rsilvers@palladium.UUCP (rsilvers) (08/02/89)
Hi. I just bought an NAD 5340 CD player with serial digital out. I wanted digital out so that when I could afford a DAT unit, I could copy my CDs. Why would I wan't to copy my CDs you ask? So I can make "party" tapes of various songs, and so that I can play them in my car. I believe that since DAT tape players are not as shock-sensitive as CD players, they will become more popular for automotive use. This is my question. It says in my documentation that the copy protection bit is always set on my digital out, even if the CD I am playing does not have it set. This is not good. Does it seem possible that the engineers that designed this made this defeatable? Perhaps there is a diode I can clip, etc. I know of scanners that cannot recieve cellular phone, until you clip a diode. Any thoughts? Maybe the DAT recorders will have an unadvertised "feature" like this. The Sony-Betamax case won in court. It allows you to make a single copy of any copywrited material for your own use. I do not think this should be ignored in the DAT issue. I am tired of advancing technology being crippled. --Rob. -- Robert S. Silvers Epoch Systems, Inc., 313 Boston Post Rd. West, Marlborough, MA 01752 ...!linus!alliant!palladium!rsilvers -or- ...!harvard!cfisun!palladium!rsilvers (508)481-3717
spcecdt@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Space Cadet) (08/05/89)
In article <752@palladium.UUCP> rsilvers@palladium.UUCP (rsilvers) writes: > > Hi. I just bought an NAD 5340 CD player with serial digital out. >I wanted digital out so that when I could afford a DAT unit, I could >copy my CDs. Why would I wan't to copy my CDs you ask? So I can make >"party" tapes of various songs, and so that I can play them in my car. >I believe that since DAT tape players are not as shock-sensitive as CD >players, they will become more popular for automotive use. >Robert S. Silvers Unfortunately, CDs use a sampling frequency that is different from the one consumer DAT decks record at. This was intended specifically to prevent copying of CDs. DAT decks can play tapes recorded at either frequency, so they can play prerecorded tapes of the same source used for CDs, but getting a consumer DAT deck to record at that sampling rate would involve a *lot* of work. Of course, one must wonder how long it will be before we see a purely digital sampling rate converter available capable of interpolating samples at the correct rate from a CD output. This sampling rate incompatibility copy protection may stop less determined copiers, but the more determined ones will *always* find a way... >Epoch Systems, Inc., 313 Boston Post Rd. West, Marlborough, MA 01752 >...!linus!alliant!palladium!rsilvers -or- ...!harvard!cfisun!palladium!rsilvers >(508)481-3717 John DuBois spcecdt@ucscb.ucsc.edu ...!ucbvax!ucscc!ucscb!spcecdt
bill@bilver.UUCP (Bill Vermillion) (08/06/89)
In article <752@palladium.UUCP> rsilvers@palladium.UUCP (rsilvers) writes: (portion deleted about using a DAT to copy CDs - wjv) > The Sony-Betamax case won in court. It allows you to make a single >copy of any copywrited material for your own use. I do not think this >should be ignored in the DAT issue. I am tired of advancing technology >being crippled. You have the results of the Betamax decision wrong. The decision said it was legal to video tape programs that were broadcast by TV stations. That is all it applied to. It did not apply to copies of tape, copies from pay for view, copies from any cable system. The latter will never be brought to court, as you can pick up any video section of a major newspaper and see the local cable systems noting certain movies as beind "ideal for home taping". You are talking about "fair-use" provisions and possibly "first sale" provisions of the copyright law. -- Bill Vermillion - UUCP: {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd}!peora!tarpit!bilver!bill : bill@bilver.UUCP
pcf@galadriel.bt.co.uk (Pete French) (08/07/89)
From article <752@palladium.UUCP>, by rsilvers@palladium.UUCP (rsilvers): > > I wanted digital out so that when I could afford a DAT unit, I could > copy my CDs. Why would I wan't to copy my CDs you ask? So I can make > there is a diode I can clip, etc. I know of scanners that cannot > recieve cellular phone, until you clip a diode. Any thoughts? Maybe > the DAT recorders will have an unadvertised "feature" like this. > Is this bit on a parallel port ? Surely all you need to do is to not wire the bit when you make up rthe lead to the DAT ! Or hae I made some great error in my assumptions here . -Pete. --------- There now follows some lines in a desperate attempt to persuade my news software that I have more new lines that verbatim ones in this article ! ---------
rabin@cs.qmc.ac.uk (Rabin Ezra) (08/10/89)
In article <752@palladium.UUCP> rsilvers@palladium.UUCP (rsilvers) writes: > This is my question. It says in my documentation that the copy >protection bit is always set on my digital out, even if the CD I am >playing does not have it set. This is not good. Does it seem possible >that the engineers that designed this made this defeatable? Perhaps >there is a diode I can clip, etc. I know of scanners that cannot >recieve cellular phone, until you clip a diode. Any thoughts? Maybe >the DAT recorders will have an unadvertised "feature" like this. No. (It is not easily defeatable, or someone has egg on their face) No. (DAT recorders will probably echo the bit on the tape) You would probably need to build a little box to read the data stream, knock out the bit, and then forward it. While you were at it, you could also do a digital domain conversion to 48kHz sampling rate as most domestic DAT players, though they will play at 32/44.1/48 will only digitally accept 32 and 48. The other option is to buy one of the super expensive DAT recorders that have been touted for profesional use. These don't have the limitation, probably as one of the proposed uses is for recording the mixdown for CD masters. Still, what is wrong with an analogue copy, if this is for in car use. The artifacts introduced by 48k sampling of the 44.1 signal (Which should be clean of any conversion nosie before it gets out the player) will be so minute that I doubt that you could detect them in a really good home setup, let alone the noisy environment of a car. Happy listening, -- Rabin Ezra UUCP: rabin@qmc-cs.UUCP PhD Student, JANET: rabin@uk.ac.qmc.cs Dept of Computer Science, ARPA: rabin@cs.qmc.ac.uk Queen Mary College, <If the gateway bounces try : Mile End Road, rabin%cs.qmc.ac.uk@cunyvm.cuny.edu > London E1 4NS. U.K.
kelly@uts.amdahl.com (Kelly Goen) (08/10/89)
I SUSPECT that the beaurocrats really do have egg on their faces for this one...plans will probably hit one of the hobbyist magazine before the recorders are really in wide distribution....
cheers
kelly
disclaimer: i DONT REPRESENT AMDAHL CORP OR ONLINE CONSULTING I ONLY REPRESENT
MYSELF!!jk3k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joe Keane) (08/11/89)
In article <1183@sequent.cs.qmc.ac.uk> rabin@cs.qmc.ac.uk (Rabin Ezra) writes: >The artifacts introduced by 48k sampling of the 44.1 signal (Which should be >clean of any conversion nosie before it gets out the player) will be so minute >that I doubt that you could detect them in a really good home setup, let alone >the noisy environment of a car. If you do it right, there are no aritfacts. The original signal contains no energy above 22.05KHz, so you can represent it exactly with 48KHz sampling. So you do some hairy matrix crunching, put them algorithm in ROM for a DSP, and sell the thing for big bucks. Oh yes, it happens to have a switch remove the copy-protection bits. BTW, i think the choice of 44.1KHz sampling was unfortunate. I can hear a 22KHz tone, but even if you can't, harmonics in that range still have a definite effect on how music sounds. I'll show you sometime...
jj) (08/11/89)
In article <sYsSd7600V4G80VdtN@andrew.cmu.edu> jk3k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joe Keane) writes: >If you do it right, there are no aritfacts. The original signal contains no >energy above 22.05KHz, so you can represent it exactly with 48KHz sampling. So >you do some hairy matrix crunching, put them algorithm in ROM for a DSP, and ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ (this statement is not incorrect, but... >sell the thing for big bucks. Will you dudes go out and get a copy of Crochiere and Rabiner's "Multirate Digital Signal Processing", please, and become familiar with absolutely standard interpolation/decimation techniques that can handle this problem? Please. No, I won't write (another) tutorial on interpolation/decimation. No, I didn't save the last one. No, I don't save back articles for nut.audio, it's not worth the disc space. -- To the Lords of *Mail to jj@alice.att.com or alice!jj Convention *HASA, Atheist Curmudgeon Division 'Twas Claverhouse *Copyright alice!jj 1989, all rights reserved, except Spoke *transmission by USENET and like free facilities granted.
reb@squid.rtech.com (Richard Baum) (08/14/89)
In article <sYsSd7600V4G80VdtN@andrew.cmu.edu> jk3k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joe Keane) writes: >If you do it right, there are no aritfacts. The original signal contains no >energy above 22.05KHz, so you can represent it exactly with 48KHz sampling. So >you do some hairy matrix crunching, put them algorithm in ROM for a DSP, and >sell the thing for big bucks. Oh yes, it happens to have a switch remove the >copy-protection bits. I want a box - just like that mythical one you described - with the "extra" switch! reb "If you want Internet: reb@rtech.COM or reb%rtech.com@lll-winken.llnl.GOV to end war homeSMail: 861 Washington Ave Westwood, NJ 07675 h:201-666-9207 and stuff you've got to sing loud - so people can hear you!" - Arlo Guthrie