conklin@msudoc.UUCP (05/01/87)
I have a question, maybe someone from Atari can answer it, or maybe not. Is Atari purposely killing the 8-bits? This question is, for the most part, brought on by the recent "high" prices put on the XE machines. Coupled with the already low ST prices it's obvious that the decision to go with either an XE or an ST is being made for the buyer. Other things that seem telltale are A.) The "game" title was slapped on the new XE machine, B.) The 3.5" drive and 80 column card do not exist. (Sorry gang, but unless I can _buy_ it, it doesn't exist. That's only fair. I dont buy things with promised money, and I can't purchase promised products.) C.) When ICD wanted more Parallel bus information to build the MIO box, they had to sign non-disclosure agreements. A _FAR_ cry from the open-architecture of Atari past which even distributed the source code to the OS, D.) Atari's recent telling the guy who did the ST's 8-bit emulator that he couldn't touch the OS code. None of these events are the actions of a company with an interest in the 8-bit's future. That's fine, since they aren't making as much on the 8bit as they are on an ST, but I'd like to know if this is the committed direction. I, and something like 2 or 3 million other people have hundreds (or thousands!) of dollars tied up in 8-bit hardware, and would like to think that if Atari is no longer interested in marketing the machine, they would at least release it to the public domain to allow third party small time vendors support the existing owners of the machine or build compatible upgrades. Like the Commodore-128 or the Coco-3, a new machine that would only really interest existing owners, but would give them a 'full power' machine that they can keep their existing software and periperhals going on. Terry Conklin ihnp4!msudoc!conklin The Club (517) 372-3131 now w/2400 conklin@mich-state.edu The Club II (313) 334-8877
appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L. Appelbaum) (05/01/87)
In article <1404@msudoc.UUCP>, conklin@msudoc.UUCP (Terry Conklin) writes: > The 3.5" drive and 80 column card do not exist. > When ICD wanted more Parallel bus information to build the MIO box, > they had to sign non-disclosure agreements. As for the 80 column card I saw one working at the Allentown Atari Expo! Recently there was a posting on GEnie from one of the ATARI Base SYSOPS concernig the XEP-80. He said it is in production. He didn't say when it should be out. Also the 1200baud modem it getting ready to come out. As for the 3.5" drive I don't remeber hearing an OFFICIAL announment just a lot of rumors. Now the non-disclosure agreement is a standard form for all companies. Just because the old Atari didn't make people sign them doesn't mean the NEW Atari should do the same. All the agreement says is that the info we give is not to be given out. Now I'm sure if you had a valid reason for the info they would be glad to give it you. I really don't think ATARI is killing the 8bit. Things just take time. There are new version of AtariWriter Plus coming out for the XEP-80. Also if you think they're killing it, how about giving some suggestions. All I've seen is complaints! -- Marc L. Appelbaum Arpa:appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu Bitnet:appelbaum@zodiac.bitnet Uucp:rutgers!topaz!appelbau GEnie: M.APPELBAUM
hans@umd5.umd.edu (Hans Breitenlohner) (05/02/87)
In article <11606@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L. Appelbaum) writes: >..... Now I'm sure if you had a valid >reason for the info they would be glad to give it you. > A very kind and pious thought, but the fact that nobody (except Ian Chadwick, the author of "Mapping the Atari") has been able to get listings or documentation for the XL operating system would appear to be cause for disagreement with this.
neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) (05/12/87)
We come again to that perpetual question: is Atari intent on killing the
8-bits?
One way to answer that would be to give you a tour of our warehouse. If you
could see the number of 8-bit computers and software in inventory, you'd
know we are highly motivated to keep the line going.
Regarding the new XE Game System, which on the first glance is a slap in
the face to those who know how powerful the 8-bitters are -- this system is
purely a strategic move on our part. In order to keep the 8-bit line going,
we must do two things:
1. Get the computers available in more stores, and
2. Get new software developed for them.
Software is not being developed by and large because of problem #1. So
which stores do we go to? The mass merchants, who sold the bulk of the
hundreds of thousands (not, unfortunately, millions) of Atari 8-bit
computers out there, are currently retreating from the computer business.
K-Mart carries NO computers. Ditto for Montgomery Wards. And for J.C.
Penney's.
On the other hand, these same stores are doing a fabulous business in game
systems like Nintendo, Sega, and, of course, Atari.
The solution, from a business point of view, was to develop a product that
would be appealing to the mass merchants (and also to the public which buys
there), one that also accomplishes the corporate objective of revitalizing
the 8-bit line.
So what we have with the XE Game System is essentially a 65XE in disguise.
Internally it contains 64K of RAM, the standard OS and BASIC in ROM, two
joystick ports, SIO port, etc. It is completely compatible with the current
8-bit line, including software.
Physically it is more appealing to those who don't want a computer but who
do want to play games. The main console simply has the 4 console keys from
the XE (Start, Select, Option, and Reset), plus the cartridge port and
connectors. The keyboard is a separate unit which plugs into the console.
When someone buys the XE Game System, they get the complete package --
console, keyboard, light gun, and 3 programs (including a new version of
Sublogic's Flight Simulator including scenery, all on a single cartridge).
We expect stores to do a great business in these. We'll make available the
current library of cartridge software, plus we're converting some disk
programs into cartridge format for this system. As time goes by, we expect
to see dramatic increases in sales for 8-bit software -- hopefully, this
will also include practical applications as well as games. This should in
turn encourage developers to create new titles for the 8-bits.
Once things get moving again in the mass merchants, the current supply of
8-bit computers should also get moving through the dealers -- after all,
they make a better value than the game systems, and take up less space.
So, those few of you out there who are looking at Atari management as the
evil group who are plotting to quash the 8-bit line, you have it all wrong.
We're trying hard to keep things moving forward. Without the distribution
and the software, no amount of advertising and new hardware development
could work. The XE Game System is our best hope to keep things moving.
--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinionconklin@msudoc.UUCP (Terry Conklin) (05/23/87)
Well, being as everything makes perfect sense, I am more than happy to see my hypothesis wrong, and that indeed, Atari intends to ride the "diverse product line" out in entirety. I didn't manage to get all these responses. Our newsfeed died for the last two week so most of the replies, curtosey of Neil, I got by reading a friend's mail of a digest of the net from his dad. Thus, I didn't see anything regarding three things in particular that seemed particularly important. What about the 1200 baud SIO <> RS232 modem, 80-column board, and 3.5" drive? Some comments were made about the 3.5" drive, but were they intended as "official?" If so, the availability of the 3.5" drive would have several benefits unmentioned. First and foremost, ST compatibility. The 810 and 1050 use IBM compatible controllers (we use a PC and a TRS for Atari backups occasionally.) and the 8 bit could easily directly swap disks with the ST with a program on the ST to recognize 256-byte sectors. Second, a "new" release of old technology creates a mental image of a stopped machine. IBM is forcing 3.5" drives upon the world. A 3.5" release would bring a "new technology" image to the slightly dusty 8 bit line. Lastly of course, higher speed access is an addition the 8bits -always- needed. It would be simple to have an 8bit 3.5" support U.S. Doubler compatibility mode and thus go to 54K baud SIO. That, combined with the fast track-to-track time would do WONDERS for software like Medit, which is a great editor, but was clearly desgined by someone NOT relying on 810s for storage. If Atari perceives the 3.5" XE drive demand to be low, make an arrangement to have it manufactured, small scale, by a third party. With Atari buying power (90% of the parts are already being bought in bulk now. Add a nice CPU to a ST drive and presto!) and 3rd party assembly, it might not be a -really- cheap drive, but then again, ST drives aren't -really- cheap anyhow! Technical enhancements to the 8bit design abound. Many have been sold already. An uprated 8bit would be a fairly simple "patch" engineering job. Still have the 1450XLD design lying around? I know people who were willing to kill their first born for a 1450XLD. How about putting a 256K XE (And make it compatible with the popular 256K XL upgrade. Why reinvent the wheel?,) an XM301 card, and a ST 3.5" drive in a case? All current parts, and you could prototype it in 2 weeks. It's not just a theory. We've BUILT xm301's around here into 256K XLs. It's a 30 minute retrofit. It'd be a 30 second plug in on a line. Perhaps Atari needs to hire some of these long time Atari owners. Having a machine for 5 or 6 years gives you ideas. And not just dreams, but popular patches made with components already in-house. In the wild dream category, we're still working on our 200% speed 65802 XL. Even this isn't just a dream, it's a single-card plug in CPU replacement. Uprating Antic is a dream unless you have the right tools. Forgive me. I don't like to get hopes up, but this is the kind of stuff we -have-, or we can do in our spare time. It's just I think we'd (we referring to the community of Atari dealers, owners, and Usenet people that keep adding to the machine) like to see it on the shelves, so that OTHER people know about it. Every time someone buys an Apple IIc, I shed a tear. Terry Conklin ihnp4!msudoc!conklin Potentially looking for employment, (Can you put a Sun 4 on my desk?) See for yourself @ The Club (517) 372-3131 3/12/24