rlf@mtgzy.UUCP (XMRN10000[saf]-r.l.fletcher) (05/19/88)
I have used X10 stuff for years and like it alot even though I have been blown out of bed at 3 AM (more than once) by a loud stereo being turned on by lightning. I have most every gazank that has been offered for these things in recent years (phone, timer, Homeminder, RS232 INT) but what is lacking in this system is feedback to a host. I cannot help but wonder why no company (BSR, Tandy, GE, Leviton) has done any kind of development on adding feedback from the modules to a host controller. It does not seem to me an insurmountable problem. You add a circuit to the module with an inductive pick-up around the "hot" 120VAC (clamp-on ammeter) lead of the connected device and LSI circuit that handles A/D. When queried, the module xmits a bit pattern back to the host with the amount of current being drawn by the device. With everything tied in this way your host PC could run a reasonable estimate of electric bill. Not to mention being able to remotely determine whats on or off in your home. (Something I'd really like to be able to do) Why has this not been done (or has it). I know of feedback control systems but they are hardwired and $100-$200/port, but none for the BSR AC carrier scheme. Whaddya think? Can it be done? I kindof get the feeling I must be missing something or it would have been done by now. I think there are many who would be willing to pay $25-30/module to have this capability.
SPGDCM@CMSA.BERKELEY.EDU (05/25/88)
MSG:FROM: SPGDCM --UCBCMSA TO: NETWORK --NETWORK 05/24/88 17:55:24 To: NETWORK --NETWORK Network Address From: Doug Mosher Subject: More X10 questions To: sci-electronics@ucbvax rlf@mtgzy.UUCP (XMRN10000 saf -r.l.fletcher) asks: >but what is lacking in this system is feedback to a host. I cannot >help but wonder why no company (BSR, Tandy, GE, Leviton) has done any kind >of development on adding feedback from the modules to a host controller. >It does not seem to me an insurmountable problem. >Why has this not been done (or has it). Actually, it has been done but was not a market success. I can't recall the company name, but I was studying all developments in the period 1982-84 and one company added several twists. They had modules completely compatible with X-10, and also modules that communicated with an FSK-style code, also done by modulating rf on the house power lines. Some of their modules sent status info back to "the host". I also remember discussion of a drawback to this: there were twice as many failure modes (a regular module responds or it doesn't; these responded or not, and said they did or not, sometimes independently.) I am personally a devotee of buy-a-module home automation. But that has proved to be a very thin market. It seems that most people fall into the "consumer" category, and want really simple (read on-off) devices. Then a few people are hobbyists and are willing to wire up gizmos to do neat things (many of us sci.electronics readers, for example). Even fewer people want to do the fancy functions, by buying things off the shelf. So it has been a minor miracle that any convention evolved, and that it has lived in a continually available, upward compatible way for years; namely the X-10 family. It seems to me that its inventors just stuck doggedly to the grindstone, perhaps 10 years now, until a critical mass of devices gained their way into homes. (And they have short chip lives, so it has taken replacement sales to keep up the critical mass...). But it's very difficult for anyone else to join the fray. Even attempts to "marry" the existing technology have failed miserably; General Electric spent a big wad on the homeminder, only to have to sell it off bankruptcy-style to that all-encompassing sponge for selloff technology, Radio Shack. I wish it were otherwise, but am glad there is at least some technology in this niche that stays living. Incidentally, the main companies that share the X-10 standard and patents, BSR and Leviton, have taken many knocks themselves. BSR put out a whole series of home-computer interfaces, only to have to sell them for peanuts thru DAK mailorder soon thereafter. ( ) ( Doug Mosher <SPGDCM@CMSA.Berkeley.edu> ) ( 257 Evans, Univ. of California, Berkeley, CA, 415/642-5823 ) More X10 questions
alw@eddie.MIT.EDU (Alan Wu) (05/25/88)
The company that sold X10 compatible modules with status feedback was First Alert (Pittway); I still have the sales literature filed away at home. Naturally, you could only get feedback with their modules and central controller, but it was backwards-compatible with X10 modules. The controller had some relatively advanced features for the time, such as programmable control including day-of-week, and a rudimentary security alarm feature. It was not marketed very well; I never actually saw one in the flesh, in spite of looking for it in Boston and New York. There was another outfit called Anova a few years later, which had a modular telephone/answering machine/home control/alarm system with some kind of line carrier remote modules. I actually saw one of these systems, but they were quite expensive and compatibility with X10 was never mentioned. Anova also dropped the product, and may even be out of business. I guess the marketing lesson is that making something cheap, compatible, and available through multiple distribution channels is more important in establishing a foothold than is a fancy high-end system. Once X10 was established as a de facto standard, nobody else could displace it. If X10 USA is really clever, they could extend their standard in an upwards-compatible way and add in closed-loop feedback of some sort without breaking the existing standard. By the way, does anybody have archives of past messages concerning X10? I got swamped with work and had to stop reading netnews just around the time things got interesting about 6 months back. -- --Alan Wu Usenet: alw@mit-eddie / Internet: alw@eddie.mit.edu Telephone: (617) 253-5624