[sci.electronics] Filter simulation in Pspice

simpson@sunee.waterloo.edu (KFS Lam) (11/10/90)

Hi, I am currently doing a passive filter design with Pspice
on a PC. Unfortunately, Pspice performs DC analysis automatically
at the beginning. Since my circuit is passive, there are no
DC sources and Pspice starts to compliant about floating
nodes. (Some of my nodes have capicitor connected to other
nodes, so no DC can get through. Therefore, Pspice thinks
they are floating.) I get around it by putting a HUGE resistor
from that node to ground. Then Pspice starts to complaint about
convergence problem in DC analysis. Is there any way you can
shut off the DC analysis after checking the circuit? Or there
are ways to get around that?

				simpson@sunee.waterloo.edu

jws@mintaka.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) (11/10/90)

 The Large Resistor To Ground trick is one of the most straightforward ways
of improving convergence. You may be able to explicitly set initial conditions
on your PSpice element cards (current for inductors, voltage for caps). If you
know the initial conditions this should help quite a bit. Also see whether 
PSpice has a store/restore capability with which you can save the DC solution
and use it to initialize the circuit state for the next. Finally, see what 
you have available to you as far as setting the number of DC iterations, 
required tolerances for "convergence", etc. You may just need more iterations.
Note also that a filter with only AC components is going to be hard to
solve for a computer - any error is going to make everything "sing". Try 
putting large resistors in parallel with the caps and very small resistors in
series with the inductors (small being a judgment call based on frequency of
interest). This may provide a means for the errors to damp out.

mark@mips.COM (Mark G. Johnson) (11/11/90)

In article <1990Nov9.160343.3301@sunee.waterloo.edu> simpson@sunee.waterloo.edu (KFS Lam) writes:
   >I get around it by putting a HUGE resistor
   >from that node to ground. Then Pspice starts to complaint about
   >convergence problem in DC analysis. Is there any way you can


Another standard stunt is to use large (10 Henry) inductors from
"floating" nodes to voltage sources.  This sets the voltage at
time zero and then keeps out of the way during other analyses.
-- 
 -- Mark Johnson	
 	MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques M/S 2-02, Sunnyvale, CA 94086
	(408) 524-8308    mark@mips.com  {or ...!decwrl!mips!mark}

FC138001@ysub.ysu.edu (Phil Munro) (11/13/90)

> Hi, I am currently doing a passive filter design with Pspice
> on a PC. Unfortunately, Pspice performs DC analysis automatically
> at the beginning. Since my circuit is passive, there are no
> DC sources and Pspice starts to compliant about floating
> nodes. ...                          Is there any way you can
> shut off the DC analysis after checking the circuit? ...
>
>                                 simpson@sunee.waterloo.edu

  This is an interesting problem with Spice.  I look forward to
solutions to this *other* than introducing large resistors or
inductors into the circuit.

  Perhaps you should consisder using another good simulator.  I like
WATAND which runs under CMS on our mainframe and is an *interactive*
simulator.  With WATAND, frequency analysis (FR) can be run by
specifying the Q-point, and for a linear circuit it defaults to ZERO.
It is not necessary to run DC analysis, unless one wants to use the
DC solution as a Q-point.  Therefore, your problem doesn't occur with
WATAND because the operating point can be taken as ZERO.  WATAND is used
at, and available (I think) from the Univ of Waterloo.

  It should be pointed out, however, that having a node which floats
with respect to dc is not really a normal design.  So it is not
unreasonable to add the large resistor in parallel with the capacitor,
and to add the small resistor in series with the inductor.  This just
makes the models for those elements more accurate.  Of course the other
side of this is that many capacitor types have so little dissipation
that the added resistor is not really necessary to get good simulation.

raoul@eplunix.UUCP (Nico Garcia) (11/14/90)

In article <1990Nov9.160343.3301@sunee.waterloo.edu>, simpson@sunee.waterloo.edu (KFS Lam) writes:
> Hi, I am currently doing a passive filter design with Pspice
> on a PC. Unfortunately, Pspice performs DC analysis automatically
> at the beginning. Since my circuit is passive, there are no
> DC sources and Pspice starts to compliant about floating
> nodes. (Some of my nodes have capicitor connected to other

Hmmm. The big resistor to ground trick works well, and is actually
closer to physical situations (there is always *some* radiation of
AC, and leakage of DC). You might also incorporate leakage/series
resistances for your caps, depending on what kind of caps you use, and
series resistances for your inductances. Also, it makes sense to put
*some* kind of connection to ground on floating circuits. Who knows
what sort of static charges could build up and fry your caps while
you're not looking?

-- 
			Nico Garcia
			Designs by Geniuses for use by Idiots
			eplunix!cirl!raoul@eddie.mit.edu