llee@rocket.uucp (Leonard Lee) (09/17/90)
Greetings... Has anyone on the net had any experience with a single-chip microcontroller that has approximately the specifications shown below? Here's what I need: - 8 bit CMOS, and with a clock frequency of ~ 3-5 MHz - 2 input bits, 4 output bits ( slightly more OK ) - a small amount of onboard RAM (< 32 bytes) - Pin count of <=24 (this is a must) - must have a version with EPROM or EEPROM (for prototyping) - must have a version with one-time user programmability (for low-volume production) - low cost (of course!) I seem to recall an ad for a few years back about a General Instrument microcontroller (PIC or something) that had only 18 pins, but I don't know if it is fast enough. Len -- ... LEONARD T. LEE Lockheed-Sanders, Nashua, NH 03063
GMoretti@massey.ac.nz (Giovanni Moretti) (09/19/90)
Have you looked at the 8051 derivatives available from Philips (used to be called Signetics in USA). the 87C751 is a 24 pin device with: built in IIC bus (a serial bus for a wide range of peripheral chip, and the controller code is freely available) 19 I/O lines 2K Eprom 64 Byte ram 1 16 bit timer 24 pin chip only 0.3 inch wide (skinny dip) I rang up the local agents about two days ago and found that this chip is NZ$17.00 (probably about US$7) for a one-time-programmed version and about NZ$70 for an Eprom version. They also have other versions with more of all the above, plus two with ADC on board, one five channel 8bit, one 5 channel 16 bit. They also have a IIC demo board which has all sorts of peripheral chips on it ... for about NZ$190. PS I have no connection with Philips - I just think these are a rather nice range of devices. Cheers Giovanni -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Giovanni Moretti, Consultant | G.Moretti@massey.ac.nz, Pkt-ZL2BOI@ZL2BFJ Computer Centre, Massey University| Ph 64 63 69099 x8398, FAX 64 63 505607 Palmerston North, New Zealand | QUITTERS NEVER WIN, WINNERS NEVER QUIT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
torgeirs@ulrik.uio.no (Torgeir Svolsbru) (09/21/90)
But how do you get the program into the EPROM of the 87C751 ? Do they provide an adapter for the use of a standard EPROM-programmer ?
bmw@isgtec.uucp (Bruce M. Walker) (09/25/90)
In article <LLEE.90Sep17091114@dopey.uucp> llee@rocket.uucp (Leonard Lee) writes: > Here's what I need: > > - 8 bit CMOS, and with a clock frequency of ~ 3-5 MHz > - 2 input bits, 4 output bits ( slightly more OK ) > - a small amount of onboard RAM (< 32 bytes) > - Pin count of <=24 (this is a must) > - must have a version with EPROM or EEPROM (for prototyping) > - must have a version with one-time user programmability (for > low-volume production) > - low cost (of course!) > > I seem to recall an ad for a few years back about a General Instrument > microcontroller (PIC or something) that had only 18 pins, but I don't > know if it is fast enough. Len The GI PIC is actually a 12 bit instruction, 4 bit data. They come in 18 pin versions. Take a look inside any BSR X-10 power-line controller, they all have a CMOS PIC inside. The instruction set is as weird as is possible for a human mind to create; that is to say, it makes a Z80 look orthogonal. I don't believe they have an E[E]PROM version, you have to use an expensive development system. Motorola makes a nice CMOS 6805-family part in a 24 pin package. Look for the 1468705xxx where xxx is some string of E's and other upper case letters. Pretty sure there's an OTP version now, too. The instruction set is a 6800's that has been chopped in half -- literally: one 8 bit ACC (instead of two), the X register is 8 bits (instead of 16), etc. Hitachi used to make a better clone of the 6805 called the 6305 and they came in OTP versions, but I think that Motorola litigated these out of existance. Bastards. Hitachi also makes a litigation-proof micro with a "different" instruction set; don't know much about these, but worth checking into. Zilog makes a really neat teeny-weeny version of the Z8 in an 18 pin package. Don't think there's any E[E]PROM version but I could be wrong, Zilog likes making little hybrids for development purposes. TI makes the TMS7000 family: looks like they have both EPROM, CMOS and, I think, small packages (most are 40 pins). I won't mention Intel (oops) because I hate 'em. -- bmw@isgtec.uucp [ ..uunet!utai!lsuc!isgtec!bmw ] Bruce Walker
cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gordon Hlavenka) (09/25/90)
>But how do you get the program into the EPROM of the 87C751 ? >Do they provide an adapter for the use of a standard EPROM-programmer ? You need a programmer that can handle this part. The Phillips/Signetics extensions to the MCS-51 family use a _serial bitstream on the RESET pin_ to put the part into program mode. This is similar to many PALs, but unusual in the EPROM/microprocessor world. A "standard" programmer may not be capable even with a socket adapter. ----------------------------------------------------- Gordon S. Hlavenka cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us Disclaimer: Yeah, I said it. So what?
rick@ofa123.fidonet.org (Rick Ellis) (09/25/90)
On <Sep 21 12:23> Torgeir Svolsbru writes:
TS> But how do you get the program into the EPROM of the 87C751 ?
TS> Do they provide an adapter for the use of a standard EPROM-programmer ?
We have an adapter for our EPROM programmer. I'm don't know who supplied it.
--
Rick Ellis
Internet: rick@ofa123.fidonet.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------stevem@specialix.co.uk (Steven Murray) (09/25/90)
torgeirs@ulrik.uio.no (Torgeir Svolsbru) writes: >But how do you get the program into the EPROM of the 87C751 ? >Do they provide an adapter for the use of a standard EPROM-programmer Adaptors for standard eprom programmers are not practical for this device, due to the specialized timed-signature that has to be inserted down the RESET pin to get the device into program mode. However, a reasonably priced programmer is available from Philips in New Zealand, p.o. box 1041, Auckland, phone (649) 605-914, and Philips in Australia, 11 Waltham St, Artarmon 2064, Sydney, phone (612) 439-3322. I believe these programmers are being sold at not much more than cost price in order to encourage use of the microprocessors. The programmer does chips 87C751/752/87C552/87C451 which I use. Hope this helps - Steven Murray.
chuck@mitlns.mit.edu (09/28/90)
-Message-Text-Follows- In article <656@isgtec.UUCP>, bmw@isgtec.uucp (Bruce M. Walker) writes... >In article <LLEE.90Sep17091114@dopey.uucp> llee@rocket.uucp (Leonard Lee) writes: >> Here's what I need: >> >controller, they all have a CMOS PIC inside. The instruction set is as >weird as is possible for a human mind to create; that is to say, it >makes a Z80 look orthogonal. I don't believe they have an E[E]PROM >version, you have to use an expensive development system. > >Motorola makes a nice CMOS 6805-family part in a 24 pin package. Look >for the 1468705xxx where xxx is some string of E's and other upper case >letters. Pretty sure there's an OTP version now, too. The instruction >set is a 6800's that has been chopped in half -- literally: one 8 bit >ACC (instead of two), the X register is 8 bits (instead of 16), etc. This is obsolete the recomended parts are 68HC... They have bothe registers et. Chuck@mitln.mit.edu
esmith@goofy.apple.com (Eric Smith) (09/28/90)
In article <656@isgtec.UUCP> bmw@isgtec.uucp (Bruce M. Walker) writes: >> I seem to recall an ad for a few years back about a General Instrument >> microcontroller (PIC or something) that had only 18 pins, but I don't >> know if it is fast enough. Len > >The GI PIC is actually a 12 bit instruction, 4 bit data. They >come in 18 pin versions. Take a look inside any BSR X-10 power-line >controller, they all have a CMOS PIC inside. The instruction set is as >weird as is possible for a human mind to create; that is to say, it >makes a Z80 look orthogonal. I don't believe they have an E[E]PROM >version, you have to use an expensive development system. Microchip Technology (what a stupid name!) has EPROM versions, both windowed and OTP. Their versions are fast, too, although it's still a brain-damaged architecture. O.K. for simple needs though. -- Eric L. Smith Opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those esmith@apple.com of my employer, friends, family, computer, or even me! :-)
ray@ole.UUCP (Ray Berry) (09/28/90)
bmw@isgtec.uucp (Bruce M. Walker) writes: >Zilog makes a really neat teeny-weeny version of the Z8 in an 18 pin >package. Don't think there's any E[E]PROM version but I could be >wrong, Zilog likes making little hybrids for development purposes. Zilog has an OTP version of this part called the 86E08; 2K (OTP) EPROM, 128 bytes of ram, in an 18-pin dip. The production counterpart is called the 86C08. An inexpensive card is available that plugs into the serial port of a pc to download hex files (or, the card will also copy a 2716 etc. into the cpu). I think the OTP's are about $8-9 in modest quantities. There are also 2-3 other Zilog parts available in 18 pin dips, offering NMOS as well as CMOS, less rom/ram, etc.; but the E08 is the only eprom/otp version. -- Ray Berry kb7ht uucp: ...ole!ray CIS: 73407,3152 /* "inquire within" */
newton@ils.nwu.edu (David Newton) (09/28/90)
The Microchip Technology PIC16C5X series uses Harvard Architecture, something I wouldn't be quick to call "brain-damaged". This little puppy can bang out 5mips or so, so the lack of address space is really the only problem as far as I see it. It has an 8-bit wide register file, too, unlike the General Instrument part (which I know nothing about save for what is in Eric Smith's article). The combination of low pin count and speed (I think) compensate for the lack of memory/IO, since for many applications, a 4-bit port and an 8-bit port are all that is necessary. I might also add (in fact, I think I will) that Microchip Tech. also produces a version PIC16C57xx that has 2Kx12 EPROM and 80 bytes of 8-bit RAM. The 2K eprom is broken into 4 511-byte pages. Maybe if we hooked an MMU to it? (It's a joke, son...) dln Standard Dis-clamor: I'm not affiliated with Microchip Technology, I just think it's a funky little chip that must be good for something.
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (09/28/90)
In article <1990Sep27.171111.5553@athena.mit.edu> chuck@mitlns.mit.edu writes: >>Motorola makes a nice CMOS 6805-family part in a 24 pin package. Look >>for the 1468705xxx ... > > This is obsolete the recomended parts are 68HC... Recommended for maximizing Motorola's profits, or for best results for the user? :-) If you are designing something to be produced in quantity zillion a year from now, there is a lot to be said for using the latest and greatest parts. If you're a hobbyist dealing in quantity one, there is a lot to be said for "obsolete" parts -- they are generally cheap and widely available, which is (I hear) more than can be said for the 68HC parts. -- Imagine life with OS/360 the standard | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology operating system. Now think about X. | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu (Herb Poppe) (09/28/90)
In article <1672@ole.UUCP> ray@ole.UUCP (Ray Berry) writes: > Zilog has an OTP version of this part called the 86E08; 2K (OTP) EPROM, > 128 bytes of ram, in an 18-pin dip. The production counterpart is called > the 86C08. An inexpensive card is available that plugs into the serial > port of a pc to download hex files (or, the card will also copy a 2716 etc. > into the cpu). I think the OTP's are about $8-9 in modest quantities. > There are also 2-3 other Zilog parts available in 18 pin dips, offering > NMOS as well as CMOS, less rom/ram, etc.; but the E08 is the only eprom/otp > version. If there is not an EEPROM or windowed EPROM version of these devices, what device (or development system) is used to develop/test software. Are the timer(s) in the 18-pin devices capable of measuring the widths of a PWM input while simultaneously generating an independent PWM output? Herb Poppe hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu NCAR (303) 497-1296 1850 Table Mesa Dr. Boulder, CO 80307-3000
dana@lando.la.locus.com (Dana H. Myers) (09/30/90)
In article <1990Sep28.143653.23424@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: [comments about 68HC parts] >If you are designing something to be produced in quantity zillion a year >from now, there is a lot to be said for using the latest and greatest parts. >If you're a hobbyist dealing in quantity one, there is a lot to be said >for "obsolete" parts -- they are generally cheap and widely available, >which is (I hear) more than can be said for the 68HC parts. An example of this is found in the All Electronics catalog.. NatSemi 8048 (or maybe 8049) CPUs with programmed ROMs are $.50 each. Simply strap the EA (External Access) pin true and use an external EPROM+latch - it is equivalent to an 8035L, runs on an 11 Mhz clock, leaves 16 pins of I/O after connecting the EPROM. ***************************************************************** * Dana H. Myers KK6JQ | Views expressed here are * * (213) 337-5136 (ex WA6ZGB) | mine and do not necessarily * * dana@locus.com | reflect those of my employer * *****************************************************************
ray@ole.UUCP (Ray Berry) (10/01/90)
(stuff about 18-pin Zilog Z8 derivatives).. hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu (Herb Poppe) writes: >If there is not an EEPROM or windowed EPROM version of these devices, what >device (or development system) is used to develop/test software. There are development boards available (one I used was $175) that have a 40-pin romless part, a serial port, and breadboard area etc. I did one design by plugging a smart EPROM emulator into the EPROM socket on the dev. board. Worked out ok. Needless to say for more complex projects more clout might be necessary. No code changes were required to adopt the code to the 18 pin prod. device. A minor change (port assignments) *was* required to use the E08 OTP. >Are the timer(s) in the 18-pin devices capable of measuring the widths of >a PWM input while simultaneously generating an independent PWM output? In a word, no. The E08 has two programmable counters- 8 bit counters with a fully programmable 6 bit prescaler. One of the two counters has gated/ triggered clock capability. The other one is driven only from the cpu osc. See the spec sheet for more specific details. In general, I'd say the parts have a lot of flexibility- user program- mable pullups, schmitt inputs, interrupt i/ps of pos/neg edge polarity, user definable interrupt prioritization, etc.. the E08 also has 2 analog compara- tors. disclaimer: I have no personal stake/interest in Zilog- just speaking as a satisfied user. >Herb Poppe hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu >NCAR (303) 497-1296 >1850 Table Mesa Dr. >Boulder, CO 80307-3000 -- Ray Berry kb7ht uucp: ...ole!ray CIS: 73407,3152 /* "inquire within" */
chuck@mitlns.mit.edu (10/01/90)
-Message-Text-Follows- In article <1990Sep28.143653.23424@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes... >In article <1990Sep27.171111.5553@athena.mit.edu> chuck@mitlns.mit.edu writes: >>>Motorola makes a nice CMOS 6805-family part in a 24 pin package. Look >>>for the 1468705xxx ... >> >> This is obsolete the recomended parts are 68HC... > >Recommended for maximizing Motorola's profits, or for best results for >the user? :-) > >If you are designing something to be produced in quantity zillion a year >from now, there is a lot to be said for using the latest and greatest parts. >If you're a hobbyist dealing in quantity one, there is a lot to be said >for "obsolete" parts -- they are generally cheap and widely available, >which is (I hear) more than can be said for the 68HC parts. >-- All too true, but sometimes the comparisions is a little unfair. I find when I look through a databook I usually drift to the newest/greatest/ fastest part that was just brought out yesterday. The HC parts have been out for quite a while and and the run of the mill stuff is cheap and not hard to get. 68HC11A2 was less than $20 dollars from Active. They now have $25 dollar minimum on that part so you have to buy 2 but that's not bad for the hobbiest. I think it is well worth the extra expense over the 68705P5 or R3 which can be had for about $8 or $12 respectively. The poster mentioned the 1468... CMOS series which I find harder to to find than a 68HC11A2. The 68HC11 F series is hard to get of course, but it was only introduced this year. Chuck@mitlns.mit.edu
cook@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Forrest Cook) (10/02/90)
In article <1990Oct1.152820.25144@athena.mit.edu> chuck@mitlns.mit.edu writes: ... >The poster mentioned the 1468... CMOS series which I find harder to >to find than a 68HC11A2. >The 68HC11 F series is hard to get of course, but it was only introduced this year. And of course, there is the XC68HC11A8FN1, the chip that was sold with those great 6811 evaluation boards. The A8 had a nice feature where it could boot out of EEPROM if one of the port pins was pulled up. This was done by a little test at the beginning of the internal Buffalo Monitor. Until recently, with the addition of the F series I believe, The A8 was the only way to get a 68HC11 that could run as a single chip with 512 bytes of program/data EEPROM and an async serial port. The A8 made for great RS-232 boxes, I made a nice serial mux and a micro size data acquisition system with it. Unfortunately, the chip had an X on the front which I later found out meant eXperimental, and almost impossible to buy more of. Some of the later chips could boot from EEPROM if you sacrificed the async port. The new F series chip was done right, with reset vectors in EEPROM, unfortunately, it is in a bigger package, making our older boards obsolete :-( It seems kind of funny that it took Moto so long to make the 68HC11 chips work in a single chip mode when it was so close to begin with. And then there's that nagging little problem concerning large contiguous RAM space... So close, yet so far. At least you can get a nice C compiler for the 68HC11. (Archimedes) . -- ^ ^ Forrest Cook - <<< We all P for IP, We all BM for IBM >>> /|\ /|\ cook@stout.atd.ucar.edu WB0RIO (This posting is my OPINION) /|\ /|\ {husc6|rutgers|ames|gatech}!ncar!stout!cook
hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu (Herb Poppe) (10/03/90)
In article <1990Oct1.152820.25144@athena.mit.edu> chuck@mitlns.mit.edu writes: > 68HC11A2 was less than $20 dollars from Active. I would appreciate it if someone could e-mail me a current telephone number for Active so that I can request a catalog. Thanks! Herb Poppe hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu NCAR (303) 497-1296 1850 Table Mesa Dr. Boulder, CO 80307-3000
john@qip.UUCP (John Moore) (10/03/90)
In article <1990Oct1.152820.25144@athena.mit.edu> chuck@mitlns.mit.edu writes:
] 68HC11A2 was less than $20 dollars from Active. They now have $25 dollar
]minimum on that part so you have to buy 2 but that's not bad for the
]hobbiest. I think it is well worth the extra expense over the
]68705P5 or R3 which can be had for about $8 or $12 respectively. The
Where to you get the R3 for $12.00? I pay Hamilton/Avnet $15.00 for them.
Have you got a nifty place to buy them from? If so, please include
phone number.
--
John Moore HAM:NJ7E/CAP:T-Bird 381 {ames!ncar!noao!asuvax,mcdphx}!anasaz!john
USnail: 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale,AZ 85253 anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Voice: (602) 951-9326 Wishful Thinking: Long palladium, Short Petroleum
Opinion: Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment!
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are all my fault, and no one elses.bobm@anasaz.UUCP (Bob Maccione) (10/03/90)
In article <1990Oct1.152820.25144@athena.mit.edu> chuck@mitlns.mit.edu writes: > 68HC11A2 was less than $20 dollars from Active. > >I would appreciate it if someone could e-mail me a current telephone >number for Active so that I can request a catalog. > >Thanks! > >Herb Poppe hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu me too! also if anyone knows of sources for inexpensive pressure transducers ( why are those things so expensive ) I would like to know about them too. thanks bob maccione
bmw@isgtec.uucp (Bruce M. Walker) (10/04/90)
In article <8638@ncar.ucar.edu> hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu (Herb Poppe) writes: > If there is not an EEPROM or windowed EPROM version of these devices, what > device (or development system) is used to develop/test software. I assume that you would breadboard with one of the 40-pin piggyback EPROM versions and simply ignore the extra pins that it has (that aren't bonded-out on the 18-pin version) while developing. > Are the timer(s) in the 18-pin devices capable of measuring the widths of > a PWM input while simultaneously generating an independent PWM output? PWM input can be measured by setting one of the timers into "gated internal clock" mode. The timers aren't capable of generating PWM output "unassisted" but a simple scheme will do it. The Z8's interrupt response time is *very* fast; so, simply set the timer into modulo-n count mode, enable the timer interrupt, and write a new down-count value to the timer every time the interrupt is triggered. For example, if the desired PWM duty cycle is 40%, alternately program the down count to be 60, then 40, then 60 and so on. -- bmw@isgtec.uucp [ ..uunet!utai!lsuc!isgtec!bmw ] Bruce Walker
jpexg@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (John Purbrick) (10/05/90)
In article <3043@anasaz.UUCP> bobm@anasaz.UUCP (Bob Maccione) writes: >>I would appreciate it if someone could e-mail me a current telephone >>number for Active so that I can request a catalog. >>Thanks! >>Herb Poppe hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu >me too! Active Electronics 133 Flanders Rd Westborough Ma 01581 617-366-8899 800-343-0874 (outside Massachusetts only)
bobm@anasaz.UUCP (Bob Maccione) (10/06/90)
In article <11189@life.ai.mit.edu> jpexg@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (John Purbrick) writes: > >Active Electronics >133 Flanders Rd >Westborough Ma 01581 > >617-366-8899 >800-343-0874 (outside Massachusetts only) hmmmm, I tried those numbers and they didn't work. However the address did point me in the correct direction. the non-free number is: 508-366-8899 bob