bkoball@cup.portal.com (Bruce R Koball) (05/27/90)
smithju@motcid.UUCP (Justin A. Smith) writes: >strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong) writes: >>If the temperature range does not exceed normal environmental >>temperatures, (0 - 100C) I would strongly advise a semiconductor sensor >>instead of a thermistor. The output is quite linear. There are several >>designs around using a transistor and an ordinary DVM chip, the whole >>thing operating from a 9v battery. > > What type of semiconductor sensor would i use, where can i get these??, >i would also like to see some data sheets/designs using these sensors. >Are they expensive?. They are CHEAP!! They are easily available!! They are called TRANSISTORS!! (that's what the man said :-) For a forward biased base-emitter junction at constant current and a sufficiently large forward voltage, an approximation is: VBE = (kT/q)ln(If/Isat) where: VBE = base-emitter voltage k = Boltzmann's constant T = junction temperature in degrees K q = net charge in coulombs If = forward current Isat = saturation current This yields a temperature coefficient of approx. -2.5mv/deg C for a garden variety, small-signal transistor (e.g., 2N2222A) forward biased at approx. 100uA. There are some temperature dependent terms in Isat which complicate matters a bit, but the net result is a temperature sensor with linearity comparable to a platinum RTD (albeit with a more limited working temp range). The problem is that this tc varies from device to device, so using off-the- shelf parts in a product design requires matching devices for DC gain (hFE) and VBE at room temp. The solution: Motorola offers a family of parts, called MTS102, MTS103 and MTS105 for which they do just that; they screen parts from one of their standard, small-signal transistor lines for matched hFE and VBE. They offer them in matched lots at very good prices (well under $1.00 in reasonable quantities) and usually are happy to sample you. I have used these parts with nothing more than a simple JFET constant-current source and an 8-bit SA A/D and achieved < +-1 degree C from -40 C to +100 C (Mot rates the MTS102 at +- 2 degree C from -40 C to +140 C). One down-side is the relatively long thermal time constant (8 sec in flowing air) because they're in TO-92 plastic packages, so don't count on these things for quick response. (This is perhaps the only area where thermistors shine; because they can be fabricated in extremely small sizes, their thermal mass and time const. can be very low). If you're just hacking and are willing to calibrate the tempco yourself, then any good small signal transistor should do. Good references on these parts and the use of transistors in general as temp. sensors are: MTS102, 103, 105 Data Sheet, Motorola Semiconductors, DS2536 R1, 1981. O'Neil, P. and Derrington, C., "Transistors - a hot tip for accurate temperature sensing", Electronics, 11 Oct 1979. Ohte, A. and Yamagata, M., "A Precision Silicon Transistor Thermometer", IEEE Transactions on Instrumentation and Measurement, Vol. IM-26, Dec 1977 Bruce R. Koball Motion West 2210 Sixth Street Berkeley, CA 94710 415-540-7502 bkoball@cup.portal.com
skip@rafos.UUCP (Skip Carter) (05/31/90)
In article <1990May19.003327.12503@agate.berkeley.edu>, aephraim@typhoon.Berkeley.EDU (Aephraim M. Steinberg) writes: > ...... However, there are chips (AD590, perhaps?) put > out by Analog Devices, which give a current they claim to be absolutely > proportional to the temperature in Kelvins, accurate to 2 or 5%, depending > on how much you pay. Also depending on how accurate your 5V supply is, > .... > If anyone knows any more about these chips or relatives of theirs, I'd be > interested to hear about it. > We have looked at these chips for in situ temperature measurements in the deep ocean. They don't seem to be as precise or as stable as a good thermistor, so we went back to using thermistors. (Some labs I know of buy thermistors a year in advance and keep them on a shelf for a year -- they claim vastly improved stability when they do this). By STABILITY, I mean that I always get the same measurement for the same temperature (Its far more important for ocean measurements to get 17.15 everytime I measure 17.3 degree water, than it is to get closer to 17.3) -- Skip Carter UUCP: uunet!rafos!skip School of Oceanography INTERNET: skip@rafos.gso.uri.edu University of Rhode Island Phone: 401-792-6519 Narragansett, RI 02882