slbg6790@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mephisto) (07/31/90)
I might be moving to Europe (namely, 'West' Germany) in the near future, and I would like to bring my thousands of dollars worth of stereo, computer, and music synthesizer gear over to keep me company. All of these are designed to run on good old 60 Hz/120 VAC power. Is there some way I can use the European 50 Hz/220 VAC power grid to set up my own little Ameri-friendly power grid? A monstrous transformer might solve the voltage conversion problem, but the cyclic base is beyond me. Is the cyclic rate really that important? I'd really rather not leave my toys behind. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "All opinions expressed are those of my employer, and not necessarily my own." Post reply or e-mail to: slbg6790@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu -"Have you got anything without Spam in it?" "Well, there's 'Egg, Bacon, Spam, and Sausage.'" -"That's got Spam in it!" "Not as much as 'Spam, Eggs, Sausage, and Spam'!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ <EOF>
robin@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Robin Amano) (08/01/90)
In article <1990Jul31.154929.27950@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> slbg6790@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mephisto) writes: > > I might be moving to Europe (namely, 'West' Germany) in >the near future, and I would like to bring my thousands of dollars >worth of stereo, computer, and music synthesizer gear over to keep >me company. All of these are designed to run on good old 60 Hz/120 VAC >power. Is there some way I can use the European 50 Hz/220 VAC power >grid to set up my own little Ameri-friendly power grid? A monstrous >transformer might solve the voltage conversion problem, but the cyclic I used to work in an electronics store and we used to sell these ready I used to work in an electronics store and we sold transformers equiped to be plugged into the wall. I think the brand name was Franzus. They made them for different wattages for foreign power. Actually they were mainly made for travel, like hair dryers, razors, etc. I think they would power most of your stuff, except maybe your stereo amp and synth amp - depending how powerful. As far as 50hz is concerned, any computer monitor or tv made for 60hz won't work. this was mainly a test. my video is screwing up.
robin@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Robin Amano) (08/01/90)
In article <1990Jul31.154929.27950@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> slbg6790@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mephisto) writes: > > I might be moving to Europe (namely, 'West' Germany) in >the near future, and I would like to bring my thousands of dollars >worth of stereo, computer, and music synthesizer gear over to keep >me company. All of these are designed to run on good old 60 Hz/120 VAC >power. Is there some way I can use the European 50 Hz/220 VAC power >grid to set up my own little Ameri-friendly power grid? A monstrous >transformer might solve the voltage conversion problem, but the cyclic >base is beyond me. Is the cyclic rate really that important? I'd >really rather not leave my toys behind. Sorry about the mess up in the last message, I'm having a power problem. I used to work at an electronics store and we sold foreign power converters. I think they were made by Franzus. Although I think they were mainly made for travel like hair dryers, razors, etc. They were sold in different wattages and could probably power most of your stuff, except maybe your power amp and synth amp / depending on wattage. As far as 50HZ is concerned, any tv, computer monitor, or etc. that is made for 60HZ will not work. This was a few years ago, check with an electronics dealer they may have better equipment by now.
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (08/01/90)
In article <1990Jul31.154929.27950@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> slbg6790@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mephisto) writes: >... All of these are designed to run on good old 60 Hz/120 VAC >power. Is there some way I can use the European 50 Hz/220 VAC power >grid to set up my own little Ameri-friendly power grid? A monstrous >transformer might solve the voltage conversion problem, but the cyclic >base is beyond me... Changing the frequency is really only practical by brute force: a motor- generator set or the electronic equivalent. I would call this impractical for home use. > Is the cyclic rate really that important? I'd >really rather not leave my toys behind. Unfortunately, the only real answer is "it depends". A lot of the most modern equipment really doesn't care very much, notably most things with switching power supplies. If you look at the little labels on the back, many of them will say "50-60 Hz", or something even more tolerant like "48-62 Hz". (A good many of them, in fact, don't care whether the incoming voltage is 110 or 220, although you need to change power cords AND FUSES to convert. Others need a switch flipped or a little gizmo taken out and reinserted in a different position, but will run on 220.) However, transformers have trouble running at lower frequencies than they are designed for, so anything electronic that is labelled "60 Hz" may be in trouble. I don't think there's any easy way around it. There are also issues of regulatory approval, notably for anything that has to attach to phone lines. Quite apart from the problems of different connectors, US approval means nothing abroad, and making the connection legally may be impossible. (The modem situation in Germany, in particular, was pretty grim last I heard.) Don't expect them to be as easygoing about unauthorized connections, either. Of particular note is that the fire insurance on your home may be invalid if unapproved (meaning, not approved by the local authorities, foreign approvals notwithstanding) is plugged in. -- The 486 is to a modern CPU as a Jules | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology Verne reprint is to a modern SF novel. | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
karn@envy.bellcore.com (Phil R. Karn) (08/02/90)
Be careful with power converters. There are two main types: transformers and half-wave rectifiers. Many travel kits contain one of each type. You can tell them apart by their power ratings. The transformer unit is seldom rated for more than 50w, while the rectifier unit can handle a kilowatt. But the latter produces a substantial DC component that will destroy any load with a power transformer. Use them ONLY on resistive or AC/DC motor loads such as heaters, incandescent lamps, hair dryers, hand drills, etc. Do NOT use them on equipment that uses power transformers or induction motors. If your electronics have 120/240v switches, use them. This includes most export models of foreign made equipment, including PC clones. All you then need is a power cord with the right plug type (or an adaptor). If you have equipment that runs only off 120V (e.g., most computer monitors), go buy a true 240/120v stepdown transformer. You can find models up to 500w at most electronics stores. Most loads will work as well on 50Hz as on 60. The only exception are those that have synchronous motors, such as clocks and some turntables. Phil
fmgst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Filip Gieszczykiewicz) (08/02/90)
Greetings. Along those lines, how would a UPS (Battery power) be helpful in this situation. They are used with computers to give users several minutes of power if the line goes dead. Could it be possible to make a 50Hz 220V circuit to charge the batteries of the US made 60Hz, 115V and then use the US output... 220V, 50Hz --> battery (gel) ----> 115V, 60Hz That way, not only does one get the 115Volts but also most 60Hz-only computer equipment should work. Anyone? P.S. I'm not sure if the battery could take that much "punnishment" continously.... -- _______________________________________________________________________________ "The Force will be with you, always." It _is_ with me and has been for 10 years Filip Gieszczykiewicz "A man without a dream is like a fish without water." FMGST@PITTVMS or fmgst@unix.cis.pitt.edu "My ideas. ALL MINE!!"
josef@nixpbe.UUCP (Moellers) (08/02/90)
In <1990Jul31.154929.27950@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> slbg6790@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mephisto) writes: > I might be moving to Europe (namely, 'West' Germany) in >the near future, and I would like to bring my thousands of dollars >worth of stereo, computer, and music synthesizer gear over to keep >me company. All of these are designed to run on good old 60 Hz/120 VAC >power. Is there some way I can use the European 50 Hz/220 VAC power >grid to set up my own little Ameri-friendly power grid? A monstrous >transformer might solve the voltage conversion problem, but the cyclic >base is beyond me. Is the cyclic rate really that important? I'd >really rather not leave my toys behind. 1. Look at the back of Your equipment. Some devices can be switched between various voltages. 2. Although most power supplies, after tranforming the line voltage down to whatever is needed, rectify it, the transformers themselves are dimensioned to the Herz rating. They will work less good when given the wrong number of Herz. It's not that they won't work at all, they'll just get hot and You might not get out of them what You need. 3. I recently had American VCR and TV at my home here in Jerryland. A freindly colleague (sp?) borrowed them to me so that my mum could view a Video cassette that was taped on an NTSC camera. Apart from the transformer (small plug-in one for the VCR, large one for the TV), no problems. But then the TV was a portable one and might also work on 12V= (I didn' look). -- | Josef Moellers | c/o Nixdorf Computer AG | | USA: mollers.pad@nixbur.uucp | Abt. PXD-S14 | | !USA: mollers.pad@nixpbe.uucp | Heinz-Nixdorf-Ring | | Phone: (+49) 5251 104662 | D-4790 Paderborn |
cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gordon Hlavenka) (08/03/90)
>... Is there some way I can use the European 50 Hz/220 VAC power >grid to set up my own little Ameri-friendly power grid? You probably should look at a UPS. The good ones take the input power, convert it to DC, and then float off of batteries to a 60Hz inverter. I doubt that the UPS would care what the input frequency was, as long as there was power there. (They might look for a failure by timing the input waveform and looking for missing half-cycles, but 50Hz should be close enough to keep them happy.) Of course this is not going to be cheap, but you probably expected that... ---------------------------------------------------------- Gordon S. Hlavenka cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us Disclaimer: He's lying
root@bio73.unsw.oz (Karl Redell ) (08/03/90)
I would be surprised if a 240/120 power converter used just a 1/2 wave rectifier. It is much more likely to use a triac or sometthing similar. I tried to convert a 120V hot air corn popper to run on 240V. It was not easy. First I bunged a diode in series with the thing - thinking that half of 240 was going to be 120. The corn popper motor screamed and looked like a light bulb. (That is the heater looked like a light bulb). It took awhile to figure out what was going on here because everyone I asked also thought that half of 240 was 120. Then, one day, my friend Mark Hellier said "That's easy - you've still got 240 on the thing. Power is proportional to the voltage SQUARED so without the diode you are putting in 4 times as much power as if it was running on 120 volts. The diode then cuts it back to twice as much power. No wonder it's running hot!" A light dimmer worked just fine for the heater element, but the waveform was no good for the motor. It looked like I might have to build a 30V 2 amp supply for the dinky motor, but I got around that by putting a suitable arrangement of fluorescent light capacitors in series with the motor and the 240V supply. One final note - if your equipment is not rated for 50Hz, then you MUST reduce the voltage to your equipment by the ratio of the frequencies - in this case 120V X 50/60 = 100V. (does not apply to heaters and other resistive loads, of course) Failure to do this will cause induction motors and other such devices to burn out in as little as 1 hour. If it was me, I'd leave your stuff at home. karl@bio73.unsw.oz.au
wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) (08/04/90)
I hate to disagree with someone as knowledgable as Phil; thus I am glad to have Henry on my side;_} It does "depend". There is a class of devices that you can deep_six at once: ferroresonant (i.e. SOLA) transformers/power conditioners. Also, anything that derives timing information from the line is SOL. Now, as for the motor/ transformer equipped ones: If you tolerate the motor running at about 66% of the normal speed, and the motor is conservatively designed, you could get away with it. A window fan, for example, will likely survive. So will an electric clock. (Don't reply with the obvious.......) If the device has a big power transformer, the odds just fell. Especially in consumer products, the design margin is generally about .0001% ;-} That hunk of iron COSTS! And [unlike that ASIC chip] it does NOT get cheaper when you make 100,000 per year, so tune your nose for that lovely smell of money burning..... Thus, chances are the tuner and CD player will be fine, but that new Saturn V 1000 watt RMS/channel amp won't be. But of course, there are exceptions. My boss used his 60 hz microwave in Kenya for 5+ years with no hassle. He also claimed that the slower clocks helped him adjust to the pace of life overseas. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.....wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu & no one will talk to a host that's close............(305) 255-RTFM Unless the host (that isn't close)......................pob 570-335 is busy, hung or dead....................................33257-0335
jeff@xanadu.com (Jeff Crilly N6ZFX) (08/24/90)
In article <1272@bio73.unsw.oz> root@bio73.unsw.oz (Karl Redell ) writes: >I would be surprised if a 240/120 power converter used just a 1/2 wave >rectifier. It is much more likely to use a triac or sometthing similar. > >I tried to convert a 120V hot air corn popper to run on 240V. It was not >easy. First I bunged a diode in series with the thing - thinking that >half of 240 was going to be 120. When I lived overseas we had 220 and 110 wiring in the house. The funny thing is that all the outlets used the same type of plug: standard 110v type. So you really had to know which were which. Anyhow, our solution to running 110v stuff off of the 240v outlets was to use a transformer. They were real cheap and in great abudance. This was in the Phillippines. BTW, everything was 60hz, but the voltages ranged +/- 5%. When we moved back to the states the our TV had a larger picture. ---------------------------------------------------- Jeff Crilly (N6ZFX) AMIX Corporation 2345 Yale Street Palo Alto, CA 94306 jeff@amix.com, {uunet,sun}!markets!jeff ----------------------------------------------------