dk1z#@andrew.cmu.edu.UUCP (02/21/87)
I've ridden motorcycles for quite a few years, much of that out of town, either just wandering around or actually trying to get somewhere 600 miles away. I've used tank bags to hold my maps, but all in all, they are not ideal. It's hard to get enough of the map visible, the maps tend to die young due to a lot of refolding, I never have all of the maps I need, and I have to take my eyes well off of the road for a considerable interval if I want to check out the map and keep rolling. So, what would be ideal is a heads up display for the map. (We will leave out guages and the like for a moment.) Unfortunately, the only place I've seen anything quite like what I want is in a movie called Time Rider. Not too easy to get ahold of, even if it were real. Has anyone developed anything like this, however experimental? It seems to me that with a CD player with the maps on it, an interface between the CD and the HUD, and a HUD for the helmet, you could do this. Digitizing a map and getting it onto a CD must have already been done and the interface/controller to scroll through the map should not be too tough. But I know very little about HUDs. How do they work? How much would one cost? Could you put one into a motorcycle helmet (leaving most of the electronics on the bike? Would it be legal? (Obscuring vision, or something like that.) So, any pointers to existing gear for this, CD maps (with associated hardware), HUDs, literature, et all would be most appreciative. I'm probably dreaming, but it'd be interesting to look into. -David Kovar
ron@brl-sem.UUCP (02/24/87)
I suspect that the current heads up display technology is a bit rough for motorcycle application. The way they currnetly work is to have a box, about the size of a shoe box, with some display in it which is columnated and bounced off a semireflective surface in front of the viewer. This sounds a bit clunky for a helmet mount. As for storage, the only consumer system that I've seen is ETAK. ETAK uses a CRT for a display and stores map info on (gak) cassette. I noticed that National Car Rental at SFO had these available in their cars. -Ron
davep@hpfcpp.UUCP (02/24/87)
re: HUDs for motorcycle helmets Wouldn't it be just as distracting changing focus from about 4 cm. (face shield ) to tens of meters ( road conditions ) as it would be to look down at your tank bag?
dlw@oucs.UUCP (02/28/87)
In article <3610001@hpfcpp.HP.COM>, davep@hpfcpp.HP.COM ( Dave Post) writes: > > re: HUDs for motorcycle helmets > > Wouldn't it be just as distracting changing focus from about 4 cm. > (face shield ) to tens of meters ( road conditions ) as it would be to > look down at your tank bag? Why have to look 4 cm from your eyes? It should be possible to have the display appear to be about 20 meters in front of you, although the type would have to be large. I think there is a device that will pinpoint where a person's attention is focused, psych labs use that sort of thing all the time. How difficult would it be to vary the focus and apparent distance of the image with where the user is looking? The only forseeable problem with this is where are you going to put all of the electronics? I wouldn't want to ride without the padding that is already there. +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ Daniel Weigert USA (614) 594-5486 Computer Science Dept., Ohio University, Athens, Ohio 45701-2979 Home: 230 Hoover House, Ohio University, Athens, Ohio 45701 (614) 597-7848 UUCP: ...{cbosgd,cbatt,cbdkc1}!oucs!dlw Smart Mailers: dlw@pdp.cs.OHIOU.EDU +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
dk1z#@andrew.cmu.edu.UUCP (03/02/87)
> The only forseeable problem with this is where are you going to put all of the > electronics? Good question. But what electronics needs to be mounted on the helmet? Most of the storage and control electronics can go on the bike, you'd only need to put the display equipment on the helmet. Seems that you could add a ridge around the top/bottom of the visor and make it work. But, not knowing what sort of display equipment you need makes it difficult to determine where it can go. > Wouldn't it be just as distracting changing focus from about 4 cm. > (face shield ) to tens of meters ( road conditions ) as it would be to > look down at your tank bag? I look down at my tach from time to time and have no problems refocusing. The major problem that I have with looking at the tank bag is that I have to look pretty much straight down. With either the tach or the HUD my head is still aligned with the road and I only have to refocus. And with the HUD, if a semi decides to block off your line of travel, and your vision, you're HUD's going to have a backdrop that is liable to get your attention quite rapidly where the tank bag will not. -David Kovar
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (03/03/87)
> > Wouldn't it be just as distracting changing focus from about 4 cm. > > (face shield ) to tens of meters ( road conditions ) as it would be to > > look down at your tank bag? > > Why have to look 4 cm from your eyes? It should be possible to have the > display appear to be about 20 meters in front of you, although the type > would have to be large... The optics in aircraft head-up displays are normally set up to make the image appear to be at infinity, in fact. (There is very little difference in eye focus between 20 m and infinity.) Presumably any similar device for a motorcycle would function the same way. Avoiding refocussing of the eyes is just as important as avoiding the need to look down. -- "We must choose: the stars or Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology the dust. Which shall it be?" {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,pyramid}!utzoo!henry
greg@utcsri.UUCP (Gregory Smith) (03/03/87)
In article <3610001@hpfcpp.HP.COM> davep@hpfcpp.UUCP writes: >Wouldn't it be just as distracting changing focus from about 4 cm. >(face shield ) to tens of meters ( road conditions ) as it would be to >look down at your tank bag? The image does not have to be focused on the reflective surface. In fact I think it can be focused at any arbitrary distance through suitable optics, (so you would see the image floating, say, 20 feet in front of you. Bizarre.) I imagine the best arrangement would involve mounting a very small crt in front of your forehead, reflecting off the inside of the faceplate. A tinted faceplate could allow the image to be seen in bright sunlight. Speaking of focusing displays, did anybody see the scene in Dune where the tactical display was focused on the pilot's *face*???? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Smith University of Toronto UUCP: ..utzoo!utcsri!greg Have vAX, will hack...
szepesi@fluke.UUCP (03/03/87)
>> >> Wouldn't it be just as distracting changing focus from about 4 cm. >> (face shield ) to tens of meters ( road conditions ) as it would be to >> look down at your tank bag? > Why have to look 4 cm from your eyes? It should be possible to have the > display appear to be about 20 meters in front of you, although the type > would have to be large. I think there is a device that will pinpoint > where a person's attention is focused, psych labs use that sort of thing > all the time. How difficult would it be to vary the focus and apparent > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > Daniel Weigert USA From what I remember of my experiences in school, I believe the device you are referring to locates the direction the eyes are pointing, not the distance to which they are focused. In a physiology lab I was in, we did some visual perception experiments that used an infrared emitter that was aimed at the boundary between the iris and the sclera (the colored and white parts of the eye. The amount of IR reflected varys between these two portions of the eye, and by detecting an increase or decrease in response, a detector is able to tell which direction the eye moves. Extending this to more than one direction is possible with more than one emitter/detector pair. Getting this to be auto-adjustable for a helmet seems to be a real pain. The setup we used required a fair amount of adjusting and was easily knocked out of alignment. Les Szepesi
mcintyre@rpics.UUCP (03/04/87)
In article <gUGPpiy00WA1wzs0UY@andrew.cmu.edu>, dk1z#@andrew.cmu.edu (David Kovar) writes: > > Wouldn't it be just as distracting changing focus from about 4 cm. > > (face shield ) to tens of meters ( road conditions ) as it would be to > > look down at your tank bag? > I look down at my tach from time to time and have no problems refocusing. I dont understand why you are worried about refocusing? From what I have heard and seen (not much, actually), the HUDs in the fighter planes are focused at infinity. I cant imagine a fighter pilot flying at Mach 2 worrying about changing his focus. Doesn't the fighter pilot just look where he's going and there's the data?? Dave McIntyre mcintyre@csv.rpi.edu -- David McIntyre seismo!rpics!mcintyre mcintyre@csv.rpi.edu
ken@argus.UUCP (03/04/87)
In article <3610001@hpfcpp.HP.COM>, davep@hpfcpp.HP.COM ( Dave Post) writes: > > re: HUDs for motorcycle helmets > > Wouldn't it be just as distracting changing focus from about 4 cm. > (face shield ) to tens of meters ( road conditions ) as it would be to > look down at your tank bag? How is it that fighter pilots can both focus on a panel less than a yard away, and still focus on planes hundreds of yards away? There are many optical tricks you can use (like in the viewfinder of a camera), but I'd really like to see if anything came of the work in trying to integrate computer generated holographs with a heads up display. -- Kenneth Ng: Post office: NJIT - CCCC, Newark New Jersey 07102 uucp !ihnp4!allegra!bellcore!argus!ken *** WARNING: NOT ken@bellcore.uucp *** bitnet(prefered) ken@orion.bitnet Kirk: "I don't care if you hit the broadside of a barn" Spock: "Why should I aim at such an object?"
greg@utcsri.UUCP (Gregory Smith) (03/06/87)
In article <1831@vax3.tc.fluke.COM> szepesi@fluke.UUCP writes: >From what I remember of my experiences in school, I believe the device you >are referring to locates the direction the eyes are pointing, not the distance >to which they are focused. In a physiology lab I was in, we did some visual >perception experiments that used an infrared emitter that was aimed at the >boundary between the iris and the sclera (the colored and white parts of the >eye. The amount of IR reflected varys between these two portions of the eye, >and by detecting an increase or decrease in response, a detector is able to >tell which direction the eye moves. Extending this to more than one direction >is possible with more than one emitter/detector pair. > >Getting this to be auto-adjustable for a helmet seems to be a real pain. The >setup we used required a fair amount of adjusting and was easily knocked out >of alignment. > >Les Szepesi A helmet HUD would automatically follow head motion. Why would you want it to follow eye motion? If the display kept its center where your eyes were looking, you wouldn't be able to look at any part except the center. It would be like trying to look at an afterimage in the corner of your eye. Of course you could do something clever like select different displays depending on where you looked, but I think that would be intensely annoying. Eye movement is not really a conscious action; we look at objects, and our eyes stay on those objects independantly of head motion. Thus the movement of the eye relative to the head is not really consciously controlled. So using it to control anything is probably a mistake. Head motion is a far more conscious action. [The preceding paragraph is based on my own guess and not on anyone's psychological research] Besides, with a HUD that followed the head, one could keep one's eyes pointing at a distant object, and simultaneously bring the desired part of the HUD onto the same point by head rotation. As someone pointed out, the HUD is focused at infinity and there is no real difference between focusing one's eyes at infinity, and focusing at 'outdoors' distances. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Smith University of Toronto UUCP: ..utzoo!utcsri!greg Have vAX, will hack...