bill@wpi.wpi.edu (Bill Marrs) (09/30/89)
Lets face some facts. 8-bit machines now sell for rediculously low prices. There is no demand for them at all. They are good mainly for playing games, and old games at that because software companies are beginning to drop Atari 8-bit versions from there catalogs. What do expect? Antic IS doomed. :-( buy a new computer. Mac or Amiga or Atari ST, you will feel so much better. -bill
wilmott@topaz.rutgers.edu (Ray Wilmott) (09/30/89)
Bill Marrs writes...
>buy a new computer....you'll feel so much better.
That's okay Bill...my wallet will feel much better if I don't. I came
REAL close to upgrading a little over a year ago, when it occured to
me - my Atari 8-bit still does what I need it to. Telecommunications?
Works great. Bobterm (and Express) are easier to use than ANY term
program I have yet seen on ANY other machine. Word Processing? Good
enough for *occasional* use (ie-a term paper now and then, or maybe a
letter). Games? Not too many new ones, but there are a few, and
there's more older games than I'm likely to *ever* master. And that
about sums up *my* personal needs. Sure, I am humbled when I see the
power of the IIcx I use at work, or the great new game my friend just
got on his ST. But I ask myself...is it worth shelling out $1000-$5000
for new hardware, PLUS hundreds or thousands more for the basic
software packages that I'll want/need for the machine, just for some
fancy graphics and improved speed? (Plus have to learn all the little
tricks/secrets/idiosyncracies of yet another machine). In my book, NO!
At least not yet...I'll stick to my 8-bit for my own home use for
another year or two, thank you!
-Raybill@wpi.wpi.edu (Bill Marrs) (10/01/89)
In article <Sep.29.22.13.13.1989.18153@topaz.rutgers.edu> wilmott@topaz.rutgers.edu (Ray Wilmott) writes: >... And that about sums up *my* personal needs... I think we both have very personal needs. >...is it worth shelling out $1000-$5000 for new hardware, PLUS hundreds >or thousands more for the basic software packages that I'll want/need >for the machine, just for some fancy graphics and improved speed? I think so. Those 'fancy graphics' include things like photographic quality pictures, real-time animation, direct video input editing, etc... As for the improved speed, The difference in running a mandelbrot generating program on an atari-8bit versus a Mac II is measured like: Atari 8-bit: 3 days, Mac II: 3 minutes. Seriously, I used a public domain Mandelbrot generator on a Mac II that used 256 colors and 640x480 pixels and it took under 5 minutes to draw the same region and iterations as it took my atari 800xl to do in 3 days with 4 colors and 192x159 pixels. ( I realize this can somewhat to using basic on the atari, but still...) >...I'll stick to my 8-bit for my own home use for another year or >two, thank you! Have fun, I would rather use my school's computers, they are faster and easier to use. I used to bring my 800xl up to school so that I could play games on it, but now I am play on others computers and leave my 800xl in the closet. Anyone out there interested in making me an offer for a 800xl with 1050 disk drive P:R:connection interface, small thermal printer, and 100's of games...It has to be worth my while to go to the trouble of going home and getting it out of my closet. -=bill
wilmott@topaz.rutgers.edu (Ray Wilmott) (10/01/89)
>3 minutes on a MacII.....3 days on an 8-bit
I *fully* agree. There are many things that are just impossible or
ridiculous to do an the Atari 8-bit. Drawing a full-color Mandelbrot
set. Doing desktop publishing (beyond a *real* simple newsletter).
Heavy duty word processing. Real C programming. Hi-res picture
scanning. You'll get *no* argument from me on such things. Then again,
I said I'll keep my Atari for *my* *personal* needs. It's *more* than
adequate for typing up a simple letter. It works fine for *simple*
spreadsheet needs. It plays *thousands* of games. And in the area of
telecommunications (which is about 75% of my needs), I *DEFY* you to
show me an easier to use program than BobTerm. [I've seen friends'
IBMs in action. I've seen friends' St's in action. I use Mac term
programs regularly at work. *NONE* are as straight-forward and
*easy* to use as BobTerm on my 8-bit. NOW IF ONLY SOMEONE WOULD MAKE
AN 80 COLUMN (VIA SOFTWARE!) MODULE FOR IT!!!]
If you *NEED* the "fancy graphics" and faster speed of a 16-bit, why
are you reading this????? UPGRADE! If you don't NEED it, why spend
thousands of dollars?
And if you are so against Atari 8-bits, why are you reading this
net?!?Ordania-DM@cup.portal.com (Charles K Hughes) (10/02/89)
Actually Bill...I won't feel better. I might get to like the new computer but it won't be the same. All my software will be useless (sorry, I won't buy an ST, I don't like Jack), most of my equipment will be useless and it will take at least a month and a few hundred dollars (for books) just to get to a reasonable level of proficiency with the thing. (My reasonable level is considerably higher than most computer users.) Yes, I know, the 8-bit is dead but I'll keep my dreams until the 386 comes down in price. Charles Hughes @cup.portal.com
briann@tekigm2.MEN.TEK.COM (Brian Nakata) (10/02/89)
In article <Sep.30.22.15.31.1989.19360@topaz.rutgers.edu> wilmott@topaz.rutgers.edu (Ray Wilmott) writes: >[...] >If you *NEED* the "fancy graphics" and faster speed of a 16-bit, why >are you reading this????? UPGRADE! If you don't NEED it, why spend >thousands of dollars? > >And if you are so against Atari 8-bits, why are you reading this >net?!? I think that you hit the nail smack-dab on the head, Ray. This discussion of obsolesence is ridiculous. Yes, we 8-bitters know that our machines are outdated, but we never said that they are the best computer in the world now or that they meet everyone's needs. For those who don't like using their 8-bits or are ashamed of owning them or have them in the closet, WHY ARE YOU READING A NEWSGROUP DEVOTED TO ATARI 8-BIT COMPUTERS????? Geez, doesn't that make sense? Brian
kstevens@qarry.enet.dec.com (Not on a REAL system) (10/02/89)
>WHY ARE YOU READING A NEWSGROUP DEVOTED TO >ATARI 8-BIT COMPUTERS????? Geez, doesn't that make sense? > >Brian Well, I don't own an atari 8-bit nor would I. The reason I read this newsgroup is because my roommate has one....... although he is looking to upgrade to an ST. ----------------------------------------------------------------- This is my opinion only. Ken
roger@tippy.uucp (10/03/89)
I'll give you $100 for everything (you pay the shipping.) Let me know if you're interested. tippy!roger@newton.physics.purdue.edu
usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (10/08/89)
Really now folks, any talk of "upgrading" your 8-bit is seriously out of line. The Atari 8bit's capabilities are unique, as is the software that came with it and the peripherals. Too often have I heard talk of "upgrading." It seems worthwhile to note that you don't "upgrade" as much as "crossgrade" in that you can get a new machine, like a shiny new Amiga 2000 with 4096-color mode and 4-channel DMAing digital sound, but you still wont have M.U.L.E., or instant-on peripherals, or modems with term soft- ware built in. Ever try and build a diskless terminal? The Atari 8-bit with it's built-in TV support and built-in no-disk-needed option on the 1030 is GREAT for travelling. And these specifics aren't important. There will always be tons of programs that you have used and hardware options you have pu together on any quality machine that are more or less unreplacable. And 850 for instance - just try and find another machine with 4 serial ports. (5 if you add an R-verter) You can get it on an IBM clone easily enough, for a price. My suggestion is to KEEP your 8-bit when you get a new machine. It wont get any slower, and you can always use a redundant computer. You get all of it's functionality and the new machines too, if you even bother to get a new machine. You want "obsolete?" I'm logged on right now with a TRS-80 Model I, granted with triple-clock speed. It's been online as The Club BBS since 1980 - switched ON, running, with the world using it for over 75,000 hours. It still runs the board, and it's SITILL my primary word processor because, to date, no other computer supports the C-Itoh Prowriter in Proportional font mode properly! Likewise, no other computer has had binary/hex tools (like this term program I'm using, or disk editors) that came close. The machine serves a distinct purpose, as do the other TRS-80s, IBMs, Atari 8-bits and the Unix workstations that live here. (The Amiga is gone, sniff.) You could, of course, try and duplicate all the functionality on any single machine, but it' would A) cost a fortune, B) be limited by the constraints of the machine architecture, C) be real tough for more than one person to use! and D) probably never be as functional. Ever try and do 6502, Z80, 8088/86 and 680x0 development all on the same machine? Yeah right. Several of the same machine is generally kind of handy too. What one thing would I add if I could to this environment? a '386 Unix server, with a 16 port serial card and a good 300+ Meg drive that all the machines used as a centralizing resource. (I thought about doing it with another 256K XL and some 850's, but it's tough.) Sigh. Come on folks, if Hungary can vote out COMMUNISM, we sure as hell can cope with an integrated environment! Plan 9 will save the day! Terry Conklin conklin@egr.msu.edu uunet!frith!conklin The Club (517) 372-3131 The Club II (313) 334-8877 <<-- has all that quality Bob Puff stuff, by the way