hermann@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Michael Hermann) (01/03/89)
In article <2794.23E998F3@mailcom.FIDONET.ORG>, postmaster@mailcom.FIDONET.ORG (Bernard Aboba) writes: > Just wondered if users of various PC board layout programs might be > willing to recommend an (inexpensive, if possible) program to layout a PC > board. It would be nice if there were also an autorouting module > available for it. I'd be interested in any advice in this direction as well. Mike Hermann @ Computer Science, U of Calgary 2500 University Dr. NW, Calgary, AB, Canada T2N 1N4 UUCP ...uunet!ubc-cs!calgary!hermann ARPA calgary!hermann@cs.ubc.ca
brian@cbw1.UUCP (Brian Cuthie) (01/05/89)
In article <436@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP> hermann@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Michael Hermann) writes: >In article <2794.23E998F3@mailcom.FIDONET.ORG>, postmaster@mailcom.FIDONET.ORG (Bernard Aboba) writes: >> Just wondered if users of various PC board layout programs might be >> willing to recommend an (inexpensive, if possible) program to layout a PC >> board. It would be nice if there were also an autorouting module >> available for it. > > I'd be interested in any advice in this direction as well. > Well... I just evaluated a couple of them and here's what I found out: First, they fall into two catagories: smart and stupid. How can you tell which is which ?? Easy. Stupid: TANGO ($500.00) Tango is virtually useless other than as a replacement to taping methods. It doesn't know anything about nets. Basically what you draw is what you get. It can't tell you that you've just connected +5v to GND, for instance. Smart: PADS-PCB ($1000.00) This product is actually a suprisingly good PCB layout program. It has extensive support for SMD (surface mount devices) as well as true multilayer designes. It has several autorouter options available including a rip-up router that claims %100 completion on almost any board that is routable. Tracks can be dragged. Vias are automatically inserted when you switch layers of a trace. Vias are deleted when you edit a trace such that a via is unecessary. As you route a trace the RAT is rubberbanded to the place you are trying to route to (so you know where you're going). It's a good program. PADS-PCB can be purchased from a number of sources. ZYREL (408) 433 - 0488 also offers a full service bureau including: PCB fab, Assembly, and artwork plots. They even will lease time on their super-router. So, you can place the parts and hand route the critical signals and then let them auto-route the tough sections :-). I would not recommend programs that are tape replacements (like TANGO) to anyone unless you just plain can't afford something like PADS. The difference in price versus functionality is more on the order of 100 to 1 rather than the 2 to 1 the list prices would suggest. ZYREL will also send a free demo package upon request. If you want more info than I feel like typing here, you are welcome to call me on the phone. -brian BTW: I liked PADS enough to buy it. I do not, however, have any affiliation with ZYREL (or anyone else for that matter...) (301) 381 - 1718 -- Brian D. Cuthie uunet!umbc3!cbw1!brian Columbia, MD brian@umbc3.umd.edu
haynes@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (Jim Haynes) (01/14/89)
There was a product review of several of these in a mazagine a year or two ago - probably the magazine was Ham Radio. I remember reading the article, but too much information flows in (and right back out again) to remember much more than that. Try your library.
apn@Apple.COM (Alex Novickis) (01/29/89)
In article <2794.23E998F3@mailcom.FIDONET.ORG> postmaster@mailcom.FIDONET.ORG (Bernard Aboba) writes: >Just wondered if users of various PC board layout programs might be >willing to recommend an (inexpensive, if possible) program to layout a PC >board. It would be nice if there were also an autorouting module >available for it. Since you didn't mention for what computer, I will cover all the cases I know, with a few notes: in the PC world: Orcad/Schema - I have friends that swear by this, although I have only played with it for a few hours and found it to be east to learn and full of most features required. this packeage is hopelessly copyprotected EE designer - I evaluated EEII and EEIII. Not worth the diskettes. The manual would be usefull if printed on softer paper. Wintek/Smartwork- this is a toy... works only on CGA.. supports ONE plotter. AutoCAD - Not really a CAD package fore circuit design, but is a high enough quality package that it CAN be used. lacks support for auto-routing or rubber-banding. in the MAC world DCAD - Douglas CAD seems to be the only one on the market currently that is a professional product. MacCad - should have best been left as a public domain item. there are a few incomplete public domain packages, but typically they will not run on anything small (like a PC) or anything that is programmer hostile ( like a MAC) ---- these opionions are mine and not my employers ----- Alex P. Novickis, Real Time systems demi-guru. (W) 408-370-4541 ALINK:alex.n (PAGE) 289-6678 UUCP: {afsg,amdahl,claris,voder,rutgers,amdcad,ames} apn@apple.com, apn@nonvon "I think... I think it's in my basement. Let me go upstairs and check"-Escher.
john@stiatl.UUCP (John DeArmond) (01/31/89)
In article <24950@apple.Apple.COM> apn@Apple.COM (Alex Novickis) writes: >in the PC world: > Orcad/Schema - I have friends that swear by this, although I have > only played with it for a few hours and found it to > be east to learn and full of most features required. > this packeage is hopelessly copyprotected I wonder how current you information on the copy protection is. My copy, vintage - about a year ago - is not protected at all. I'll echo the sentiments that it's a GREAT package. > EE designer - I evaluated EEII and EEIII. Not worth the diskettes. > The manual would be usefull if printed on softer paper. AMEN brother!!! this is the biggest piece of trash on the market right now. written in BASIC, copy protected, a mishmash of keyboard commands and mouse commands, SLOW and prone to crashing. Plus it's hardware copyprotected. The manuals are almost unreadable because of reproduction quality. So poorly organized you use a linear search to find things. It's really easier to manually tape, even for revisions. > Wintek/Smartwork- this is a toy... works only on CGA.. supports ONE > plotter. Again, AMEN. They do now support EGA and a few plotters. Actually, if the package cost 100 bux and was not copy protected, it would do ok for quick and simple hacks - probably better than some expensive systems. As it is at 895 bux and copy protected, it's a no-brainer. > AutoCAD - Not really a CAD package fore circuit design, but > is a high enough quality package that it CAN be used. > lacks support for auto-routing or rubber-banding. There are a couple of companies that make add-ons for autocad that do the necessary autorouting and so on. The AutoLisp programming language makes this possible. I don't have much experience with the overlay packages but I LIKE autocad. Especially when compared to the above trash. (EE III & Wintek) > >in the MAC world > DCAD - Douglas CAD seems to be the only one on the market > currently that is a professional product. > >Alex P. Novickis, Real Time systems demi-guru. (W) 408-370-4541 A collegue reports good look with Douglas CAD. I don't do Macintrash myself so I don't know. There's another package called TANGO-PCB which looks good. I've not used it much but have a collegue who has done several boards with it. He thinks highly of it. Of all the ones I've used, I like OrCad the best. The package is very intuitive and easy to use and it's FAST. It's plotting facilities are pretty weak but are enough to get by. I wrote a program to scale and rotate plotter output which overcame the deficiences. I'd expect OrCad to fix this stuff fast judging by their response on the phone. -- John De Armond, WD4OQC | Manual? ... What manual ?!? Sales Technologies, Inc. Atlanta, GA | This is Unix, My son, You ...!gatech!stiatl!john | just GOTTA Know!!!
postmaster@mailcom.FIDONET.ORG (Bernard Aboba) (02/03/89)
Just wondered if users of various PC board layout programs might be willing to recommend an (inexpensive, if possible) program to layout a PC board. It would be nice if there were also an autorouting module available for it.