[sci.electronics] Mixing computer and video signals

drascic@ecf.UUCP (06/05/87)

I want to overlay the graphics output of a computer onto a video image
of the real world, to implement a cursor.  This means that I have to
sync the camera to the computer's video, which is reasonably easy to do.
But once I have the two signals, I have to combine.  Someone suggested
that "keying" was the route.  This involves switching between the two
signals, depending on the level of one of them.  Unfortunately, this
seems to be very expensive.

Is it possible to simply add the two signals through appropriate
resistors?  Or are there chips available suitable for building a
simple keyer?  Any hints, suggestions, or suppliers would be much
appreciated.

	David Drascic    UUCP: drascic@ecf.toronto.edu  OR drascic@utecfb

mwtilden@orchid.UUCP (06/06/87)

In article <173@mv06.ecf.toronto.edu> drascic@ecf.toronto.edu (David Drascic) writes:
>Is it possible to simply add the two signals through appropriate
>resistors?  Or are there chips available suitable for building a
>simple keyer?  Any hints, suggestions, or suppliers would be much
>appreciated.
>
When I did this a few months ago, I used a MC14052 analog mux/demux
to select between the cursor-present signal and the normal video.  A high
grade amplifier has to re-boost the signal to 75 Ohm status but otherwise
there is no distortion at all.  These are all NTSC signals of course.

The problem with mixing computer with video through resistors is computers
generate single repeated sync signals of 262 scan lines (normally) and not
the 262.5 demanded by NTSC standards.  A bad jitter in your picture signal is
the result along with partial to complete color loss.

If you only have RGB coming out of your computer then I would recommend the 
MC1488 chip.  Works fine with a minimum of components (the funny coils
they insist you use can be easily faked with RC equivalents).  I have
still to get a reasonable circuit to color lock the video with this 
chip but I'm not worried, grey scale looks good for now.


-- 
Mark Tilden: _-_-_-__--__--_      /(glitch!)  M.F.C.F Hardware Design Lab.
-_-___       |              \  /\/            Un. of Waterloo. Canada, N2L-3G1  
     |__-_-_-|               \/               work: (519)-885-1211 ext.2457,
"MY OPINIONS, YOU HEAR!? MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!"

asm@utcsri.UUCP (06/07/87)

In article <8037@orchid.UUCP> mwtilden@orchid.UUCP (M.W. Tilden, Hardware) writes:
>[ some stuff deleted ]
>If you only have RGB coming out of your computer then I would recommend the 
>MC1488 chip.  Works fine with a minimum of components (the funny coils
>^^^^^^
>they insist you use can be easily faked with RC equivalents).  I have
>still to get a reasonable circuit to color lock the video with this 
>chip but I'm not worried, grey scale looks good for now.
>
>
>-- 
>Mark Tilden: _-_-_-__--__--_      /(glitch!)  M.F.C.F Hardware Design Lab.
>-_-___       |              \  /\/            Un. of Waterloo. Canada, N2L-3G1  
>     |__-_-_-|               \/               work: (519)-885-1211 ext.2457,
>"MY OPINIONS, YOU HEAR!? MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!"



	I think Mark means the MC1377. This is an RGB->composite video
	converter.


-- 
	Anees Munshi @ University of Toronto Engineering.

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	Reality is so much better!

mwtilden@orchid.UUCP (06/09/87)

In article <4880@utcsri.UUCP> asm@utcsri.UUCP (Anees Munshi) writes:
>In article <8037@orchid.UUCP> mwtilden@orchid.UUCP (M.W. Tilden, Hardware) writes:
>>MC1488 chip.  Works fine with a minimum of components (the funny coils
>   ^^^^
>
>	I think Mark means the MC1377. This is an RGB->composite video
>	converter.
>
Yes, indeed I did.  Sorry about that.  (What are they putting in the 
coffee around here?)

By the way, the Motorola App Note number is AN932 if anybody's interested.
 

-- 
Mark Tilden: _-_-_-__--__--_      /(glitch!)  M.F.C.F Hardware Design Lab.
-_-___       |              \  /\/            Un. of Waterloo. Canada, N2L-3G1  
     |__-_-_-|               \/               work: (519)-885-1211 ext.2457,
"MY OPINIONS, YOU HEAR!? MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!"

king@dciem.UUCP (Stephen King) (06/09/87)

You could also try looking at Motorola's MC1378, a complete video
overlay synchronizer. I have put together the evaluation board, as
shown in the application notes, and found it to work quite well.
Some of the passive components in the circuit may be hard to find
(colour burst bandpass transformer, 200nS delay line). Even the chip
itself may be hard to get. (I got engineering samples from Motorola)
It does, however, provide genlock, RGB input, 36Mhz clock (10x colour
frequency), NTSC or PAL composite video input and overlay enable. Well
worth investigating!

/* these are, of course, only my own humble opinions */

	...!utzoo!dciem!king			sjk.

hedley@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Hedley Davis) (06/10/87)

In article <173@mv06.ecf.toronto.edu> drascic@ecf.UUCP writes:
>I want to overlay the graphics output of a computer onto a video image
>of the real world, to implement a cursor.  This means that I have to
>sync the camera to the computer's video, which is reasonably easy to do.
>But once I have the two signals, I have to combine.  Someone suggested
>that "keying" was the route.  This involves switching between the two
>signals, depending on the level of one of them.  Unfortunately, this
>seems to be very expensive.
>
>Is it possible to simply add the two signals through appropriate
>resistors?  Or are there chips available suitable for building a
>simple keyer?  Any hints, suggestions, or suppliers would be much
>appreciated.
>
>	David Drascic    UUCP: drascic@ecf.toronto.edu  OR drascic@utecfb

The synchonization is the tricky part. For a simple cursor, you could
probably do it with hardware of small complexity. For anything more
complex, there is really only one cost effective solution.

Please no flames for this ( requested ) advert.

The Amiga seris of computers from Commodore support genlocking. This
allows the amiga video output to be synchonized with, and overlayed
upon an external composite video source ( like a camera or VCR ). The
genlock then produces a composite video output ( suitable for feeding
to a VCR or monitor ).

If your needs are immediate, I suggest that you obtain a A1000 with a
A1300 genlock ( manufactured by commodore ). If you can wait a few months
the A2000 ( fancier box with better expansion capabilities ), with its
genlock would be a better bet. Still later, other goodies ( as yet
unannounced ) will be forth coming.

On the software end, several video titlers and animiation packages
are available now ( and others are RSN ).

If indeed this is for the university, we have a discount program for
such originizations. You might contact Dave Archambault at
(215)-431-9193 about such policies. He is the man handling all the
university marketing and accounts.

Hedley

ex499mih@CS.UCLA.EDU (06/12/87)

IBM has recently released a piece of hardware which it calls "Infowindow".

Its purpose is as a controller for level III interactive videodisc courses.

One of its primary functions is to "mix" computer graphics and ntsc video
on the same display. This is accomplished by using the EGA resolution mode
which most closely matches the resolution of the ntsc signal (I'm no video
expert, so please excuse my vagueness). Special hardware stops the EGA at
the beginning of each screen refresh in order to synch it with the ntsc
scan. The User (program) selects one graphics color which the hardware will
consider to be "transparent" to video. As the EGA is "read" during refresh,
any pel which is to have the same value as the transparent color is given 
the ntsc signal at that time (i.e. EGA goes to the display until transparent
color, if = transparent color then NTSC).

That's about it I guess.
 

phil@osiris.UUCP (06/15/87)

In article <6583@shemp.UCLA.EDU>, ex499mih@CS.UCLA.EDU writes:
>  The User (program) selects one graphics color which the hardware will
> consider to be "transparent" to video. As the EGA is "read" during refresh,
> any pel which is to have the same value as the transparent color is given 
> the ntsc signal at that time (i.e. EGA goes to the display until transparent
> color, if = transparent color then NTSC).

Wow, what a novel concept!  :-)  Suppose IBM will try to patent it?

But seriously.. this sounds just like a digital form of chroma keying.  (I
even seem to remember someone suggesting chroma keying as a solution to the
original poster's problem.)

Question for all you serious broadcast people out there: I imagine the
original chroma key hardware was analog.  Is it still done that way, or is
it done digitally now?  Seems to me that with these new-fangled digital
video controllers stuff like this would be getting much simpler, if not
cheaper...

...!decvax!decuac!\                                               Phil Kos
  ...!seismo!mimsy!aplcen!osiris!phil           The Johns Hopkins Hospital
...!allegra!/                                                Baltimore, MD

hedley@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Hedley Davis) (06/16/87)

In article <1171@osiris.UUCP> phil@osiris.UUCP (Philip Kos) writes:
>Question for all you serious broadcast people out there: I imagine the
>original chroma key hardware was analog.  Is it still done that way, or is
>it done digitally now?  Seems to me that with these new-fangled digital
>video controllers stuff like this would be getting much simpler, if not
>cheaper...
>
Typically, the computer is phase locked to the incoming video signal.
The actual switching is done with analogue hardware. This avoids ever
having to digitize the incoming video signal ( an expensive proposition
).

I've heard of full digital units which do digitize the incoming video.
These often give you other bells and whistles like freeze frame, color
and contrast corrections ( under software control ), and frame
grabbing. They are more expensive then your run of the mill genlock.

Hedley

jhma@eagle.UUCP (06/18/87)

Summary:
Expires:
Sender:
Followup-To:


	The Atari ST range of computers can be genlocked: Ask Atari and
I'm sure they'll be glad to tell you.....

	Also the old MSX ( Remember them? ) machines used a chip ( 9918?
9938? Something like that ) which had a video plane immediately in front
of it's background plane and behind all the sprite planes. Try digging
up a data sheet: I'm sure it's still available.

Tris Mabbs.
~~~~~~~~~~~
...!seismo!mcvax!ukc!tehm
   tehm@uk.ac.ukc

mwtilden@orchid.UUCP (06/22/87)

In article <3119@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> tehm@ukc.ac.uk (Tris 'Mad' Mabbs) writes:
>
>	The Atari ST range of computers can be genlocked: Ask Atari and
>I'm sure they'll be glad to tell you.....
>
I'm sorry but I don't think so.  Sure they've included a partial hardware
provision for genlocking but the way the code was implemented, it can 
never work.


-- 
Mark Tilden: _-_-_-__--__--_      /(glitch!)  M.F.C.F Hardware Design Lab.
-_-___       |              \  /\/            Un. of Waterloo. Canada, N2L-3G1  
     |__-_-_-|               \/               work: (519)-885-1211 ext.2457,
"MY OPINIONS, YOU HEAR!? MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!"