johne@hpvcla.HP.COM (John Eaton) (12/06/88)
<<< < < My reasoning is as follows: Altera is in the business of selling < programmable logic devices, and since only they make the software for < programming their chips, it should be given away so that the chips will < be more widely used. ------------- By that logic companies that make micro's should give away assemblers since that will only help sell the hardware. But in reality they are sold as seperate products. I agree with you in that it would be nice to have a basic no frills method to enter designs that wouldn't cost you an arm and a leg. Something like PALASM2 thhat basiclytranslates your design into a fuse pattern would really be nice. The high priced spiffy tools should be sold because they make the process easier or add extra features but not because they are the only way to do the job. John Eaton !hpvcla!johne
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (12/08/88)
In article <5030011@hpvcla.HP.COM> johne@hpvcla.HP.COM (John Eaton) writes: >By that logic companies that make micro's should give away assemblers since >that will only help sell the hardware... Some (the smart ones) do, at least a simple assembler. >I agree with you in that it would be nice to have a basic no frills method >to enter designs that wouldn't cost you an arm and a leg. Something like >PALASM2 thhat basiclytranslates your design into a fuse pattern would really >be nice... Yup. I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that datasheets received from companies that don't do something like this should be thrown in the garbage on receipt. Their policy is really infuriating, not to mention stupid and shortsighted. Altera is an obvious example, but Xilinx is even worse -- they don't even have the excuse that you'd need programming hardware to zap the chips anyway! Such neat chips, too... What a waste. -- SunOSish, adj: requiring | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology 32-bit bug numbers. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
rick@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Rick Spanbauer) (12/10/88)
In article <1988Dec7.191920.19019@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > In article <5030011@hpvcla.HP.COM> johne@hpvcla.HP.COM (John Eaton) writes: > stupid and shortsighted. Altera is an obvious example, but Xilinx is even > worse -- they don't even have the excuse that you'd need programming > hardware to zap the chips anyway! Such neat chips, too... What a waste. I tried to use Xilinx in a debugger design recently. I wanted to dynamically program the part from a software level debugger, ie define different address/range comparators, cycle counters, etc. I was not only abused by the Xilinx reps for just *asking* how to program their part, but even by the technical people at Xilinx. I agree with Henry - if design engineers just refuse to use parts from annoying little companies like Xilinx, Altera, etc then they will just dry up and die next recession. I wonder about the future of megapals anyways given that if Mosis is actually serious about selling access to fab lines for $400/design custom may be the way to go. > SunOSish, adj: requiring | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology Rick Spanbauer SUNY/Stony Brook