tims@infidel.lanl.gov (Tim Sullivan) (10/04/90)
I have just come home from a tense, angry meeting of a local cable TV board. It occured to me that much of what was causing the tension between the public representatives and the cable company ought to have a technical solution. For the sake of brevity, I won't go into the details of the current issue, but it could be solved by "black boxes". (The cable company isn't proposing to install them since when they tried a few years ago they lost half their subscribers.) Now as I understand the objection to these boxes, it is because the descrambled signals come out on channel 3 and you have to select which channel you want to watch with a switch or remote control special to the box. This prevents unattended recording of shows on different channels by your VCR among other things. Now my question is: Why can't someone make a box that will take all those channels coming in, descramble the ones you've subscribed to, and put them all out at once on a cable to your tuner so the tuner can do its thing? Given the heat generated by this issue such a box should be a billion dollar item, so I figure there must be some technical limitation that makes it hard (I can't see any reason why it would be impossible). Can someone enlighten me? I know nothing about how signals are scrambled, but the description of the items being put in our lines indicated they were strictly passive devices. What makes this problem hard? Tim Sullivan (tims@infidel.lanl.gov)
jws@thumper.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) (10/04/90)
The problem is not hard per se. If anyone was suitably motivated, that sort of box could be developed. Instead of one output stage and a selector/ tuner, you would need a gang of outputs along with input and output traps and summers. What you would end up with is a box with about 5X the circuitry. (Assuming 5 pay channels. You also must be able to make assumptions about where the pay channels are located in the channel block or be able to select which ones to decode). Since most people watch only one channel at once, or at most watch one and tape another, most of the extra circuitry will be idle. I doubt that the difference in price would be justified - neither the cable company nor the majority of the customers would be willing to pay that much extra for the feature.
vail@tegra.COM (Johnathan Vail) (10/04/90)
In article <TIMS.90Oct3212314@infidel.infidel.lanl.gov> tims@infidel.lanl.gov (Tim Sullivan) writes: Now my question is: Why can't someone make a box that will take all those channels coming in, descramble the ones you've subscribed to, and put them all out at once on a cable to your tuner so the tuner can do its thing? 1) It would be the equivelent of N cable boxes where N is the number of channels. By current standards, you need to descramble each channel independantly. Anyway, much too impractical and infeasible. 2) The cable co would lose revenue since you need only one of these boxes and then could attach as many sets as you like. 3) the tvs and vcrs used would all have to be "cable" ready, an in a consistant way. there is no consistancy between cable ready things now. Cheaper Solution to Taping: A programmable remote control. It can be programmed to turn the vcr on, set the cable channel of the box and start the vcr running. Problems: 1) not compatible with all cable boxes. 2) you still have to pay the remote control rentals since they typically block the access if you don't jv "The hippies won't come back, you, say Mellow out or you will pay" -- |). |<. _____ | | Johnathan Vail | n1dxg@tegra.com |Tegra| (508) 663-7435 | N1DXG@448.625-(WorldNet) ----- jv@n1dxg.ampr.org {...sun!sunne ..uunet}!tegra!vail
elmquist@nachos.SSESCO.com (Chris Elmquist) (10/05/90)
IMHO, the best way to solve this problem is to get the TV and VCR manufacturers to provide descrambler loops on the back of the piece of equipment. The loop brings out the signal after the tuner but before the detector (or some such connection) so that you can externally descramble it and feed it back into the TV for display. This way, you rent the descrambler equipment from the cable company, connect it to your TV or VCR, and then use the tuner/timer capability of the piece of equipment as it was intended. This would *really* be "cable ready"... -- --------------------------- Chris Elmquist, N0JCF elmquist@nachos.ssesco.com
whinery@hale.ifa.hawaii.edu (Alan Whinery) (10/05/90)
In article <TIMS.90Oct3212314@infidel.infidel.lanl.gov> tims@infidel.lanl.gov (Tim Sullivan) writes: >Now my question is: Why can't someone make a box that will take all >those channels coming in, descramble the ones you've subscribed to, >and put them all out at once on a cable to your tuner so the tuner can >do its thing? >Tim Sullivan (tims@infidel.lanl.gov) I don't understand. It sounds to me like the box you are proposing does just what every cable box I've ever had -- in four different states -- has done. There's a high bandwidth signal coming into the back, a series of passthroughs (for free channels) and descrmblers for subscribed channels. Most cable companies pass the unsubscribed pay channels through, so you can listen to the sound and wish you could see the picture. Is CATV around Los Alamos abnormal? Or am I missing your point? Alan Whinery whinery@hale.ifa.hawaii.edu
whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) (10/05/90)
In article <229@nachos.SSESCO.com> elmquist@nachos.SSESCO.com (Chris Elmquist) writes: >IMHO, the best way to solve this problem is to get the TV and VCR >manufacturers to provide descrambler loops on the back of the >piece of equipment. The loop brings out the signal after the tuner and allows any channel you tune to be descrambled, regardless of whether you paid extra for that particular 'premium' channel. It's necessary for the cable company to know exactly which channel is being unscrambled, and whether that particular channel SHOULD be descrambled. A less elegant solution is available in 'universal remote control' systems; program it to change the cable box's channel selection and activate the VCR. It'd be nice if such a system could change over to a local antenna, and aim it, as well. Then all we'd need is a box that can watch the stupid taped TV show, and tell us not to bother... John Whitmore
markf@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Mark A. Fullmer) (10/05/90)
>From: whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) > and allows any channel you tune to be descrambled, regardless >of whether you paid extra for that particular 'premium' channel. >It's necessary for the cable company to know exactly which channel >is being unscrambled, and whether that particular channel SHOULD be >descrambled. Not if each channel has information encoded saying 'I'm HBO' or 'I'm V-Cable Pay channel #2' The decoding box could then be programmed (through the cable). I beleive Zenith does something similar to this in one of their high-end tee-vee systems. /* markf@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu, maf@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu Don't take reality too seriously */
Ordania-DM@cup.portal.com (Charles K Hughes) (10/05/90)
And, of course, we ALL know the best solution...make scrambling illegal! [ No smileys, it may sound like an absurd idea, but it can't be any worse than making work on sundays illegal ] Charles_K_Hughes@cup.portal.com
elmquist@nachos.SSESCO.com (Chris Elmquist) (10/05/90)
In article <8627@milton.u.washington.edu> whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) writes: > and allows any channel you tune to be descrambled, regardless >of whether you paid extra for that particular 'premium' channel. >It's necessary for the cable company to know exactly which channel >is being unscrambled, and whether that particular channel SHOULD be >descrambled. > True... but as long as we're redesigning cable TV systems and TV and VCRs, let's just encode the channel number onto the signal so that the descrambler will know what channel the tuner as been set to. > Then all we'd need is a box that can watch the stupid >taped TV show, and tell us not to bother... > > John Whitmore Good point... -- Chris Elmquist, N0JCF elmquist@ssesco.com
huopio@lut.fi (Kauto Huopio OH5LFM) (10/06/90)
In article <8627@milton.u.washington.edu> whit@milton.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) writes: > and allows any channel you tune to be descrambled, regardless > of whether you paid extra for that particular 'premium' channel. > It's necessary for the cable company to know exactly which channel > is being unscrambled, and whether that particular channel SHOULD be > descrambled. I think that in digital scrambling systems like the Sky Telwvision uses in Sky Movies, that should be not a big problem.. --kauto -- ****************** Kauto Huopio (huopio@kannel.lut.fi) ********************** *US Mail: Kauto Huopio, Punkkerikatu 1 A 10, SF-53850 Lappeenranta, Finland * *****************************************************************************
rbrink@hubcap.clemson.edu (Rick Brink) (10/09/90)
From article <1990Oct4.133730.28246@mlb.semi.harris.com>, by jws@thumper.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger):
>
The only thing missing from this discussion is the politics behind the
selection of boxes, and services. Many cable companies are running on a
shoe-string equipment budget. Little or nothing is spent on equipment,
so that the investors can grab a maximum profit. If any of us were to
start-up one of these companies, things like quality of signal, selection
of services would be a concern. But cable TV is not the relm of qualified
managment. It's just a shell game for someone to make money with. You
can buy better equipment from the back of Radio-Electronics than most
Cable companies "rent" you for less than 1 years rental. But try to
find a company that will give you credit for using your own box. They
will likely as not, disconnect you for having illegal attachments.
When is "Satellite cable" comming. I'm pissed that ISDN is lagging so
far behind. I'm tired of all the censorship. We loose broadcasts in
our area when a schoolteacher on a sitcom talks about birth control.
Enough bitching, back to sci.electronicschiang@iris.ucdavis.edu (Tom Chiang) (10/09/90)
*** *** does anyone have schematics or any technical info on the nintendo entertainment system...either the american nes or the japanese famicom which i expect to be mighty similar but not exact duplicates...or at least does anyone have the pinouts for either size cartridge (us or japan)...i am having an extremely hard time locating this info since nintendo is *very* private about these things which consequently makes 3rd party developers equally jumpy...therefore, perhaps a hacker similar to the one who's done work w/ the power glove could help me out...i am basically trying to build an adapter to play american games to japanese system and vice versa...& yes i know i can buy one these commercially (at least in hong kong,singapore,etc.), but i am in for the educational experience...plus, i also want to fool around with the controllers...japanese controllers are hardwired into the console, unlike american ones where they are 9pin plugs...so i would like to replace those...anyway, u get the picture...posting here is my last resort...i hope someone comes through with *any* info...thanx! *** ***