wehmer@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (James Wehmer) (07/12/90)
Next month East Central Illinois Bell Telephone is going to a local calling system where you pay about 5 cents for every local call you make. The phone company estimates that my bill will just about double. I have three teenagers and two lines with call waiting on both lines. We have had some trouble in the past with our kids making unauthorized long distance calls. One month alone, one kid made $300 worth. We solved that problem by having AT+T install a security code for long distance calls, and it has stopped the abuse. My current problem is how to regulate the local calls now that we must pay for every call. I want a system where the kid must go to some central location, put a nickle into a box, and all the phones in the house will be activated for one and only one call. At all other times I still want to be able to receive incomming calls. This system sounds a lot like the standard pay telephone at a gas station and we could have one installed if I can't come up with another option. How does the circuitry in a pay phone work? How can I sence when the call is over? How can I still allow incoming calls? I have a BS. in EE so a complex circuit is no problem and the labor I put in should pay off in the long run. But this sort of thing has been done before and I don't want to re-invent the wheel, so I'm asking for ideas. Thanks in advance!
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (07/13/90)
In article <1990Jul12.143201.2416@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wehmer@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (James Wehmer) writes: > My current problem is how to regulate the local calls now that we >must pay for every call. I want a system where the kid must go to some >central location, put a nickle into a box... Have you considered just telling the kids "okay, you can afford your own phone now"? (Not just an extension, but their own line, that they pay for.) That will solve most of these problems much more simply. -- NFS: all the nice semantics of MSDOS, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology and its performance and security too. | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. DeArmond) (07/13/90)
> Next month East Central Illinois Bell Telephone is going to a local >calling system where you pay about 5 cents for every local call you make. >The phone company estimates that my bill will just about double. I have >three teenagers and two lines with call waiting on both lines. We have had >some trouble in the past with our kids making unauthorized long distance >calls. One month alone, one kid made $300 worth. We solved that problem >by having AT+T install a security code for long distance calls, and it has >stopped the abuse. Hmm.. Someone else seeking a technical bandaid for a failure to dicipline.. Ah yes, parenting in the 90's. What ever happened to the good old American backhand? But I digress.... > My current problem is how to regulate the local calls now that we >must pay for every call. I want a system where the kid must go to some >central location, put a nickle into a box, and all the phones in the >house will be activated for one and only one call. At all other times >I still want to be able to receive incomming calls. This system sounds >a lot like the standard pay telephone at a gas station and we could have >one installed if I can't come up with another option. > How does the circuitry in a pay phone work? How can I sence >when the call is over? How can I still allow incoming calls? I have a >BS. in EE so a complex circuit is no problem and the labor I put in >should pay off in the long run. But this sort of thing has been done >before and I don't want to re-invent the wheel, so I'm asking for >ideas. Thanks in advance! Assuming you want to address this dicipline problem with technology, the solution is pretty easy and simple enough that even I, with a BSHS (BS, High School) can understand it :-) Look in the phone book and find a place that repairs or sells video arcade games. Buy an inexpensive coin mechanism. The push-in type like you find on old pinball machines should not cost over $20 or so. Then look in the book and find a place that sells industrial electrical supplies and buy a delay-on-drop time delay relay settable in the range of 0 to 3 minutes. Then go to Radio Shack and buy a DPDT sensitive coil relay, a 0.47 ufd capacitor, a reed switch and a box to put all this mess in. Finally find an old phone from which you can snarf the bell. Hook the goodies up as follows. Connect one line of the phone so that it goes through one of the NO contacts of the relay and then through the coil (coil and contact in series.) Hook the 0.47 ufd cap across the relay coil, which bypasses audio around the inductance of the coil. Connect the TDR power input leads to a 117vac cord (through a fuse if you are timid.) through one of the NC contacts of the sensitive relay. There will be 2 terminals on the TDR that trigger the relay. connect these to the momentary closed contacts on the coin changer. Connect the NO contact in parallel with the NO contact on the sensitive relay. Finally, remove the bell ringer and resonating capacitor. Throw away the gongs and clappers so that only the coils are left. Mount the coils and the reed relay such that when incomming ring voltage appears, the reed relay is pulsed on each cycle. This will take some trial and error as the bell contains a bias magnet. Connect the bell across the incomming phone line and connect the reed switch in parallel with the coin mechanism contact. Put this mess in the enclosure and run your main phone trunk through it. The circuit works as follows: Inserting a coin into the coin mechanism momentarily closes the contacts on it. When they close, the TDR activates and completes the phone circuit through the NO contact of the TDR and through the sensitive relay coil and capacitor. The phone circuit is now activated, though no loop current is flowing yet because no phone is off-hook. When the coin changer contact opens an instant later, the TDR begins its timeout cycle. When it expires, the NO contact opens and again breaks the phone circuit. If while the TDR is timing out, a phone is taken off-hook, the loop current pulls in the sensitive relay, closing the sensitive relay NO contact and bypassing the TDR. At the same time, the other NC contact on the sensitive relay opens dropping power to the TDR and resetting it. Thus, as long as the phone is off-hook, the sensitive relay is sealed in and the phone works. The instant the phone is hung up, the sensitive relay drops out and the phone circuit is broken until a coin is again inserted. The TDR delay provides a grace period to allow the YA to get to his/her favorite phone after depositing the coin. For incomming calls, the ring voltage energizes the reed switch which activates the TDR and completes the phone loop. The TDR will keep the loop complete between rings and for long enough for you to answer. Part of the first ring will be lost in activating the reed switch but the rest will come through. A problem exists in that flashing the hook in order to pick up a call-waiting call will drop the relay. If that is a problem, simply place a large electrolytic capacitor across the relay in addition to the 0.47 mfd cap. This cap must be sized experimentally to provide hold-in current during a flash. I'd guestimate that about 10,000 mfd would work with a typical RS sensitive relay. Of course, a simple solution does present itself. Simply have all the YAs (yard apes) contribute money to a cookie jar from which the phone bill is paid each month. No money, no talkie. Peer pressure is amazing in its ability to regulate phone use. Simple, easy and no batteries required. John --- John De Armond, WD4OQC | We can no more blame our loss of freedom on congress Radiation Systems, Inc. | than we can prostitution on pimps. Both simply Atlanta, Ga | provide broker services for their customers. {emory,uunet}!rsiatl!jgd| - Dr. W Williams | **I am the NRA** -- John De Armond, WD4OQC | We can no more blame our loss of freedom on congress Radiation Systems, Inc. | than we can prostitution on pimps. Both simply Atlanta, Ga | provide broker services for their customers. {emory,uunet}!rsiatl!jgd| - Dr. W Williams | **I am the NRA**
brian@ucsd.Edu (Brian Kantor) (07/13/90)
PacBell tells me they'll install a pay phone in your business or home and charge you for it. But it seems to me that your problem is better solved by negotiation, authority, and cooperation than by technology. - Brian
whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) (07/14/90)
In article <1990Jul12.143201.2416@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wehmer@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (\ James Wehmer) writes: > >We had trouble in the past with our kids making unauthorized long distance >calls. One month alone, one kid made $300 worth. We solved that problem >by having AT+T install a security code for long distance calls, and it has >stopped the abuse. > My current problem is how to regulate the local calls now that we >must pay for every call. I want a system where the kid must go to some >central location, put a nickle into a box, and all the phones in the >house will be activated for one and only one call. The phone lines all have standard plugs? And there are phones for sale ($4.95 or so) at the local K-mart? You'll have to armor the phone wiring, and if a burglar shows up (or someone's arteries get severed), you'll need to find a nickel before you can call the emergency services. I'd look into instilling some simple discipline, instead. Getting the kids their own phone services is a thought, but... you'd have to post a deposit for them (no, the phone company is NOT obliged to take the risk of nonpayment). John Whitmore
rustyh@wam.umd.edu (Rusty Haddock) (07/17/90)
In article <1990Jul12.143201.2416@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wehmer@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (James Wehmer) writes: > > My current problem is how to regulate the local calls now that we >must pay for every call. I want a system where the kid must go to some >central location, put a nickle into a box, and all the phones in the >house will be activated for one and only one call. At all other times >I still want to be able to receive incomming calls. This system sounds >a lot like the standard pay telephone at a gas station and we could have >one installed if I can't come up with another option. > How does the circuitry in a pay phone work? How can I sence >when the call is over? How can I still allow incoming calls? I have a >BS. in EE so a complex circuit is no problem and the labor I put in >should pay off in the long run. But this sort of thing has been done >before and I don't want to re-invent the wheel, so I'm asking for >ideas. Thanks in advance! I have a pay-phone at home. I picked it up a ham flea market last year. It is one of the new bread of COCOTs (or Customer Owned Coin Operated Telephone). Unlike the phone company's sets these phones must do all the rate calculation and call completion detection by themselves. A ROM holds the rate information (based on the location of the phone and the number to be called) and a rudimentry FFT is performed on the first few words of the called party's response to determine if the call has been established. My phone was made by a company in Sarasota Florida called ELCOTEL. It has a box made by AT&T (Western Electric) , so it looks exactly like a Bell-Atlantic type pay-phone, but Elcotel made the electronics. If you buy one from them it will cost you alot more than the $100 it cost me! AT&T will also sell you a COCOT. I also saw some of the panel mount phones (like you see in shopping malls) in a surplus store in Pheonix Az called MHZ electronics. (Might be worth a try). regards, Michael. _______________________________________________________________________ Michael Katzmann Broadcast Sports Technology Amateur | vk2bea (Australia) 2135 Espey Ct, Radio | g4nyv (U.K.) Crofton MD. Stations | nv3z (U.S.A.) ...uunet!mimsy!arinc!vk2bea!michael -- Rusty Haddock o {uunet,att,rutgers}!mimsy.umd.edu!fe2o3!rusty Laurel, Maryland o "IBM sucks silicon!" -- PC Banana Jr, "Bloom County"
kimf@arrester.caltech.edu (Kim Dorian Flowers) (07/17/90)
jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. DeArmond) writes: >> Next month East Central Illinois Bell Telephone is going to a local >>calling system where you pay about 5 cents for every local call you make. >>The phone company estimates that my bill will just about double. I have >>three teenagers and two lines with call waiting on both lines. We have had >>some trouble in the past with our kids making unauthorized long distance >>calls. One month alone, one kid made $300 worth. We solved that problem >>by having AT+T install a security code for long distance calls, and it has >>stopped the abuse. >>[...] >> My current problem is how to regulate the local calls now that we >>must pay for every call. I want a system where the kid must go to some >>central location, put a nickle into a box, and all the phones in the >>house will be activated for one and only one call. At all other times >>I still want to be able to receive incomming calls. This system sounds >>a lot like the standard pay telephone at a gas station and we could have >>one installed if I can't come up with another option. >>[...] How much WOULD it cost to have a pay phone installed? Kim Flowers kimf@tybalt.caltech.edU
ins_atge@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Thomas G Edwards) (07/18/90)
In article <3175@rsiatl.UUCP> jgd@rsiatl.UUCP (John G. DeArmond) writes: concerning home built payphone for teen-agers... >Of course, a simple solution does present itself. Simply have all >the YAs (yard apes) contribute money to a cookie jar from which >the phone bill is paid each month. No money, no talkie. >Peer pressure is amazing in its ability to regulate phone use. >Simple, easy and no batteries required. Notice though that parental technological solutions to problems will over time result in the increased technological ability of children who will figure out a way to get around the "solution." Of course, I think this is good. But of course, it's not my phone bill ;-). If the kids are seen up on the roof, assume they are cutting though the insulation to "tap" into the line. -Thomas (know many phone phreaks who got their start from parental LD call pressure)