gts@dasys1.UUCP (G. T. Samson) (02/16/89)
Hi there... I'm looking for ideas about an electronics project that I want to toss together. Basically, what I want to do is build a circuit that simulates the "zap", or spark, you get when you drag your sock-clad feet around on a carpeted floor in the wintertime, then touch something that's grounded. Unfortunately, the only thing I know about the "zap" is that it's a very high-voltage, low-current thing. How would I build this? And would there be any way to make the voltage and/or current produced adjustable? Could I drive it off a small battery, i.e., 9v or AA/AAA? My (vastly untrained and uninformed) thought was to build something that charged a (variable?) capacitor off a battery, and made the voltage across the capacitor dischargeable at the press of a switch across a couple of (bare-wire?) terminals. This would require some time to fully (re)charge the capacitor after each use... I think. Is this a reasonable idea? (I know it's nothing like a plan. 8-) ) Please E-MAIL any answers... I'm sure this group doesn't need a flood. If there's sufficient interest in the subject, I'll summarize plans, hints/tips, ideas, etc. back to sci.electronics. All replies greatly appreciated! -- Name: Gregory T. Samson AKA: The Evil MicroWizard [and once An Insane Man] Nets: dasys1!gts@masa.com [NOT gts@prep.AI.MIT.EDU!] ...!cmcl2!phri!dasys1!gts Quote: "You've made my day, and now you have to sleep in it." - TMBG
guest@tree.UUCP (crash) (02/20/89)
If you want to build a static electricity can be fun, but dangerous also!" generator, you might be wise to lean more towards a constant-flow set-up(like the non-conducting material rubbing the inside of a glass spere). capacitors can be dangerous because they can support not only voltage, but a fair amount of amperage also. Get the combination right, and they'd have to charge your cap. back up and hit you again to get your heart re-started!!!(i know, i dream of that too) Like Mr Wizard says, "electricity can be fun, but dangerous also!" can be fun, but dangerous also. Good luck with your little project, and when you finish it, be sure to post it so that I don't find you sneekin' up behind me!!AACCCCCBCCCCCCCCyour project,and be mightyBBBCCCCCCC
wiz@xroads.UUCP (Mike Carter) (02/21/89)
In article <8724@dasys1.UUCP>, gts@dasys1.UUCP (G. T. Samson) writes: > Basically, what I want to do is build a circuit that simulates the > "zap", or spark, you get when you drag your sock-clad feet around > on a carpeted floor in the wintertime, then touch something that's > grounded. Unfortunately, the only thing I know about the "zap" is > that it's a very high-voltage, low-current thing. > > My (vastly untrained and uninformed) thought was to build something that > charged a (variable?) capacitor off a battery, and made the voltage > across the capacitor dischargeable at the press of a switch across a > couple of (bare-wire?) terminals. This would require some time to fully > (re)charge the capacitor after each use... I think. Is this a reasonable > idea? (I know it's nothing like a plan. 8-) ) > > Name: Gregory T. Samson > AKA: The Evil MicroWizard [and once An Insane Man] > Nets: dasys1!gts@masa.com [NOT gts@prep.AI.MIT.EDU!] ...!cmcl2!phri!dasys1!gts Greg; If you're indeed interested in High Voltage experiments I suggest firstly obtaining a book about TESLA coils from your local library. What its appears you wanted is a STATIC generator, or Van De Gram Generator. Such devices are very DANGEROUS. It's not the actual shock that could kill you, it's your reaction to the jolt. High Static discharges can also pose a health hazzard. A Van De Graff Generator is nothing to stick your finger into. There are other projects you could use. Jacob's ladders are easily contructed using two wire coat hangers and an old neon tube transformer. I would highly advise against building one though..even very, very careful folks like myself get **ZAPPED** enough times through the years to know better than to ->play-< with high voltage. I've built a few dangerous tesla coils before and have been fortunate only to have been rendered unconcious by them for brief periods. The old club I belonged to made a very LARGE Tesla coil and used it a few times. The results to nearby computer equipment was costly. If you want a cheap way out, I suggest buying a stun-gun from your local "self-protection" outfit. Those are minature Tesla coils....far safer than the 20 Million volt jobs. Those will kill you. ve heared o few horror stories about pilots getting thrown accross the blacktop before static bleeders. They often died. High voltage is not a toy...just beware. -Mike -- ============================================================================= = Mike Carter N7GYX, Phoenix AZ| Q: Why did the Chicken cross the road ? = = hplabs!hp-sdd!crash!xroads!wiz| A: To ESCape the Main Menu . = =============================================================================
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (02/22/89)
In article <577@xroads.UUCP>, wiz@xroads.UUCP (Mike Carter) writes: > In article <8724@dasys1.UUCP>, gts@dasys1.UUCP (G. T. Samson) writes: > > Basically, what I want to do is build a circuit that simulates the > > "zap", or spark, you get when you drag your sock-clad feet around > There are other projects you could use. Jacob's ladders are easily contructed > using two wire coat hangers and an old neon tube transformer. > I would highly advise against building one though..even very, very careful > folks like myself get **ZAPPED** enough times through the years to know > better than to ->play-< with high voltage. > High voltage is not a toy...just beware. Also, if you build a Jacobs ladder device (two bars with a spark jumping between it) be aware that besides the neato 'lightning', it is generating very large amounts of RF. By playing around too long to such a device you can cause damage to soft tissue in your body. RF works like microwaves, heating up tissues and water, essentially cooking you from the inside out. This may be a slight exageration, but be careful! I built such a Jaccobs ladder in school, using some voltage tripplers and a TV power supply. I could hold a flourescent tube 10' away and it would light up from the RF. That's when my Instructor warned me to watch out for the RF. -- John Sparks // Amiga | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks \X/ UUCP | >> call D.I.S.K. @ 502/968-5401 thru 5406 << A virtuous life is its own punishment.
cgs@umd5.umd.edu (Chris Sylvain) (02/22/89)
[]
There are currently (no pun intended, really!) a number of competing ESD
models and methods for testing the effects of human body discharge on
electronic components.
First, Check the following references:
MIL STD 883C, Test Methods and Procedures for Micro Electronics
DOD STD 1686, Electrostatic Discharge Control Program for Protection of
Electrical and Electronic Parts, Assemblies and Equipment
DOD HDBK-263, Electrostatic Discharge Control Handbook for Protection of
Electrical and Electronic Parts, Assemblies and Equipment
(note the DOD STD and the DOD HDBK are quite different documents, regardless
of the similarity of their titles)
Rutherford, D.H. and Perkins, J.F., Effects of Electrical Overstress on
Digital Bipolar Microcircuits and Analysis Techniques for Failure Site
Location, Electrical Overstress/Electrostatic Discharge Symposium
Proceedings, EOS-1, IIT Research Institute, Rome NY, pp. 64-77
Enders, J., Susceptability of IC's in ESD Step-Stress Tests, EOS-3, pp. 106-113
Shaw, R.N. and Enoch, R.D., A Programmable Equipment for Electrostatic
Discharge Testing to Human Body Models, EOS-5, pp. 48-55
McAteer, O.J., Twist, R.E. and Walker, R.C., Latent ESD Failures, EOS-4,
pp. 41-48
International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) Pub. 801-2, Electrostatic
Discharge for Industrial Process Control (formerly IEC 65 (Secr) 80)
NEMA, Residential Controls, Environmental Testing for Electronic Controls,
Part DC33, Proposed June 24-25, 1982
EIA (Electronic Industries Association) Standards Project PN-1361,
Environmental and Safety considerations for Voice Telephone Terminals,
Draft 6, 1985
ECMA (European Computer Manufacturers Association), Electrostatic Discharge
Susceptability, TR/23, Sept. 1984
SAE Standard Recommended Practice Information Report J-121, June 1978,
pp. 20-99
Underwriters Laboratories Inc. Standard UL 1023, Household Burglar-Alarm Units,
May 13, 1983, pg. 33
Second, in summary, note the following models are used:
(all models are a capacitor with a resistor between the cap and the equipment)
IEC --> 150pf and 150 ohms, currently under revision to 100pf and 500 ohms.
Cap is charged to positive 15 kV max.
EIA --> 100pf and 500 ohms to 10 kV, 60 pf and 10,000 ohms to 20 kV.
NEMA -> 100 pf and 1500 ohms. 20 kV max.
SAE --> 300 pf and 5000 ohms.
UL --> 250 pf and 1500 ohms.
ECMA -> 150 pf and 1000 ohms. (150 pf and 20 ohms for equipment carts)
(real-world discharges can be as high as 25 kV to an extreme of 30 kV)
If you can figure out what all this means, then my hat's off to you!
--
--==---==---==--
.. So rested he by the Tumtum tree, ..
ARPA: cgs@umd5.UMD.EDU BITNET: cgs%umd5@umd2
UUCP: ..!uunet!umd5.umd.edu!cgscolwell@mfci.UUCP (Robert Colwell) (02/22/89)
In article <577@xroads.UUCP> wiz@xroads.UUCP (Mike Carter) writes: >In article <8724@dasys1.UUCP>, gts@dasys1.UUCP (G. T. Samson) writes: >> Basically, what I want to do is build a circuit that simulates the >> "zap", or spark, you get when you drag your sock-clad feet around >> on a carpeted floor in the wintertime, then touch something that's >> grounded. Unfortunately, the only thing I know about the "zap" is >> that it's a very high-voltage, low-current thing. >> >Greg; If you're indeed interested in High Voltage experiments I suggest >firstly obtaining a book about TESLA coils from your local library. >What its appears you wanted is a STATIC generator, or Van De Gram Generator. >Such devices are very DANGEROUS. It's not the actual shock that could kill >you, it's your reaction to the jolt. High Static discharges can also pose >a health hazzard. A Van De Graff Generator is nothing to stick your finger >into. I second what Mike says about safety. If you plan to be careful, here's a couple more thoughts. When I was little, I had a Van de Graf generator, a small one that was hand-cranked. It was about a foot high, and we had loads of fun with it. (Everybody sit in a circle holding hands, the one on the end touching a metal vent or something.) You could get sparks up to 1" or so out of it. Except for the classic "get shocked, jerk your arm back, and ram your elbow into something hard" scenario, I think it was relatively safe. If you're into BIG sparks, you could track down the guys at the Univ. of Pgh. who had a lightning simulator built of a huge rack of capacitors back in the mid '70's. Now *there* was electrical energy to stay away from. Bob Colwell ..!uunet!mfci!colwell Multiflow Computer or colwell@multiflow.com 175 N. Main St. Branford, CT 06405 203-488-6090
sfox@norstar.Duluth.MN.ORG (Scott Fox) (02/23/89)
In article <577@xroads.UUCP> wiz@xroads.UUCP (Mike Carter) writes: >Greg; If you're indeed interested in High Voltage experiments I suggest >firstly obtaining a book about TESLA coils from your local library. >What its appears you wanted is a STATIC generator, or Van De Gram Generator. >Such devices are very DANGEROUS. It's not the actual shock that could kill >you, it's your reaction to the jolt. High Static discharges can also pose >a health hazzard. A Van De Graff Generator is nothing to stick your finger >into. The charge on the globe of a VDG generater is dependant on 1) is surface area and 2) its distance from its reference (not necessarily ground) I built a generator with a metal salt shaker for a charging element. In DRY conditions it would generate a 1 to 1.5 inch spark. Roughly it takes 10,000 volts to jump one inch. The current was zilch. >There are other projects you could use. Jacob's ladders are easily contructed >using two wire coat hangers and an old neon tube transformer. Definitely dangerous. High voltage, high current, high heat (this is what makes the arc rise) >I would highly advise against building one though..even very, very careful >folks like myself get **ZAPPED** enough times through the years to know >better than to ->play-< with high voltage. >I've built a few dangerous tesla coils before and have been fortunate only >to have been rendered unconcious by them for brief periods. The old >club I belonged to made a very LARGE Tesla coil and used it a few times. The >results to nearby computer equipment was costly. > Also dangerous, high voltage, high rf (burns and skin punctures through close but not direct contact with the electrode, due to the high rf, direct contact will allow the energy will travel over the surface of the skin, you hope) >If you want a cheap way out, I suggest buying a stun-gun from your local >"self-protection" outfit. Those are minature Tesla coils....far safer than >the 20 Million volt jobs. Those will kill you. >ve heared o few horror stories about pilots getting thrown accross the >blacktop before static bleeders. They often died. > Still too much rf, all you want is static electricity. Any encyclopedia will have a pictorial schematic of a VDF generator or look into a Wimshurst (how do you spell it) machine. >High voltage is not a toy...just beware. Definitely, as was stated, it is YOUR reaction to a high voltage shock, using my rough estimate from above, I have been hit with ~180,000 volts. All the shock caused was a muscle twitch in my hand. This from a VDF generator with a 24 inch globe that was (foolishly) insulated from its reference (appx 14 inches away). Using nitrogen to dry out the atmosphere inside the belt column, and a dehumidifier to dry out the room we were able to generate 1 30 inch lightning bolt. The reference for the spark was my lab partner, who walked through the door of the office late for class. He went flying back out the office door. In retrospect it was the funniest thing I've ever seen, he could, however, have been killed. Scott
hgw@julia.math.ucla.edu (Harold Wong) (02/24/89)
In article <375@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >Also, if you build a Jacobs ladder device (two bars with a spark jumping >between it) be aware that besides the neato 'lightning', it is generating >very large amounts of RF. By playing around too long to such a device you >can cause damage to soft tissue in your body. RF works like microwaves, >heating up tissues and water, essentially cooking you from the inside out. Besides that, you're creating ozone (O ) nasty stuff. The same way lightning 3 does it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harold Wong (213) 825-9040 UCLA-Mathnet; 3915F MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA 90024-1555 ARPA: hgw@math.ucla.edu BITNET: hgw%math.ucla.edu@INTERBIT
ken@cs.rochester.edu (Ken Yap) (02/24/89)
|Also, if you build a Jacobs ladder device (two bars with a spark jumping |between it) be aware that besides the neato 'lightning', it is generating |very large amounts of RF. By playing around too long to such a device you |can cause damage to soft tissue in your body. RF works like microwaves, |heating up tissues and water, essentially cooking you from the inside out. | |This may be a slight exageration, but be careful! Yes, it might be a slight exaggeration. Firstly microwaves ARE radio emissions. Secondly the microwaves used in cooking are at a particular frequency that make water molecules vibrate. Furthermore the level in an oven is intense. I think you would cook faster standing in the sun than standing near a JL. But care is advised, yes. And irate neighbours might complain about RF interference. PS: Why not just get a nylon carpet and a dehumidifier and generate the real thing? :-)
phil@aimt.UU.NET (Phil Gustafson) (02/28/89)
If you want sparks that are only on the order of the ones you make shuffling
on a floor, try one of the anti-static pistols sold at stereo stores.
These have a lever trigger that distorts a peiziolectric crystal, making
a charge dissipated by one or two needle-like electrodes.
The idea of these is to discharge vinyl disks to keep them from attracting
dust.
They cost $30 or so.
phil
--
Phil Gustafson, Graphics/UN*X Consultant
{uunet,ames!coherent}!aimt!phil phil@aimt.uu.net
1550 Martin Ave, San Jose, Ca 95126