isolated@alix.UUCP (20 James D. Corder) (08/02/90)
Hello Net People:-) I am sorry, I know that this has probably been talked about a million and one times, but I need some help:-) How do you get a patent on something that you invented? Can I patent something that is made to repair someone elses equipment? Should I use their drawings of their equipment or create my own? What is a "Small entity" vs an "other than a Small Entity"? Do you need an attorney? The one that I talked to wanted $6180.00 just to read my paperwork, and do a search. How much of the work can I do myself? What would it cost to get the patent? I got the book from the U.S. Department of Commerce, Patent and Trademark office titled "General Information Concerning patents". It confused me more than helped me. Some back ground: I work for a company that is the authorized service center for a piece of equipment. I have been repairing this equipment for about 2 1/2 years. There are three parts to this equipment that the 1000lb motor, until now, had to be removed to see if they were defective. The labor alone, well... For the past two years not only myself but the other 200+ service centers have been asking for some type of test equipment. I have been told that they could not create such a device. Well, I just did. The manufacture, not my company, found out about it:-( It is my opinion that they are now trying to re-create my work. Therefore, I want to patent it before they can complete theirs. About a year ago I design a cooling unit for this equipment and gave it to them. All I wanted was the credit and to name it. They produced the unit inch for inch wire for wire, the same. However, all I got was P.O'ed. I am under no obligation verbal or contractual to my employer. They could care less. My job is management not R&D. Therefore, they do not want my invention. I have made all equipment on my own time with my money. This time I want to hand them a patent. I am not looking for money. Just a simple thank you. Therefore, I have to watch my cost for getting a patent. Oh, I'll sell it to them if they ask:-) Thank you for your time and consideration, James D. Corder ...osu-cis!alix!jdc ...att!osu-cis!alix!jdc alix!jdc@cis.ohio-state.edu
brosen@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Bernie Rosen- zeroone) (08/02/90)
In article <297@alix.UUCP> isolated@alix.UUCP (20 James D. Corder) writes: > > > How do you get a patent on something that you invented? You can apply for a patent, as you know. > Can I patent something that is made to repair someone elses equipment? Yes > Should I use their drawings of their equipment or create my own? You need to provide drawings of your own device and, as I recall, it's ok to show parts of other drawings (but see notes below) > What is a "Small entity" vs an "other than a Small Entity"? I've no idea > Do you need an attorney? The one that I talked to wanted $6180.00 just > to read my paperwork, and do a search. Yes (see below) > How much of the work can I do myself? The more the better > What would it cost to get the patent? Several thousand dollars Several years ago I invented a first aid / medical training device that linked a prosthetic leg with a computer which allowed the computer to display leg movement. After talking with a local patent attorney, I provided him with drawings and a detailed description of the parts, how they were connected and how the device worked, etc. He reworked what I gave him and did the correspondance with the patent office. Our first attempt was rejected but we made it the second time around. The important point is that patent applications are as much an art form as anything else. If your application is too broad (plastic bottle which dispenses liquid) it will be rejected. If it is too specific (plastic bottle and trigger assembly which dispenses a thin stream of liquid) you may lose out when someone patents a similar device (like with a variable spray adjustment). The cost was, for me, about $3000, which included patent searches and the two tries to get the patent. The more time the attorney has to spend, the more it will cost (that's why the more you do the better). If your lawyer charges by the hour (most do), multiple re-writes and re-applications can drive the cost way up. Be sure to find out how yours will charge. Hope this helps. And don't waste any time. Sounds like several people know what you are up to and time is your worst enemy. That's another reason to get a good patent attorney. Bernie
jws@thumper.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) (08/02/90)
I second the motion that you waste no time. There is a time limit from "date of disclosure" - the time you show or tell ANYONE (even your wife, according to an attorney I talked to) what your invention is. A patent gives you the right to prevent others from manufacturing and selling the thing you have invented. If you don't plan to make and sell it or plan to license the patent to collect royalties, then there isn't much point to chasing the patent except the satisfaction of having one (everybody should, I don't). If you plan to just make a few of the whatzits and the market and profit potential are limited, you could just go bare. By offering the first one for sale, you have disclosed it to the public and nobody else can patent it afterward (well, they might fool the patent office, but it would not be valid once you show the first ad with publication date, etc. If you do go bare, however, you should at least write up what you did and send a "Disclosure of Invention" to the patent office. You have some time after that to proceed further, but the simple (and cheap) act of disclosure prevents any competitor from patenting what you did. OF COURSE I WOULD NOT BE DISPENSING UNQUALIFIED LEGAL ADVICE SO I ADVISE YOU TO AT LEAST DISCUSS THIS WITH A LAWYER SO DON'T SUE ME BLEAHHH!
ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) (08/03/90)
With the talk of the mega-lawsuits nowadays, having a successful patent seems
impossible unless you have tons of money and an army of weasels in pin-striped
suits to defend it. How can the small-time entrepeneur hope to achieve success
if some enormous conglomerate sics its lawyer-force on him and takes his
marvelous invention away?
It's depressing to think about.
Eric
--
Eric Sheppard Georgia Tech | "Of course the US Constitution isn't
Atlanta, GA | perfect; but it's a lot better than what
ARPA: ce1zzes@prism.gatech.edu | we have now."
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!ce1zzesjeh@dcs.simpact.com (08/04/90)
In article <12134@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) writes: > With the talk of the mega-lawsuits nowadays, having a successful patent seems > impossible unless you have tons of money and an army of weasels in pin-striped > suits to defend it. How can the small-time entrepeneur hope to achieve success > if some enormous conglomerate sics its lawyer-force on him and takes his > marvelous invention away? > > It's depressing to think about. This is pretty much the opinion of Don Lancaster (of _TTL Cookbook_, etc., fame). He says that not one patent in ten will survive an aggressive search for prior art; that in a quick-moving field like electronics or computers, the patent process is so slow compared to the rate of progress in the field that by the time a patent is granted the state of the art will have passed it by; that most big corporations will gladly pay their legal department $100K to bust your patent before they'll pay you $10K in royalties; that, all things considered, not one patent in ten will ever net any profits for its holder or assignees. He's written a book, _The Incredible Secret Money Machine_, about how to turn your avocation into a successful one-person business. Among many other things, he covers the above points and tells you how to make money from your ideas withOUT patenting them. I higly recommend this book to anyone who is considering becoming a small-time entrepreneur. The publisher is Howard Sams, Inc. --- Jamie Hanrahan, Simpact Associates, San Diego CA Internet: jeh@dcs.simpact.com, or if that fails, jeh@crash.cts.com Uucp: ...{crash,scubed,decwrl}!simpact!jeh
pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M. Koloc) (08/05/90)
In article <12134@hydra.gatech.EDU> ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) writes: > >With the talk of the mega-lawsuits nowadays, having a successful patent seems >impossible unless you have tons of money and an army of weasels in pin-striped >suits to defend it. How can the small-time entrepeneur hope to achieve success >if some enormous conglomerate sics its lawyer-force on him and takes his >marvelous invention away? > >It's depressing to think about. If the technology is commercially very viable and the patents are strong "parent" type that can be built on with development of the commercial item, THEN it's not such a problem. Just find a mean, lean corporation in Germany, Japan or the United States (there are one or two left) that would be interested in taking an "exclusive" license for manufacturing or /and distributing your product. They will provide the resources for the protection. Also, make sure that your deal with the company allows you to have access to their research and that YOU license them for any further patentable improvements you come up with. That way your patent royalties will be extended over both generations, and the since the original inventor (perhaps et al.) has applied for the improvement patents, the courts are usually disposed favorably toward the granting of said improvement patents. With a modern desk top and 50K$ worth of software YOU can do the essentials of A modest size corporation So why Not? +---------------------------------------------------------+**********+ + +Commercial* | Paul M. Koloc, President (301) 445-1075 ***FUSION*** | Prometheus II, Ltd.; College Park, MD 20740-0222 ***in the*** | mimsy!prometheus!pmk; pmk@prometheus.UUCP **Nineties** +---------------------------------------------------------************
Mike.McManus@FtCollins.NCR.com (Mike McManus) (08/10/90)
In article <1527.26b95e5d@dcs.simpact.com> jeh@dcs.simpact.com writes: > In article <12134@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ce1zzes@prism.gatech.EDU (Eric Sheppard) writes: > > With the talk of the mega-lawsuits nowadays, having a successful patent > > seems impossible unless you have tons of money and an army of weasels in > > pin-striped suits to defend it. > > This is pretty much the opinion of Don Lancaster (of _TTL Cookbook_, etc., > fame). He says that not one patent in ten will survive an aggressive search > for prior art; that in a quick-moving field like electronics or computers, > the patent process is so slow compared to the rate of progress in the field > that by the time a patent is granted the state of the art will have passed > it by; that most big corporations will gladly pay their legal department > $100K to bust your patent before they'll pay you $10K in royalties; that, > all things considered, not one patent in ten will ever net any profits for > its holder or assignees. The company I work for is large enough that my division has it's own office of "pin stripes" to take care of patent filing, etc. The disclosure gets you a cash award, as does filing and final patent award, so even if your application doesn't make it, you still get something along the way. Of course, the company holds the actual patent, but that's no big deal. As was pointed out, the possiblity of getting any significant royalties from a patent in the electronics field these days is slim, though it may occasionally happen (usually in the form of licensing aggreements). So why go to the expense of searching and filing a patent? For large companies, the name of the game is to build your portfolio. Then my company can go to a competitor (say, IBM, for example) and say, "We've got a portfolio of 1200 patents. We'll swap license aggreements on all of them for your portfolio." It becomes a leverage tool, so that license agreements don't cost boo-koo bucks. Chances are, there are one or two good, licenseable products in the whole lot, as well as a few others that may help avoid possible infringement down the road (or at least avoid the expense of tracking such issues down). And of course, it looks good on the company stat sheet to say, "We filed for 30 patents this year...". But if I were an individual, I would have to think long and hard about filing a patent. If you want to do it just to have the patent, I think that's great, but if you plan to make money off it, I wouldn't hold my breath. -- Disclaimer: All spelling and/or grammar in this document are guaranteed to be correct; any exseptions is the is wurk uv intter-net deemuns,. Mike McManus Mike.McManus@FtCollins.NCR.COM, or NCR Microelectronics ncr-mpd!mikemc@ncr-sd.sandiego.ncr.com, or 2001 Danfield Ct. uunet!ncrlnk!ncr-mpd!garage!mikemc Ft. Collins, Colorado (303) 223-5100 Ext. 378