kevin@voder.UUCP (The Last Bugfighter) (03/11/88)
I read something recently which points out a possibly serious problem
for some users of Atari's new XF551 disk drive. This is from an article
published in the March '88 newsletter of the Bay Area Atari Users Group
(BAAUG), I should point out that I do not own an XF551 and haven't been
able to confirm this problem but the article sounds correct.
When non-Atari users buy 5 1/4-inch floppy disks they have to purchase
either soft or hard sectored disks depending on their drive. If you look
at the disk you will see a small hole in the envelope next to the large
center hole on the side of the write-protect notch. This is the index hole.
If you now rotate the disk inside its envelope a small hole in the mag-
netic medium will appear. If the disk is soft sectored there will be one
hole, if hard sectored their will be several, usually 10 or 16 depending
on the number of hard sectors it uses. Soft sectored disks use this index
hole as the starting point for the software created sectors when formatting
a disk. Hard sectored disks use the holes to mark where each sector starts.
Atari users don't have to worry about this as neither the 810 or the 1050
drive have the LED sensor which reads this index hole(s) so they can use
any type of 5 1/4-inch floppy disk.
But the XF551 does read this index hole. If you flip the disk over, like
if you were going to write to the back side of the disk, the index hole is
now on the wrong side of the disk and the index sensor will be unable to
read it so you cannot write to the disk when it's in upside down.
So what? It's a double sided drive, you're already writing to both sides
of the disk so why turn it upside down? Well, what if you've got Print Shop?
Print Shop REQUIRES you to insert the disk upside down so it can read the
back side, but in an XF551 YOU CAN'T!. Plus, Atari 8-bit software is hard
enough to find as it is and when you do it's usually on the BACK side of a
Commodore disk! These disks will not work in an XF551!
Seems that this makes the XF551 a good second drive but not much good if
you've got a lot of 'flippy' software, unless you modify the drive so you can
switch the index sensor on/off manualy. If anyone has an XF551 I would
appreciate it if they could confirm or disprove this.
--
Kevin Thompson {ucbvax,pyramid,nsc}!voder!kevin
"It's a sort of threat, you see. I've never been very good at them
myself but I'm told they can be very effective."lackey@Alliant.COM (Stan Lackey) (03/12/88)
In article <3075@voder.UUCP> kevin@voder.nsc.com.UUCP (The Last Bugfighter) writes: > I read something recently which points out a possibly serious problem >for some users of Atari's new XF551 disk drive. >Hard sectored disks use the holes to mark where each sector starts. >... you cannot write to the disk when it's in upside down. I can suggest a potential solution to this potential problem. Suppose the 551 used soft-sectoring when in 810 or 1050 mode, and hard-sectoring when in 551 mode. The 551 would ignore output from the LED and thus be fully backward-compatible. -Stan
cfchiesa@bsu-cs.UUCP (Christopher Chiesa) (03/15/88)
In article <3075@voder.UUCP>, kevin@voder.UUCP (The Last Bugfighter) writes: > > I read something recently which points out a possibly serious problem > for some users of Atari's new XF551 disk drive. > [definition/explanation of what the "index hole" is] > ... the XF551 does read this index hole. If you flip the disk over, like > if you were going to write to the back side of the disk, the index hole is > now on the wrong side of the disk and the index sensor will be unable to > read it so you cannot write to the disk when it's in upside down. Okay, netsters, here's an idea for you. Many of my computer buddies used to use a "notch punch" to create a "write-permission notch" on the "other" edge of a single-sided disk, so that they could "convert" them to double-sided disks and write to the back of the media. Since it's the presence or absence of an index hole in the disk SLEEVE, rather than the rotating MEDIA, it seems to me it should be possible to punch a second set of index holes in the SLEEVE, in the "same place on the other side of the central hole," so that when the disk was flipped over there'd still be an in- dex hole in line with the LED sensor in the drive. What say, tech hackers? It seems to me that this would be a better solution than disabling the drive hardware hole-sensor, because isn't that used for TIMING, and mightn't bypas- sing it screw up one's disk reads and writes? As far as how to actually do this, a friend of mine has suggested everything from "a real thin hole punch that could slip between the sleeve and the media" (after all, no data is stored, as I understand it, any closer to the disk cen- ter than the index hole, so if you scratch it, so what), to "take the sleeve apart, punch it, and put it back together." Maybe if we all b*tch loudly enough (letters, petitions, etc.) we could get disks MANUFACTURED with two sets of holes in the sleeves? Betcha a cookie the "flippy" software makers will come out with them that way sooner or later; maybe we could make it "sooner" and save everybody a whole mess o' annoyance! I'll be very interested to hear what the Net has to say about this one. Chris -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Chris Chiesa <><><><><> <> {ihpn4|seismo}!{iuvax|pur-ee}!bsu-cs!cfchiesa <> <> cfchiesa@bsu-cs.UUCP <> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
rjung@castor.usc.edu (Robert Jung) (03/16/88)
In article <2361@bsu-cs.UUCP> cfchiesa@bsu-cs.UUCP (Christopher Chiesa) writes: >In article <3075@voder.UUCP>, kevin@voder.UUCP (The Last Bugfighter) writes: >> I read something recently which points out a possibly serious problem >> for some users of Atari's new XF551 disk drive. >> ... the XF551 does read this index hole. If you flip the disk over, like >> if you were going to write to the back side of the disk, the index hole is >> now on the wrong side of the disk and the index sensor will be unable to >> read it so you cannot write to the disk when it's in upside down. > >Okay, netsters, here's an idea for you. Many of my computer buddies used to >use a "notch punch" to create a "write-permission notch" on the "other" edge >of a single-sided disk, so that they could "convert" them to double-sided Right, old trick. >... it seems to me it should be possible to punch a second >set of index holes in the SLEEVE, in the "same place on the other side of the >central hole," so that when the disk was flipped over there'd still be an in- >dex hole in line with the LED sensor in the drive. What say, tech hackers? >... > >As far as how to actually do this, a friend of mine has suggested everything >from "a real thin hole punch that could slip between the sleeve and the media" >(after all, no data is stored, as I understand it, any closer to the disk cen- >ter than the index hole, so if you scratch it, so what), to "take the sleeve >apart, punch it, and put it back together." Well, you could always inspect those 5.25" disks when you first buy them, and if they don't have the hole, you can use a notebook "hole-puncher" to do the job... I use one for making my printouts fit in my 3-ring binder, and I would think it'd work on floppies just fine. The only thing is, you would probably do it BEFORE you format the disk, so that any damage/disturbance done (if any) is negated. >Maybe if we all b*tch loudly enough (letters, petitions, etc.) we could get >disks MANUFACTURED with two sets of holes in the sleeves? Betcha a cookie the >"flippy" software makers will come out with them that way sooner or later; >maybe we could make it "sooner" and save everybody a whole mess o' annoyance! Aren't these already avaliable? Can't you look at the packaging for the disks and see if they're "double-sided/timing hole" disks? --R.J. B-) ______________________________________________________________________________ Bitnet: rjung@castor.usc.edu "Who needs an Amiga?" = == = = == = Power WithOUT the Price = == = ===== == ===== Just because it's 8-bits doesn't make it obsolete. ==== == ====
nelson@kodak.UUCP (bruce nelson) (03/16/88)
There are "flippy" disks available with the holes punched as described. I saw some a while ago at a local store, but haven't seen them recently. I do remember they were on the expensive side. Bruce D. Nelson | UUCP: ...!rutgers!rochester!kodak!hawkeye!nelson Eastman Kodak Company | Voice: 716-726-7890 901 Elmgrove Road | Company Mail: Dept 420 Technical Support Services Rochester, NY 14650 |
) (03/16/88)
I can actually remember to have held in hand a manufactured disk,
with two index holes some time ago. Whether they are still
manufactured or whether that was a manufacture 'bug', I don't know.
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--------------------------------------------------------------njd@ihlpm.ATT.COM (DiMasi) (03/17/88)
> In article <2361@bsu-cs.UUCP> cfchiesa@bsu-cs.UUCP (Christopher Chiesa) writes: >>In article <3075@voder.UUCP>, kevin@voder.UUCP (The Last Bugfighter) writes: >>> I read something recently which points out a possibly serious problem >>> .... >>... it seems to me it should be possible to punch a second >>set of index holes in the SLEEVE, in the "same place on the other side of the >>central hole," so that when the disk was flipped over there'd still be an in- >>dex hole in line with the LED sensor in the drive. What say, tech hackers? >>... > ... > if they don't have the hole, you can use a notebook "hole-puncher" to do the > job... I use one for making my printouts fit in my 3-ring binder, and I would > ... I remember (distinctly, because I thought about buying one) a gadget that punches a "side 2 index hole" (or whatever you call it), supposedly without damaging the disk. It was advertised in ANALOG (I think, possibly in Compute! instead/as well) as a way to use the 2nd side of double-sided disks (I recall that when I first started buying floppies, the 2-sided ones were all that I could find in stores anyway) with single-sided drives. It was called "Nibble Notch II," and was a variant of the "Nibble Notch" gadget that punches a "side 2 write-permit notch." (Both of these gadgets do _that_ I believe.) It seems to me that this might be better than a notebook-paper punch for the disks, even if it is not as wonderful as claimed (at least you get the write- permit notch if your floppy doesn't have one - I'm talking about _blank_ disks here, but the index hole is needed for write- protected disks too of course). To summarize, check your favorite Atari 8-bit mag's for ads for "Nibble Notch II," it may be just what you (future) XF551 owners are looking for (if this "problem" is real - sounds like it to me). Nick DiMasi Uni'q Digital Technologies (Fox Valley Software subsidiary; ^ working as a contractor at AT&T Bell Labs in Naperville, IL) ( | this is an accent mark, supposed to replace the dot over the 'i')