mmiller@isis.cs.du.edu (Mark Miller) (06/30/91)
>Just to try to start a discussion... > >How can the 8 bits be revived, since it appears that they are pretty much dead? >(Ie, almost no commercial support, a fairly small number of users, etc.) >And are they worth reviving? > >I still use mine, and probably will after I get a new computer soon, but it's >kind of depressing sometimes to use a computer that generates as little >excitement at these ones do... > > Steven Ourada I don't think the Atari 8-bits are worth reviving in the marketplace, since I don't believe it would be possible to get it up to the status of the C-64 as far as software. The reason I compare it to the C-64 is not because of any preference of mine. I have liked and used my Atari 8-bit for four years now. I compare it to the C-64 because it is, to my knowledge, the ONLY 8-bit personal computer that is still being sold in mass quantities, miraculously as it is. And new software is still being made for it. The amazing thing about the C-64 is that it has outlasted even the "Apple II Forever" Apple II+/e series. I believe the only Apple II that Apple has been making for the past couple years is the IIGS. And unlike Apple's usual character of supporting its computers and encouraging 3rd-party support, the Apple IIGS has gotten little support. From what I've heard from others, the discontinuation of most of the Apple II models and the lack of support for the IIGS seems to have been caused by Apple's own decision making, not because of the market. I've seen some of the stuff the IIGS can do, and it almost ranks up there with the ST and Amiga, even though its 8/16-bit 65816 CPU only runs at about 2.8 Mhz. It's a sad story reminiscent of the history of the Atari 8-bit. I think the Atari 8-bits might still have a use in certain niche areas. I remember reading an article in Antic, back when it was still being published as a stand-alone magazine, about a company that sold teleprompter equipment to show studios. All the equipment was in a box, so all that was coming out of it was a joystick, a disk drive slot, and a keyboard. Little did the people know, who were buying it, that there was an Atari 8-bit computer inside the box. the author said the reason they picked the Atari is that it was inexpensive and it was relatively easy to make it do overscan and smooth-scrolling. I have heard some BBS sysops (who run Atari 8-bit boards) say that some of their users are amazed when they tell the users that the BBS they've been using is an Atari 8-bit hooked up to a Multi-I/O with 60 Megs on disk. I have been on a few of the Atari 8-bit boards and they are just FULL of features and games. As a matter of fact when I used to compare them with MS-DOS BBSes I was on, I actually considered the MS-DOS BBS software to be sub-standard compared to the 8-bit BBS software. I don't think the same can be said today, but it's taken a while for MS-DOS BBS software to match the capabilities of the Atari 8-bit BBSes. In addition, the Atari sysops said they would consider the Atari 8-bits, with the appropriate extra hardware, to be excellent BBS computers, since they are cheap, have lots of features in the BBS software, are pretty fast relative to BBSes on other computers, and you can use it to run your BBS the whole time, while you use your more powerful computer (whatever it may be) to do other things. The reason I talk about niche markets is it's some of what Atari seems to have been encouraging with the ST. Some companies have bought, customized, and then resold ST computers for specific markets and purposes, such as desktop publishing. I think Atari 8-bit computers could still be useful to people who don't already have one, by selling them to people in niche markets, granted that the appropriate extra hardware and software is sold along with the the computer to make it useful for that niche. I have just about pushed my Atari 8-bit to its limits. I am looking forward to getting an STe someday. My Atari 8-bit has done well for me through three years of college, and I haven't had a single problem with it for the four years that I've had it. The one thing that's broken down twice is my 1050 drive. So far it has met my needs with word processing (Atari Writer Plus) even for large papers, entertainment (obviously), telecommunications with several term programs (BobTerm for BBSes, Chameleon for 80-column 2400 bps. VT-52/ADM-3A terminal emulation and file transfers on Unix systems, and VT-10 Squared, a PD 80-column VT-100 emulator with all 80 columns on the screen at once), and languages (Atari BASIC, and the CC8 PD C compiler). The CC8 compiler is really what added more life to my 8-bit, because now I can write programs in C and compile them into stand-alone binary programs. I really like the C language, so this has encouraged me to do more programming on my 8-bit. I would have to say that nowadays the most used software on my 8-bit is terminal software (that could be another use for it: A cheap terminal capable of a few terminal emulations), since I like communicating to other people on BBSes and stuff with it. ---Mark mmiller@isis.cs.du.edu
tnfw0@isuvax.iastate.edu (Steven Ourada) (06/30/91)
In article <1991Jun29.205404.11999@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mmiller@isis.cs.du.edu (Mark Miller) writes: [Mass deletion] > >I think the Atari 8-bits might still have a use in certain niche areas. >I remember reading an article in Antic, back when it was still being >published as a stand-alone magazine, about a company that sold >teleprompter equipment to show studios. All the equipment was in a box, >so all that was coming out of it was a joystick, a disk drive slot, and >a keyboard. Little did the people know, who were buying it, that there >was an Atari 8-bit computer inside the box. the author said the reason >they picked the Atari is that it was inexpensive and it was relatively >easy to make it do overscan and smooth-scrolling. > Niche markets are definitely a good place for the 8bits. I'm pretty sure that no other computer with a decent amount of power is available for the prices that Atari 8bits go for now. Certain educational uses could be envisioned, if, of course, the Apple ][ didn't have such a strong hold in that area. >I have heard some BBS sysops (who run Atari 8-bit boards) say that some >of their users are amazed when they tell the users that the BBS they've >been using is an Atari 8-bit hooked up to a Multi-I/O with 60 Megs on >disk. I have been on a few of the Atari 8-bit boards and they are just >FULL of features and games. As a matter of fact when I used to compare >them with MS-DOS BBSes I was on, I actually considered the MS-DOS BBS >software to be sub-standard compared to the 8-bit BBS software. I don't >think the same can be said today, but it's taken a while for MS-DOS BBS >software to match the capabilities of the Atari 8-bit BBSes. In >addition, the Atari sysops said they would consider the Atari 8-bits, >with the appropriate extra hardware, to be excellent BBS computers, >since they are cheap, have lots of features in the BBS software, are >pretty fast relative to BBSes on other computers, and you can use it to >run your BBS the whole time, while you use your more powerful computer >(whatever it may be) to do other things. A local BBS in my area runs on a hugely expanded 130XE system (4 meg of RAM, 60 meg of disk space, 4 floppies, etc.). The sysop is constantly adding to his system and improving his BBS software, to the point that his system is one of the fastest in the area. Not to mention that he put it all together for $1500 or less plus labor. [Deletion] >I have just about pushed my Atari 8-bit to its limits. I am looking >forward to getting an STe someday. My Atari 8-bit has done well for >me through three years of college, and I haven't had a single problem >with it for the four years that I've had it. The one thing that's broken >down twice is my 1050 drive. So far it has met my needs with word >processing (Atari Writer Plus) even for large papers, entertainment >(obviously), telecommunications with several term programs (BobTerm for >BBSes, Chameleon for 80-column 2400 bps. VT-52/ADM-3A terminal >emulation and file transfers on Unix systems, and VT-10 Squared, a PD >80-column VT-100 emulator with all 80 columns on the screen at once), >and languages (Atari BASIC, and the CC8 PD C compiler). The CC8 >compiler is really what added more life to my 8-bit, because now I can >write programs in C and compile them into stand-alone binary programs. >I really like the C language, so this has encouraged me to do more >programming on my 8-bit. I would have to say that nowadays the most >used software on my 8-bit is terminal software (that could be another >use for it: A cheap terminal capable of a few terminal emulations), >since I like communicating to other people on BBSes and stuff with it. On that last note, I think an 8bit with some slightly souped up software could run a fairly complete battery of terminal emulations, and with the software on cartridge and a low res mono monitor, the package could be sold for <$350. I don't know what terminals sell for normally, but I'm sure that would be competitive. > >---Mark >mmiller@isis.cs.du.edu ******************************************************************************* * Steven Ourada Email: TNFW0@vax.iastate.edu or ar550@Cleveland.freenet.edu * * Iowa State student, Atari user, all around nice guy... * * "In order to remember your dreams, you must think of them as if they were * * little kittens." -- Ubiquitous song quote, King Missle * *******************************************************************************