phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (08/30/90)
In article <1990Aug30.012428.14541@mthvax.cs.miami.edu> wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) writes: |As for hospital grade-forget it. You CAN price one-it will help |you understand why your last medical bill was so steep. Speaking of hospitals, there's one around here (Kaiser) that seems to like to install all their outlets "upside down", with the ground of the three prong outlet on top. I thought they were just incompetent (scary thought in a hospital) but they are pretty consistent about it. Is there method to this madness? -- Phil Ngai, phil@amd.com {uunet,decwrl,ucbvax}!amdcad!phil
streeter@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Kenneth B. Streeter) (08/31/90)
In article <1990Aug30.165822.19356@amd.com> phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: > >Speaking of hospitals, there's one around here (Kaiser) that seems >to like to install all their outlets "upside down", with the ground >of the three prong outlet on top. I thought they were just >incompetent (scary thought in a hospital) but they are pretty >consistent about it. >Is there method to this madness? Well, I'm not quite sure why you see there being a problem with mounting the outlets with the three-prong groud on top. As far as I know, there is no real "reason" for the conventional setup with the single ground below the two "active" wires. In fact, I have heard it proposed that the "upside-down" setup is safer. Why would the setup with the single ground on top be safer? Well, if the plug sagged from the outlet a little, it would expose some of the ground pin on top. Anything dropped onto the exposed portion would contact the ground pin. With the "conventional" setup, the dropped item would contact one, or both of the "live" pins. The rationale for the ground-on-top being safer is that things are more likely to be dropped than they are "flung up" from below the socket. For all practical purposes, however, I see the two arrangements being essentially equivalent, although it is somewhat annoying to not have a consistent setup (whichever it may be.) -- Kenneth B. Streeter | ARPA: streeter@im.lcs.mit.edu MIT LCS, Room NE43-350 | UUCP: ...!uunet!im.lcs.mit.edu!streeter 545 Technology Square | (617) 253-2614 (work) Cambridge, MA 02139 | (617) 225-2249 (home)
zonker@ghoti.lcs.mit.edu (Regis M Donovan) (08/31/90)
There is no "correct" orientation for electrical outlets... I have seen this discussed in all sorts of electrical publications... (an article in EC&M a while back comes to mind...) There are some people who prefer to have them mounted ground-up, especially where there is equipment with supply cords that fit better when ground-up. Some people like them installed ground up so that the receptacle face on a standard duplex receptacle doesn't look like a little "face" watching them (with the ground as the mouth and the slots as eyes... (NO! REALLY! Some people think this way...)). Other people prefer to have them mounted ground up so that an object dropped across the plug will short out against ground or not-short against the neutral. Most people are more accustomed to the ground-down configuration, but there are a number of GFIs on the market that have printing on the test-reset buttons such that for the printing to be right side up, the receptacle is mounted in the ground-up position... The only time when orientation of the receptacle is really important is when it is mounted horizontally, it should be mounted neutral-up, so that any conductive foriegn object falling across the prong will not short out or spark across the hot leg... --regis
ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) (08/31/90)
In referenced article, phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >Speaking of hospitals, there's one around here (Kaiser) that seems >to like to install all their outlets "upside down", with the ground >of the three prong outlet on top. I thought they were just >incompetent (scary thought in a hospital) but they are pretty >consistent about it. > >Is there method to this madness? I've even heard contractors arguing about this one, and the modern building I'm now in has all its outlets "upside-down". The only good argument I've heard is that when upside down, a not-fully-inserted plug presents a safer upper surface (the ground pin rather than the live-neutral pins) to falling objects. In the UK, all sockets (outlets) are ground pin up. -- Ray Dunn. | UUCP: ray@philmtl.philips.ca Philips Electronics Ltd. | ..!{uunet|philapd|philabs}!philmtl!ray 600 Dr Frederik Philips Blvd | TEL : (514) 744-8200 Ext : 2347 (Phonemail) St Laurent. Quebec. H4M 2S9 | FAX : (514) 744-6455 TLX : 05-824090
dgs@swdev.Waterloo.NCR.COM (David G. Schwartz) (08/31/90)
In article <1990Aug30.165822.19356@amd.com> phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >Speaking of hospitals, there's one around here (Kaiser) that seems >to like to install all their outlets "upside down", with the ground >of the three prong outlet on top. > >Is there method to this madness? Yes. If you go to pull a plug below about waist level and you grab it by the plug (as you should always do) right against the wall, as you pull it out, your thumb may roll over the front edge. What would you rather have your thumb contact in this situation - the ground pin or the live and neutral? ---- Remember: Net.advice is usually worth what you pay for it. UUCP: uunet!{ncrlnk,watmath}!ncrwat!dmsdev!dgs VOICE: (519) 884-1710 x247 NCR: <dave.schwartz@Waterloo.NCR.COM> VoicePlus: 643-1247 DoD#00066
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (08/31/90)
In article <1990Aug30.165822.19356@amd.com>, phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: > |As for hospital grade-forget it. You CAN price one-it will help > |you understand why your last medical bill was so steep. > > Speaking of hospitals, there's one around here (Kaiser) that seems > to like to install all their outlets "upside down", with the ground > of the three prong outlet on top. I thought they were just > incompetent (scary thought in a hospital) but they are pretty > consistent about it. > > Is there method to this madness? Believe it or not, there is no standard orientation for common duplex receptacles. I know of no standard or recommendation in the NEC or from a receptacle manufacturer. In patient care areas hospitals often use a receptacle having an isolated ground (i.e., the equipment grounding wire is not bonded to the conduit, but is run through a dedicated ground wire). There is a generally accepted designation for such receptacles - an orange or other colored triangle on its face. The receptacle may also be marked with the letters "IG" meaning isolated ground. For whatever reason, all such receptacles that I have seen have printing that is oriented with the ground hole "on the top". Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp. "Have you hugged your cat today?" VOICE: 716/688-1231 {boulder, rutgers, watmath}!ub!kitty!larry FAX: 716/741-9635 {utzoo, uunet}!/ \aerion!larry
erk@americ.UUCP (Erick Parsons) (08/31/90)
>In article <1990Aug30.165822.19356@amd.com> phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >In article <1990Aug30.012428.14541@mthvax.cs.miami.edu> wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) writes: > >Speaking of hospitals, there's one around here (Kaiser) that seems >to like to install all their outlets "upside down", with the ground >of the three prong outlet on top. I thought they were just >incompetent (scary thought in a hospital) but they are pretty >consistent about it. > >Is there method to this madness? Believe it or not some electricians (Good electricians) do this very same thing. The reason I've been told is to allow the ground prong which is by far the sturdiest prong on the "cord cap" (Plug) to support the weight of heavier cords helping them stay plugged in. Seems to me in a hospital this would be a very desirable trait :-) -- -------------------------------------------------//------------------------- (ames att sun)!pacbell! ----> sactoh0!pacengr!americ!erk Multitasking, ucbvax!ucdavis!csusac! --/ // Never leave uunet!msac! -/ Erick Parsons \Sacramento Ca Home Without it --------------------------------------------\X/----------------------------- Please Don't Wait...
wte@sauron.Columbia.NCR.COM (Bill Eason) (08/31/90)
In article <1137@ncrwat.Waterloo.NCR.COM> dgs@swdev.Waterloo.NCR.COM (David G. Schwartz) writes: >Yes. If you go to pull a plug below about waist level and you grab it >by the plug (as you should always do) right against the wall, as you >pull it out, your thumb may roll over the front edge. What would you >rather have your thumb contact in this situation - the ground pin or the >live and neutral? Funny, the only time this has ever happened to me, I was pulling the plug out between my thumb and forefinger, and my forefinger (on bottom) slipped and touched both the hot and neutral prongs. Ooh, I just *hate* that tingly feeling as it creeps up your arm! :-) I really don't think there is a best way, but I, for one, *prefer* to see the little faces looking out of the wall. Kind of the "Oh no, Mister Bill" expression. | | [] | | [] -- Bill Eason (803) 791-6348 <...>bill.eason@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM NCR Corporation E&M Columbia 3325 Platt Springs Road West Columbia, SC 29169
perley@galaxy (Donald P Perley) (09/01/90)
In article <1990Aug30.193451.23567@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, zonker@ghoti (Regis M Donovan) writes: > >There is no "correct" orientation for electrical outlets... What I would like to see is duplex outlets where the two outlets face in opposite directions. Then it could accomodate 2 of those 3 prong plugs where the cord comes off the side. Normally if you try to plug in a second one of those, the cord would have to go where the first plug is already. -don perley perley@trub.crd.ge.com
raoul@eplunix.UUCP (Nico Garcia) (09/01/90)
One consideration on plug orientation people seem to have missed: pulling out stiff plugs. I don't know about your hands, folks, but if I'm grabbing a plug near the ground, I get a much better grip with the flat (hot-neutral) surface on top, under the thumb, and my fingers curled around the pointy (ground) part. That means ground side down, especially if the outlet is someplace weird and only barely accessible, like behind a dresser. -- Nico Garcia Designs by Geniuses for use by Idiots eplunix!cirl!raoul@eddie.mit.edu
parnass@cbnewse.att.com (Bob Parnass, AJ9S) (09/01/90)
In article <1990Aug30.192752.23339@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, zonker@ghoti.lcs.mit.edu (Regis M Donovan) writes: .... > The only time when orientation of the receptacle is really important is > when it is mounted horizontally,... Orientation is also a factor when using those plastic encased, wall mounted power supplies. Their center of gravity (which UL looks at for approval of such devices) seems to favor electrical outlets with the ground connection on the bottom. The justification I heard for having the ground pin at the bottom is that it would be the last connection to break if the force of gravity dislodged a line cord. -- ============================================================================ Bob Parnass, AJ9S - AT&T Bell Laboratories - att!ihlpy!parnass (708)979-5414
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (09/13/90)
Mike.McManus@FtCollins.NCR.com (Mike McManus) writes: >Our house has certain plugs turned "upside down" (ground on top) so that you >know which plug is wired to the local wall switch. Comes in quite handy, >although after a while the home owner would get to know this anyway. I sure >can't think of any "technically practical" reasons for one way over the other, >however. By putting the ground at the top, any falling object that cuts through the cord will contact the ground wire BEFORE contacting the power conductor. This will keep you from being electricuted if you happen to be holding onto the cutting object, by giving the power a shorter distance to ground (the ground wire) than your body. [I am an electrical designer] -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
dbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) (09/16/90)
John Sparks "answers" the debate over the reason for inverting AC outlets: >By putting the ground at the top, any falling object that cuts through the cor d >will contact the ground wire BEFORE contacting the power conductor. This will >keep you from being electricuted if you happen to be holding onto the cutting >object, by giving the power a shorter distance to ground (the ground wire) tha n >your body. >[I am an electrical designer] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If so, then perhaps you could tell the rest of us just WHERE you get the 3-conductor cordage with *absolutely* no twist within the outer sheath? When's the last time you actually looked at the hardware you design?? How's this for a straight-forward possible explanation: When running Romex to a series of outlet boxes, it is not uncommon for the installer to find the wires splice and break out in a sequence that is clumsy for the 'normal', upright, outlet orientation. The lazy way to fix the problem is to invert the outlet... Dave dbell@cup.portal.com
erk@americ.UUCP (Erick Parsons) (09/22/90)
>In article <33967@cup.portal.com> dbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) writes: >John Sparks "answers" the debate over the reason for inverting AC outlets: >>By putting the ground at the top, any falling object that cuts through the cord >>will contact the ground wire BEFORE contacting the power conductor. This will >>keep you from being electricuted if you happen to be holding onto the cutting >>object, by giving the power a shorter distance to ground (the ground wire) than >>your body. > >>[I am an electrical designer] > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >How's this for a straight-forward possible explanation: > >When running Romex to a series of outlet boxes, it is not uncommon for >the installer to find the wires splice and break out in a sequence that >is clumsy for the 'normal', upright, outlet orientation. The lazy way >to fix the problem is to invert the outlet... > >Dave dbell@cup.portal.com Nah... I finished many many houses and after doing 2 or 3 outlet boxes with major splicing involved you quickly get the hang of splicing to have the wires line up correctly. It's been a while though so I can't be certain of the type of help contractors are getting now a days :-) BTW John have you done any more work on your newsreader for Amiga.uucp ? -- -------------------------------------------------//------------------------- (ames att sun)!pacbell! ----> sactoh0!pacengr!americ!erk Multitasking, ucbvax!ucdavis!csusac! --/ // Never leave uunet!msac! -/ Erick Parsons \Sacramento Ca Home Without it --------------------------------------------\X/----------------------------- Please Don't Wait...