lharris@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Leonard Harris) (08/28/88)
I have been trying to get some information from Intel on price and availabiligty of one time programable 8051's ( the windowless eprom plastic part. I know they exist! but Intel's sales office in Toronto doesn't. Five phone calls to the head office in California has also failed to give results (no one calls back). Stories I have been told by Intel in Toronto are: 8751's are $80 each, $40 in quantity 1000 masked rom 8051's are $3.00 each but you need a minimum oreder of 2000 and there is a $3000 setup charge. The windowless eprom part that is one time programable doesn't exist but if it did it would be only about $5.00 cheaper than a 8751\ because plastic is not much cheaper than ceramic etc. etc.. We all know that Intel uses the one time programable part when you order masked rom 8051's - there is no way they would make a new die to spec for each oreder. So - my question is - where can I get hold of 590-1000 otp 8051's . I don't need 2000 chips and can't afford to get then "masked"\ by Intel. Thanks in advance /leonard
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (08/28/88)
In article <1988Aug27.180524.1964@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> lharris@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Leonard Harris) writes: >We all know that Intel uses the one time programable part >when you order masked rom 8051's - there >is no way they would make a new die to >spec for each oreder. Au contraire, this is precisely why the large setup charge and minimum order. They don't redesign the thing, of course, but they do pump your ROM data into a program that generates a custom mask for one layer [I think it's only one] of the ROM part of the chip. That's why it's called "masked ROM". I'm not sure what the situation is on the Intel side of the fence, but it is reported that when you buy "ROMless" one-chip micros from Motorola, you are probably getting masked-ROM parts which turned out to have defects in the ROM area. >[Intel says] The windowless eprom part that is one time >programable doesn't exist but if it did it would >be only about $5.00 cheaper than a 8751\ because >plastic is not much cheaper than ceramic etc. etc.. That may be a bit of an exaggeration, but it is true that on-chip EPROMs are quite a bit harder to make than on-chip ROMs. (Witness the way some companies make "EPROM" versions of their parts that are just ROMless ones with a piggyback EPROM socket.) -- Intel CPUs are not defective, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology they just act that way. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
spp@zabriskie.uucp (Steve Pope) (08/29/88)
In article <1988Aug27.180524.1964@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> lharris@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Leonard Harris) writes: >I have been trying to get some information >from Intel on price and availabiligty of >one time programable 8051's ( the windowless >eprom plastic part. I know they exist! but Intel's >sales office in Toronto doesn't. Five phone >calls to the head office in California has >also failed to give results (no one calls back). >Stories I have been told by Intel in Toronto are: > 8751's are $80 each, $40 in quantity 1000 > masked rom 8051's are $3.00 each but >you need a minimum oreder of 2000 and there is a >$3000 setup charge. Consider using the 80C31 (available in 44-lead chip carrier), an external ROM, plus address latch (a 373). The 80C31 is I think about $7 in the quantities you are talking about. steve pope ...ucbvax!spp
rob@lucifer.UUCP ( 237) (08/31/88)
In article <1988Aug28.002342.16425@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > >They don't redesign the thing, of course, but they do pump your ROM data >into a program that generates a custom mask for one layer [I think it's >only one] of the ROM part of the chip. That's why it's called "masked ROM". Yes it is only one. The 2000 piece minimum order sounds like a bargain; for "mature" processors (like 8051, 8048, 6801, etc.) the minimum order quantities are rising because of the better yields being achieved and thus the lower unit cost. >it is reported that when you buy "ROMless" one-chip micros from Motorola, you >are probably getting masked-ROM parts which turned out to have defects in >the ROM area. I heard this too but was informed that this poses a problem: how do you ensure that enough masked parts have defective ROMs to meet demand? :-) >>[Intel says] The windowless eprom part ... is only about $5.00 cheaper >>... because plastic is not much cheaper than ceramic etc. etc.. > >it is true that on-chip EPROMs >are quite a bit harder to make than on-chip ROMs. Not quite. EPROM parts are more expensive in terms of chip area and packaging required (ceramic or cerdip packages are not cheap) and they pose design problems: how do you ensure complete emulation of the masked parts AND add the extra circuitry to allow programming? When first introduced EPROMs were treated as a (low volume) necessary evil by the chip manufacturers as a route to selling more ROMs. Now of course some users never reach the masked ROM stage and EPROMs are 'respectable'. As to OTPs, well, the difficulty here is testing; EPROMs are normally tested by programming test patterns and then erasing before delivery which would not be very useful :-) One method which (I think) is used is to have a small area of extra EPROM which can be programmed as a test. Of course all this costs money hence the price. Mind you, it doesn't cost THAT much; someone somewhere is making a large profit thank you very much! :-) ---------- Rob Clive. UUCP: mcvax!ukc!lucifer!rob Lucas Diesel Systems, Cirencester Most others: rob%lucifer@ukc.ac.uk Gloucestershire, GL7 1QG, UK. Now read on....