BHB3@PSUVM.BITNET (11/30/89)
Would the following idea work:
Suppose the reciever horn of a detector is mounted in front of the engine grill
etc. in a hidden location. Right behind the horn would be a microwave amplifie
r circuit. That would feed into a cable. The cable would run to a well shield
ed reciever. This system would not emit the 11.5 Ghz frequency that the
radar detector detection systems use.
Brent H. Besler
FOrd Motor Scientific Res. Labwelty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) (11/30/89)
In article <89333.113354BHB3@PSUVM.BITNET>, BHB3@PSUVM.BITNET writes:
*Suppose the reciever horn of a detector is mounted in front of the engine grill
*etc. in a hidden location. Right behind the horn would be a microwave amplifie
*r circuit. That would feed into a cable. The cable would run to a well shield
*ed reciever. This system would not emit the 11.5 Ghz frequency that the
*radar detector detection systems use.
the real problem is that radar detector designers are lazy bums,
and every detector made today for X and K bands stole the basic
CMI design that uses 11.5Ghz; the detector detector boxes used
in Canada take advantage of this, as it means that they only have
to look for one single frequency. a detector used an appropriately
chosen alternative frequency (or frequencies) would not be
detectable with the current detector detector.
richard
--
richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York
..!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty welty@lewis.crd.ge.com
``i've got a girlfriend with bows in her hair,
and nothing is better than that'' -- David ByrneBHB3@PSUVM.BITNET (12/01/89)
In article <2837372069@lewis.crd.ge.com>, welty@lewis.crd.ge.com (richard welty) says: > >In article <89333.113354BHB3@PSUVM.BITNET>, BHB3@PSUVM.BITNET writes: >*Suppose the reciever horn of a detector is mounted in front of the engine l >gril >*etc. in a hidden location. Right behind the horn would be a microwave e >amplifi >*r circuit. That would feed into a cable. The cable would run to a well d >shiel >*ed reciever. This system would not emit the 11.5 Ghz frequency that the >*radar detector detection systems use. > >the real problem is that radar detector designers are lazy bums, >and every detector made today for X and K bands stole the basic >CMI design that uses 11.5Ghz; the detector detector boxes used >in Canada take advantage of this, as it means that they only have >to look for one single frequency. a detector used an appropriately >chosen alternative frequency (or frequencies) would not be >detectable with the current detector detector. > >richard >-- >richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York >..!crdgw1!lewis.crd.ge.com!welty welty@lewis.crd.ge.com > ``i've got a girlfriend with bows in her hair, > and nothing is better than that'' -- David Byrne Has anyone seen plans in Radio Electronics or Popular Electronics for a radar detector. It might be possible to make a system that used say 8 Ghz and 25 Ghz separate oscillator circuits. This would fool the RD detector. Brent H. Besler Ford Motor Scientific Res. Labs
billk@hpsad.HP.COM (Bill Katz) (12/02/89)
Brent Beseler writes: >Would the following idea work: > >Suppose the reciever horn of a detector is mounted in front of the engine grill >etc. in a hidden location. Right behind the horn would be a microwave amplifie >r circuit. That would feed into a cable. The cable would run to a well shield >ed reciever. This system would not emit the 11.5 Ghz frequency that the >radar detector detection systems use. > Brent H. Besler > FOrd Motor Scientific Res. Lab Yes, it is possible for a system such as you describe to be built that would not radiate the local oscillator. In addition to a preamp, a filter would also help. (You would ideally have a separate filter/preamp/ mixer for each band) As you state you would also need a well shielded receiver. This is a non-trivial task, depending on how close you want to be able to get without your LO being detected. Shielding 11GHz effectively is tough, but can be done. I doubt it can be done at the prices they sell commercial radar detectors for. ______________________________________________________________________________ _ /| -ACK! Bill (the) Katz Internet: billk@hpsad.hp.com \'o.O' -PFHHHT! Hewlett-Packard UUCP: hplabs!hpsad!billk =(___)= -COUGH! Signal Analysis Div. Phone: (707) 794-2300 U -ACK! 1212 Valley House Dr. Fax: (707) 794-4452 Rohnert Park, CA 95428 ______________________________________________________________________________
BHB3@PSUVM.BITNET (12/05/89)
In article <1840016@hpsad.HP.COM>, billk@hpsad.HP.COM (Bill Katz) says: > >Brent Beseler writes: > >>Would the following idea work: >> >>Suppose the reciever horn of a detector is mounted in front of the engine l >gril >>etc. in a hidden location. Right behind the horn would be a microwave e >amplifi >>r circuit. That would feed into a cable. The cable would run to a well d >shiel >>ed reciever. This system would not emit the 11.5 Ghz frequency that the >>radar detector detection systems use. >> Brent H. Besler >> FOrd Motor Scientific Res. Lab > > > Yes, it is possible for a system such as you describe to be built >that would not radiate the local oscillator. In addition to a preamp, a >filter would also help. (You would ideally have a separate filter/preamp/ >mixer for each band) As you state you would also need a well shielded >receiver. This is a non-trivial task, depending on how close you want to >be able to get without your LO being detected. Shielding 11GHz effectively >is tough, but can be done. I doubt it can be done at the prices they sell >commercial radar detectors for. > >______________________________________________________________________________ > > _ /| -ACK! Bill (the) Katz Internet: billk@hpsad.hp.com > \'o.O' -PFHHHT! Hewlett-Packard UUCP: hplabs!hpsad!billk > =(___)= -COUGH! Signal Analysis Div. Phone: (707) 794-2300 > U -ACK! 1212 Valley House Dr. Fax: (707) 794-4452 > Rohnert Park, CA 95428 >______________________________________________________________________________ I searched for plans or kits for detectors and came up with a simple design in the July 1986 Radio Electronics. It is not a superhet circuit, but it would be a no emmision system if it works as well as claimed. It would need to have a spearate circuit for K and X. My knowledge of microwabe circuit is pretty minimal, but we have a good 1984 book on solid state microwave circuit in the library and it seems IMPATT diodes work well as low noise microwave amps. A clever detector would use spearate oscillator circuits not working at 11.5 Ghz. Of couse importing detectors into Cananda is probably illegal, but then CMI adds to seem to hint they ship to Canada. If price were not an object, it would be a good product. Brent H> besler
yap@me.utoronto.ca (Davin Yap) (12/06/89)
BHB3@PSUVM.BITNET writes: >not working at 11.5 Ghz. Of couse importing detectors into Cananda is >probably illegal, but then CMI adds to seem to hint they ship to Canada. >If price were not an object, it would be a good product. Nope, not everywhere, in Alberta radar detectors are legal. In Ontario, the bastards will empty your scrotum if they find you with one, but in Manitoba where detectors are also illegal, you can buy detectors virtually anywhere, so long as they never find their way into a car ;-). You can buy one, but you have to take it home on a bus! Cheers, Davin --
besler@cgl.ucsf.edu (Brent H. Besler%Kollman) (12/07/89)
My cousin and his wife live in Ingersoll, Ontario. That is why when I think of Canadian law and such, I am familiar with Ontario. A summery of rec.auto posts reveals in Ontarion they can confiscate detectors and that there is a $60 fine. Current OPP policy is not to confiscate those of US citizens, but if you have an attitude problem the cop can do it. SUch things are remote detectors or trying to hide one. Brent H. Besler
nemeth@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Gabe Nemeth) (12/07/89)
Not only can they confiscate the detector in ontario, but they can strip your car (at your cost!) to look for one if they have sufficient suspicion. /leonard
woods@robohack.UUCP (Greg A. Woods) (12/15/89)
In article <1989Dec5.125245.2627@me.toronto.edu> yap@me.utoronto.ca (Davin Yap) writes: >BHB3@PSUVM.BITNET writes: >>not working at 11.5 Ghz. Of course importing detectors into Cananda is >>probably illegal, but then CMI adds to seem to hint they ship to Canada. >>If price were not an object, it would be a good product. > >Nope, not everywhere, in Alberta radar detectors are legal. I'm not too sure about this. The last time I was in Alberta (1983) they were definitely illegal, and you would be asked to back your tire onto any radar detector found on-board your vehicle. I believe that prior to 1979 or 1980 they were legal in Alberta. Definitely illegal here in Ontario. The situation in Saskatchewan is similar to that of Manitoba, if memory serves me right. (There was some discussion about this when I was home in October, but I'm not clear as to the outcome.) I've used a detector which seems to react to other detectors. The only other possible explanation for its behavior would be that every speeding truck I've met in New England is also talking on a cellular phone! Although nobody has confirmed it, the rumor is that the local highway police use this brand of detector as a detector-detector. Personally I don't like radar detectors. After a very short time you come to rely upon them, and if you forget about the tricks sometimes used, or are in un-familiar territory, you are just as likely to be caught. The best thing is to be very observant, and don't get your speed up too high. An example of a common trick used by the highway police in these parts is this: An officer stands (or sits in a vehicle) on an over-pass. When he thinks he's spotted a target, he pulls the trigger. By that time the target is past the un-marked cruiser on the side of the road, who see's the brake lights come on as the detector goes off as his partner radio's "radar contact made", or another officer down the road waits for the described vehicle and pulls it over. This works well even in heavy three lane traffic. Other tricks are parking on the up-side of a small dip in the road such that the radar signal doesn't have much range, or even parking in-line with a known "false" signal! And no, I've never been caught while using a detector, and I've not bought a ticket in over 8 years of steady driving. I have heard stories, and through careful observation saved a few friends from buying tickets. -- Greg A. Woods woods@{robohack,gate,tmsoft,ontmoh,utgpu,gpu.utcs.Toronto.EDU,utorgpu.BITNET} +1 416 443-1734 [h] +1 416 595-5425 [w] VE3-TCP Toronto, Ontario; CANADA
emmo@moncam.co.uk (Dave Emmerson) (12/20/89)
In article <1840016@hpsad.HP.COM>, billk@hpsad.HP.COM (Bill Katz) writes: > Brent Beseler writes: > > >Would the following idea work: > > [Discussion on shielding 11.5 GHz receiver] Why bother? As soon as it spots the 'Kojak with the Kodak', it shuts down the HF, bleeps you, and waits for you to re-activate it (in case you get pulled in anyway). Damn sight cheaper! Funny, ain't it, the government has access to technology up to a year ahead of the citizen, but it takes them a year to use it 'cause of their own red tape. The 'under-the-counter' market doesn't have this handicap..... Happy Christmas! Dave E.