S in 32000 assembly language (so, you think I'm sick, so what? I enjoy 32000 assembly language). I'd like to use MINIX as a model. I might be willing to write the kernel in assembly (FM, MM, DM, PM, and other trinkets), but I'm not about to rewrite all the utilities in *any* language. MINIX sources make an excellent specification for this project. *** Randy Hyde
bdale@col.hp.COM (Bdale Garbee) (06/14/91)
> This is a list of people known to be using minix 1.5h on their pc532s. > Minix 1.5h is also knows as the 1.5 hybrid. Some of these have added > things to the 1.5h version. > Who email add Fred Schneider fls@gag.com John Conner conner@empire.com They both came over last Sunday, and we cloned my system onto theirs. Got a couple of questions... - how does one make getty work? I figured out that the thrashing was the result of no /etc/gettydefs, but I have no idea what to put in my now-empty file to set up a simple modem rotary, or whatever. I grok bsd modemcap, and HP-UX gettydefs, but it appears I'm missing something? - which uucp do folks (Karl?) have running? I've played with the one on plains, and while I've got it working fine when my other system calls the pc532, outbound "dials" die in mid-session with protocol errors. I've got both hdb and bsd sources around, am tempted to port the bsd4.3reno uucp, but seems like real work. - is it possible to get smail2.5, or something else, to do the minimal stuff necessary to treat all addresses in '@' notation, but recognize that *anything* not local should be uucp'ed to a neighboring machine? We do this inside HP, and it'll cause me much less grief if I don't introduce '!' addresses any more than necessary. Thanks also to everyone who offered sources for the Dallas no-slot clock parts. Since I didn't need anything else right then, I ordered a pair from JDR, and Fred and I now have clocks... Bdale
sverre@lars.Seri.GOV (Sverre Froyen) (06/14/91)
>Got a couple of questions... > > - how does one make getty work? I figured out that the thrashing was > the result of no /etc/gettydefs, but I have no idea what to put in > my now-empty file to set up a simple modem rotary, or whatever. I > grok bsd modemcap, and HP-UX gettydefs, but it appears I'm missing > something? I have modified init to call getty with the character put in /etc/ttys as a speed labels (for the initial speed). I include a patch below. I have not, however, managed to get the speed changes working. I suspect we need some changes in the tty driver to accomplish that. > > - which uucp do folks (Karl?) have running? I've played with the one > on plains, and while I've got it working fine when my other system > calls the pc532, outbound "dials" die in mid-session with protocol > errors. I've got both hdb and bsd sources around, am tempted to > port the bsd4.3reno uucp, but seems like real work. I use Karl's (?) uucp port but have not tried dialing out. The original comments state that dialouts would not work because of missing hooks in the tty driver. Sverre -- Sverre Froyen sverre@seri.gov, sunpeaks!seri!sverre Patch for init.c (note that tabs have been converted to spaces): sverre@abbor(12)$ diff -c dist/init.c init.c *** dist/init.c Fri Feb 15 07:58:06 1991 --- init.c Mon May 13 19:59:25 1991 *************** *** 106,111 **** --- 106,112 ---- char name[8]; /* name of this tty */ int flags; /* sg_flags field for this tty */ int speed; /* sg_ispeed for this tty */ + char label[2]; /* label (2nd character in ttys) */ }; struct slotent slots[PIDSLOTS]; /* init table of ttys and pids */ *************** *** 258,263 **** --- 259,266 ---- if('a' <= *p && *p <= 'a' + NPARAMSETS) { /* a serial line? */ slotp->flags |= uart[*p - 'a'].flags; slotp->speed = uart[*p - 'a'].baud; + slotp->label[0] = *p; + slotp->label[1] = 0; } else if (*p != '0') { while(*p++ != '\n') ; /* skip the rest of the line */ continue; *************** *** 323,334 **** * the first digit in /etc/ttys to '2'. '1' still means LOGIN. */ if (slotp->onflag == 2) { ! if (linenr == 0) { ! execle(GETTY, GETTY, line, "-k", "CONSOLE", (char *)0, ! env); ! } else { ! execle(GETTY, GETTY, line, (char *)0, env); ! } } /* Try to exec various logins. */ --- 326,332 ---- * the first digit in /etc/ttys to '2'. '1' still means LOGIN. */ if (slotp->onflag == 2) { ! execle(GETTY, GETTY, line, slotp->label, (char *)0, env); } /* Try to exec various logins. */ Here is my gettydefs file (all speeds rotate bask to themselves) Note that spaces around the speed characters (`f', `d', etc.) are significant, i.e., do NOT put spaces around these characters. sverre@abbor(19)$ cat gettydefs f# SANE B9600 # SANE B9600 # Abbor login: #f d# SANE B2400 # SANE B2400 # Abbor login: #d s# SANE B19200 # SANE B19200 # Abbor login: #s v# SANE B38400 # SANE B38400 # Abbor login: #v
charles@thurse.thurse.MN.ORG (06/15/91)
I'm sending this to news@daver.bungi.com since my news server is
down. For me, MINIX on the PC532 is far from dead, but I have
noticed that there has been a lull in postings announcing progress
on improvements for MINIX/PC532. I would like anyone who knows of
the following subjects to give us an update on their current status:
1. Tape driver for MINIX/PC532 for cartridge tapes.
2. uucp and smail. (I think someone mentioned having this working.
has it been posted somewhere and I missed it?)
3. news software (i.e., rn or something like that.)
4. gdb (wasn't someone, perhaps Sverre, working on this?)
I am working on tape drive support for the monitor. I've got an
Archive 2060s, and I've got a program which will read one batch of
sectors from the drive or write a batch to the drive. However, when
it finishes a read, the program leaves the access light lit on the
drive, and I haven't figured out why yet. Bruce C. has suggested
that the drive is disconnecting, but I don't get a disconnect message,
and I think (having only had a glimpse of the docs on the drive) that
the default configuration is non-disconnecting mode. Anybody have any
knowledge of these things? I'm trying to wangle a set of documentation
on the drive, but it's not easy to get one from the local distributer.
When it's running, it will be available.
Finally, you can add my name to the list of happy 1.5h users. It is quite
suitable, in my opinion, for developing the applications I've mentioned.
Charles Rennolet
charles@thurse.MN.ORGsverre@lars.Seri.GOV (Sverre Froyen) (06/16/91)
> > I would like anyone who knows of >the following subjects to give us an update on their current status: > >2. uucp and smail. (I think someone mentioned having this working. > has it been posted somewhere and I missed it?) Karls' port of Minix uucp works fine as long as you don't ask it to dial out. >4. gdb (wasn't someone, perhaps Sverre, working on this?) I believe Jyrki has this working (with the exception of breakpoints (?)). Sverre -- Sverre Froyen sverre@seri.gov, sunpeaks!seri!sverre
evans@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (Bruce.Evans) (06/16/91)
In article <m0jno75-00000DC@ditka.Chicago.COM> kls@ditka.Chicago.COM (Karl Swartz) writes: >For example, when the ksh clone was posted I thought, "great!" But >after wasting a few hours I came to realize that I also need ESTDIO to >get ksh working. So, the next day I grudgingly went on a scavenger >hunt to find this piece, and eventually got it on my machine. Then I >tried to build it and found I needed to fiddle a bit. At that point I >gave up, partly lack of time, partly lack of interest. Why stop at a weak ksh clone? I use bash 1.08. Sure, it required fiddling to get it to work. The diffs are 12K (plus probably a few hundred K of accuulated Minix customizations. It's hard to know exactly which ones bash depends on). -- Bruce Evans evans@syd.dit.csiro.au
athos@eyrie.img.COM.AU (David Burren) (06/16/91)
In article <676992757.7756@eyrie.img.com.au>, bdale@col.hp.com (Bdale Garbee) writes: > > This is a list of people known to be using minix 1.5h on their pc532s. > > Minix 1.5h is also knows as the 1.5 hybrid. Some of these have added > > things to the 1.5h version. > > > Who email > > add > > Fred Schneider fls@gag.com > John Conner conner@empire.com Also, Grant Waldram gtw@img.com.au Marc Boschma marcb@img.com.au These have been running for some weeks. Marc's machine is "ligita.img.com.au". Unfortunately, a drive problem on Friday has put the machine out of action for a while :-( The drive is a Miniscribe that has been playing up a bit, and none of us there on Friday could remember the command to send that took the drive out of that error condition (it remembers it over powerdowns). I think Grant's solved this one before, so hopefully all is not lost. > - is it possible to get smail2.5, or something else, to do the minimal > stuff necessary to treat all addresses in '@' notation, but recognize > that *anything* not local should be uucp'ed to a neighboring machine? > We do this inside HP, and it'll cause me much less grief if I don't > introduce '!' addresses any more than necessary. I ported smail2.5 onto ligita.img.com.au very easily. Mind you, the version that I was porting is one that I'd previously ported to Xenix-286, so most porting hassles would have been fixed then. The port is currently inaccessible on Marc's disk, or I'd offer to send it to you. Hopefully the disk will be going again within a week or so, but you'd probably be better off porting from the standard distribution anyway. A question about the filesystem: How much throughput are people getting out of FS? We estimate we're getting around 60 kB/sec. Has anyone thought about getting the FS to group reads and writes of consecutive blocks together? SCSI drives can handle this, and it could reduce the overhead in handling each block? We were starting to look at this when Marc's drive fell over :-( Also, we have a Wangtek QIC-24 drive with an Emulex MT02 SCSI controller board, so if someone gets a tape driver working before we get around to trying, we'd be grateful if you could share it with us. ___________________________________________________________________________ David Burren (Athos) img Consultants Systems Development (general dogs-body) G.P.O. Box 3304GG Melbourne, VIC 3001 Email: athos@img.com.au Australia Phone: +61 3 819 4554
m937290@usna.NAVY.MIL (Midn. Norman R. Solis) (06/18/91)
For any interested parties, I aquired a couple of the math coprocessors and ICU's for a PC532 project I WAS going to start. Alas, things being the way they are, I won't get to start it. If anyone needs some FPUs or ICUs REALLY CHEAP, I'd be more than willing to let them go. Make me an offer. -Rich Solis N Richard Solis m937290@n1.usna.navy.mil GO NAVY! USNA 33rd Company m937290@midn.ecs.usna.navy.mil BEAT ARMY! Annapolis, MD 21412 (301) 267-5001 United States Naval Academy - Class of 1993 -- N Richard Solis m937290@n1.usna.navy.mil GO NAVY! USNA 33rd Company m937290@midn.ecs.usna.navy.mil BEAT ARMY! Annapolis, MD 21412 (301) 267-5001 United States Naval Academy - Class of 1993
jkp@cs.hut.fi (Jyrki Kuoppala) (06/18/91)
In article <9106160128.AA02921@lars.seri.gov>, sverre@lars (Sverre Froyen) writes: [ gdb ] >I believe Jyrki has this working (with the exception of breakpoints (?)). Yes, and even breakpoints work sometimes but sometimes they just crash the machine. It's somewhere on nic.funet.fi pub/misc/pc532, I don't remember where. //Jyrki
sverre@lars.Seri.GOV (Sverre Froyen) (06/19/91)
> > pan uld like anyone who knows of >the following subjects to give us an update on their current status: > >2. uucp and smail. (I think someone mentioned having this working. > has it b, raposted somewhere and I missed it?) Karls' port of Minix uucp works fine as long as yly hldon't ask it to dial out. >4. gdb (wasn't someone, perMessrs Sverre, working on this?) I believe Jyrki has News soworking (with the exception of breakpoints (?)). Sverre -- Sverre Froyen sverre@seri.gov, sunpeaks!se
rickr@virtech.UUCP (Rick Rodman) (06/21/91)
Rich: > For any interested parties, I aquired a couple of the math coprocessors > and ICU's for a PC532 project I WAS going to start. Alas, things being > the way they are, I won't get to start it. If anyone needs some FPUs or > ICUs REALLY CHEAP, I'd be more than willing to let them go. Make me an > offer. > > -Rich Solis Are the FPUs PGA or PLCC? Would you take $50 for an FPU? Rick Rodman uunet!virtech!rickr "Yesterday's Tomorrow is Here Today"