[sci.electronics] RF Interference from Taxi CB's

aieta@ils.nwu.edu (Michael Aieta) (08/25/90)

Is there any effective way to eliminate interference on my 
home Musical PA System (Mixing Board, Tape Machine, and Power Amps)

The interference I get is strictly from (what I assume to be highly illegal)
boosted CB signals from what sounds to me like Pakistani cab drivers in 
the city.  It can be VERY VERY loud, much louder than any signal coming out
of my mixer, and it occurs even with the volume from the 
mixing pre-amp is all the way down.  I have balanced microphones running into
the mixer (along with line-level signals).  This sum is in turn fed to both
a tape machine and the power amplifiers through normal 'guitar' cable (1/4"
2 -wire cable).

All gear fed into the system is connected to the same ground running to
a cold water pipe that runs to the bottom of the apartment building (I am
on the third floor) and I assume it goes underground somewhat from there.

I reduced the lengths of the cables running from the mixer to the amplifiers
to attempt to keep them from acting as antennae.  It seemed to make
a small bit of difference, i.e. the cabbies still come through but somewhat
lower and less clear (at least last night they were quieter,although they
might have just been farther away.

So, down to my questions to you RF,audio,radio,CB,op-amp buffs!

How do I shield the cables running from the mixer to the amps?
Do you run a twisted pair with a true shield that you attach to a ground
at the mixer/pre-amp side only?  Both sides?  Neither?

How would I go about putting an RF filter (I have some basic schematics from
the FCC for TV's, stereos etc.) on my power amps?  On my mixer?  The mixer
is an Alesis 1622 for you musicians, for you techies it is a monolithic 
integrated circuit so I don`t believe I can isolate any pre-amp
components per se.

How exactly do I get these and how do they get broadcast so f%*#ing loud?
How much power are these guys putting out?  FCC limits are 4W, but it sounds
to me like these guys are cranking out hundreds.

I have even jotted down plate numbers of cabs that are sporting 20 ft. antennae
with fat bases and big coils wrapped around them, and I don't mean to sound
prejudiced in any way, but it sure is some coincidence that these airwave
pirates all sound (and look when I see the bigass antennae) like either Indians
or Arabs - i.e. Paki's.

Please no flames from Indians, Paki's, or Arabs, as I am sure there are plenty
of plain ol' honky's, Black, and Hispanic, etc. cabbies that are equally
offensive to the airwaves, it is just that in my area that is all I hear.

Any suggestions, solutions to similar problems?

dg9g@maxwell.acc.Virginia.EDU (David Guercio) (08/25/90)

>Is there any effective way to eliminate interference on my 
>home Musical PA System (Mixing Board, Tape Machine, and Power Amps)

Put .001uF bypass capacators across your input cables at both ends.  You
can solder them inside the jacks on the cables, if you buy the smallest
capacitors that you can find.  Radio Shack components are fine for this.

If this doesn't work, send me some e-mail, and I'll suggest some more
stuff.

>I have even jotted down plate numbers of cabs that are sporting 20 ft.
>antennae with fat bases and big coils wrapped around them, and I don't

You probably keep your neighbors up with your power amps, so you
ought to leave these guys alone.  I used to be one of these 'Pakis',
myself.

David Guercio

depolo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jeff DePolo) (08/27/90)

In article <1491@anaxagoras.ils.nwu.edu> aieta@ils.nwu.edu (Michael Aieta) writes:
>
>
>The interference I get is strictly from (what I assume to be highly illegal)
>boosted CB signals from what sounds to me like Pakistani cab drivers in 
>the city.  It can be VERY VERY loud, much louder than any signal coming out
>of my mixer, and it occurs even with the volume from the 
>mixing pre-amp is all the way down.  I have balanced microphones running into
>the mixer (along with line-level signals).  This sum is in turn fed to both
>a tape machine and the power amplifiers through normal 'guitar' cable (1/4"
>2 -wire cable).

A while back on rec.ham-radio, as well in a number of the ham rags, there was
a discussion about cab drivers/dispatchers using the 10/11m CB and ham bands
for their communications.  It seems that when the popular 10m mobile radios
(e.g. Uniden and Clear Channel) came out, the cab companies found that
spending $250 on one of these 25 watt sideband/AM rigs was easier than
paying Motorola or GE thousands of dollars and getting real radios.

>How would I go about putting an RF filter (I have some basic schematics from
>the FCC for TV's, stereos etc.) on my power amps?  On my mixer?  The mixer
>is an Alesis 1622 for you musicians, for you techies it is a monolithic 
>integrated circuit so I don`t believe I can isolate any pre-amp
>components per se.

You can start by putting bypass caps across all speaker leads.  You can
experiment with ferrite chokes on some of the other equipment.  I've had
good luck installing chokes inside equipment such as preamplifiers
and amplifiers in RF equipment.  The same may work in your situation. On the
shielded cables, try some of the popular wrap-around chokes available at
Radio Shack and from most other electronics shops.  You will probably find
only one or two critical paths that the RF is getting in from.  Try coiling
all of your cables into tight loops as close as possible to where they 
connect to any equipment.  In general, try everything until you can narrow
it down.  The problem here is that they aren't always transmitting nearby,
so it will be hard to tell what is or isn't working.

>How exactly do I get these and how do they get broadcast so f%*#ing loud?
>How much power are these guys putting out?  FCC limits are 4W, but it sounds
>to me like these guys are cranking out hundreds.

CB transmitters are 4 watts max AM, 12 watts PEP SSB.  4 watts doesn't
sound like much, but if it's nearby, just about anything with a diode
in it becomes an instant receiver.

Complain to your local FCC field office.  If you have  cab numbers and
companies written down, all the better.  Give them all the info.  Chances
are that you won't see any immediate action, but who knows, they may get
around to checking it out.

Good luck.

								--- Jeff

--
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Jeff DePolo  N3HBZ             Twisted Pair: (215) 386-7199                  
depolo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu    RF: 146.685- 442.70+ 144.455s (Philadelphia)  
University of Pennsylvania     Carrier Pigeon: 420 S. 42nd St. Phila PA 19104