a143@mindlink.UUCP (Ed Meyer) (11/17/90)
> ee5391aa@hydra.unm.edu writes: > > Msg-ID: <1990Nov17.175611.24365@ariel.unm.edu> > Posted: 17 Nov 90 17:56:11 GMT > > Org. : University of New Mexico, Albuquerque > Person: Duke McMullan n5gax > > In article <6571@bgsu-stu.UUCP> jwilde@bgsu-stu.UUCP (jane wilde) writes: > > >i I am looking for info on Cellular Phones of the future. .... > > Hey! Here's a chance to do what people like Asimov and Sagan get paid [ ... > ] > can we, with a healthy dose of bioengineering. > [ ... ] > The interface...who knows? Audio, certainly. Video, certainly. [ ... ] > There's a downside, of course. The potential for mind control of [ ... ] > Wouldn't you _love_ to see inside the head of the people for whom you vote, > next election? Wouldn't you _love_ to see inside the head of a used car > salesman? Wouldn't you _love_ to see inside the head of your attorney? Well, > attorneys...I guess there are some things no one wants to do. ;^) > > That's a beginning. Take it and run. > > -- > "I purr, therefore I am." -- Rene Decates > Duke McMullan n5gax nss13429r phon505-255-4642 ee5391aa@hydra.unm.edu Can you imagine how annoying it would be to have a ringer (or equivalent) that you could not shut off, a busy tone that somehow locked on, a canned message saying to you over and over again "Please hang up and try your call again ..." ? And what if you couldn't pull the plug? Could a problem at a CG/CO give you the equivalent of a wopping headache and/or earache? Run, don't walk to the nearest exit!
jwilde@bgsu-stu.UUCP (jane wilde) (11/17/90)
i I am looking for info on Cellular Phones of the future. Your educated forecast for "pocket phones" would also be appreciated. Thanks A response is urgent! jwilde@barney.bgsu.edu.
wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher,,255RTFM,255rtfm) (11/18/90)
>>i I am looking for info on Cellular Phones of the future. .... >We'll go pretty far into the future, and _implant_ the CT. No wires, no bat- >teries, no external antennas. {} >The interface...who knows? Audio, certainly. Video, certainly. Taste, >smell, texture, temperature, cet ettera...why not? >This "telephone" will hook you into the electronic world with effective tele- >pathy. It will be interesting to see of what we're capable after the neces- >sary connections are made and the necessary skills developed. {} >You hook into a worldwide computer network, of course. Huge databases, with >sophisticated data manipulation and search programs, will give a whole new >aspect to thinking. I can see it now..... The world is at peace, sleeping away when: COWABUNGA!! SOME DUDE NAMED CRAIG NEEDS YOUR DATA TAPES! HE'S DYING OF ROMULAN BRAIN MELT, WANTS TO MAKE IT INTO THE GALACTIC RECORD BANKS FOR HAVING MORE DC-3e8 DNA/HOLOGRAMS THAN ANYONE ELSE. PLEASE HELP! War ensues at once...... -- A host is a host from coast to coast.....wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu & no one will talk to a host that's close............(305) 255-RTFM Unless the host (that isn't close)......................pob 570-335 is busy, hung or dead....................................33257-0335
dt@yenta.alb.nm.us (David B. Thomas) (11/19/90)
jwilde@bgsu-stu.UUCP (jane wilde) writes: >i I am looking for info on Cellular Phones of the future. Your educated >forecast for "pocket phones" would also be appreciated. Interesting topic. I think that soon residence phones will be a thing of the past. I predict that a phone number will be associated with a person, who can carry a little radio telephone around. Cellular phones are paving the way, but they are still expensive, and the systems don't have the capacity to handle entire city populations. Hmmm those leftover telephone wires would make dandy computer network connections.... little david "The man who smelled tomorrow: nostril-damus" -- You mean you WUZ a Romanian....MUTHA!
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (11/20/90)
In article <1990Nov19.085022.13398@yenta.alb.nm.us> dt@yenta.alb.nm.us (David B. Thomas) writes: >Interesting topic. I think that soon residence phones will be a thing of >the past. I predict that a phone number will be associated with a person, >who can carry a little radio telephone around... The first question to ask about such schemes is "does the demand suffice to justify the bandwidth?". Radio spectrum space is in *very* short supply, especially in major metropolitan areas. Wires are the preferred medium for transmission wherever and whenever they are available, and prices will reflect this. The demand looks to me to be fairly small, unlikely to be more than the current cellular systems, or modest upgrades thereof, can handle. Few people actually have much of a need for mobile phone service, barring emergencies... and carrying a phone around with you just in case you happen to want it is not going to be popular until (a) the phone hardware is roughly the size of a pen or a cigarette lighter, and (b) carrying one around, as opposed to using it, costs almost nothing. Even if/when that happens, the mobile phones will be used mostly for emergencies (although these will be mostly minor personal ones rather than "real" emergencies). Most people spend most of their time within easy reach of a fixed phone. See above comment on wires. What might happen is some sort of system whereby your office phone talks to your pocket phone and knows when you are nearby, so that calls for you can be routed by wire rather than by radio. Note also that a substantial fraction of all phone calls are aimed at an office or a household, not at a specific person. -- "I don't *want* to be normal!" | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology "Not to worry." | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) (11/22/90)
In article <1990Nov19.175339.14777@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
The demand looks to me to be fairly small, unlikely to be more than the
current cellular systems, or modest upgrades thereof, can handle. Few
people actually have much of a need for mobile phone service, barring
emergencies...
If it becomes available cheap, there will be demand. Lots.
Remember how it was said (back in the days of Univac) that a dozen computers
would suffice for the computing needs of the whole planet ?
--
/* * * Otto J. Makela <otto@jyu.fi> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
/* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (CCITT, Bell 24/12/300) */
/* Mail: Kauppakatu 1 B 18, SF-40100 Jyvaskyla, Finland, EUROPE */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */mbutts@mentor.com (Mike Butts) (11/22/90)
>Can you imagine how annoying it would be to have a ringer (or equivalent) that >you could not shut off, a busy tone that somehow locked on, a canned message >saying to you over and over again "Please hang up and try your call again ..." >? And what if you couldn't pull >the plug? Could a problem at a CG/CO give you the equivalent of a >wopping headache and/or earache? >Run, don't walk to the nearest exit! > > Run down to your better neighborhood video store and rent "The President's Analyst", from about 1968. Wonderful hack on the spy movies of the time, with James Coburn. It turns out CIA, KGB, and everybody else ends up chasing "TPC", which has a nefarious plan to require everyone to get a Cerebral Communicator implant. The big scene in the Phone Company master control center is perfect. -- Michael Butts, Research Engineer KC7IT 503-626-1302(fax:1282) Mentor Graphics Corporation, 8500 SW Creekside Place, Beaverton, Oregon 97005 ...tektronix!sequent!mntgfx!mbutts uunet!mntgfx!mbutts mbutts@mentor.com Any opinions are my own, and aren't necessarily shared by Mentor Graphics Corp.
mbutts@mentor.com (Mike Butts) (11/22/90)
Here's something in the real future:
Path: mntgfx!sequent!tektronix!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uunet!ncrlnk!ncrwic!encad!entec!kthompso
From: kthompso@entec.Wichita.NCR.COM (Ken Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio
Subject: Iridium Cellular Service
Message-ID: <631@entec.Wichita.NCR.COM>
Date: 8 Aug 90 13:31:13 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation, Wichita, KS
Lines: 355
Copied from comp.dcom.telecom:
IRIDIUM - Motorola's New Cellular Phone System [Andrew Peed]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Andrew Peed <motcid!peed@uunet.uu.net>
Subject: IRIDIUM: Motorola's New Cellular Phone System
Date: 2 Aug 90 19:57:40 GMT
Organization: Motorola Inc. - Cellular Infrastructure Div., Arlington Hgts, IL
The contact person for the Iridium project is:
Lawrence Moore
Motorola, Inc.
Government Electronics Group
8201 E. McDowell Rd.
Scottsdale, AZ 85252
(602) 441-3000
IRIDIUM BACKGROUNDER
System Description:
Iridium is a worldwide digital, satellite-based, cellular
personal communications system primarily intended to provide
commercial, rural, mobile service via either handheld mobile or
transportable user units, employing low-profile antennas, to millions
of individual users throughout the world. The system includes a
constellation of 77 small, smart satellites in low-earth orbit which
are networked together as a switched digital communications system
utilizing the principles of cellular diversity to provide continuous
line-of-sight coverage from and to any point on the earth's surface,
as well as all points within an altitude of about 100 miles. The
system also includes space-to-earth gateways which interface into the
public switched telephone network (PSTN). Service will be available on
a country-by-country switched basis as negotiated with the individual
governments and/or the individual telephone companies. Unlike the
terrestrial cellular telephone system, Iridium is best suited for
areas where the traffic density is low -- sparsely populated areas,
the oceans, and areas where personal communications is just emerging.
In these emerging markets, Iridium can be used as a primer for the
eventual terrestrial system.
Voice:
The system is designed as an entirely digital communications
system with 8KHz bandwidth available for each voice channel. Vocoders
operating at 4.8 kilobits per second are employed in the user units to
recreate the audio signals and in the gateways to couple to the analog
PSTNs.
Data:
The system is designed to allow a user to substitute a data
link in lieu of a voice link which would operate at a rate of 2400
baud.
Modulation:
The user links use PSK modulation with a multiplexing scheme
that will be compatible with digital terrestrial cellular systems.
Spectrum:
The system is designed to operate in the 1 to 2 GHz region
with a capability of up to 29 MHz for the uplink and 29 MHz for the
downlink with the expectation that spectrum allocation may grow as the
system demand grows. Gateways and crosslinks will operate at
approximately 20 GHz.
Subscriber Unit:
The system is designed to operate with a subscriber unit
similar to the Motorola Dyna-Tac.
Constellation:
The constellation of 77 satellites at a height of 413 nautical
miles was chosen to assure that every point on the earth's surface is
continuously in line of sight of one or more of the satellites. The
constellation includes 7 planes of 11 satellites each in circular
polar orbits. The satellites all "travel in the same direction,"
meaning that the seven planes of satellites co-rotate towards the
north pole on one side of the earth and "cross over" the pole,
traveling down to the south pole on the other side of the earth. The
11 satellites in each plane are equally spaced around their planar
orbit, with the satellites in planes 1, 3, 5 and 7 in phase with one
another, and those in planes 2, 4, and 6 in phase with each other and
halfway out of phase with 1, 3, 5 and 7. (In order to prevent the
satellites from colliding at the poles, a tolerance on the term "in
phase," as used above, is employed and a minimum miss distance is
maintained.) Each of the seven co-rotating planes are separated by
slightly more than 27 degrees, and the "seam" between planes 1 and 7,
which represents plane 1 satellites going up on one side of the earth
and plane 7 satellites coming down in the adjacent plane, is separated
by slightly more than 17 degrees.
Cells:
Each Iridium satellite has the capacity to operate 37 cells
which are projected onto the earth's surface. These separate cells
allow for higher gain antenna beams and for spectral efficiency in the
system since different cells are able to reuse frequencies and service
different customers with the same channel. These cells are spatially
separated by the main mission antenna on board each satellite.
The 37 cells are created in a contiguous hexagonal pattern
with one center cell surrounded by three rings of smaller cells. The
three rings consist of 6, 12, and 18 cells respectively, and each of
the 37 cells are created such that each is of approximately the same
shape and size. The cells are approximately 360 nautical miles in
diameter, and the ensemble of cells covers the earth's surface. In
operation, cells will be turned on and off to singly cover all points
within which operation is desired, as well as all necessary gateways,
and to conserve energy on board the satellites.
The constellation of satellites and its projection of cells is
somewhat analogous to a cellular telephone system. In the case of
cellular telephones, a static set of cells serves a large number of
mobile users; in the case of Iridium, the users move at a relatively
slow pace relative to the spacecraft, which move at about 7,400 meters
per second, so the users appear static and the cells move. The
advantage for Iridium, given this situation, is that the handoffs
required as a call migrates from cell to cell are more deterministic
in that, with the spacecraft's high velocity, handoffs are largely in
one direction and the potential handoff is not to one of six adjacent
cells but more commonly to one of two.
Crosslinks:
Each satellite operates crosslinks as a medium used to support
internetting. These operate at approximately 20 GHz and include both
forward and backward looking links to the two adjacent satellites in
the same orbital plane. These are nominally at a fixed distance and
angle 2,173 nautical miles away. Up to 6 interplane crosslinks are
also maintained and these links vary in angle and distance from the
satellite with a maximum distance of 2,500 nautical miles.
Gateways:
Each satellite has the capacity to interlink (via the
crosslink network) to earth-based gateways that employ high-gain
antennas. The initial system will use 20 gateways. Gateways employ
standard cellular switches and interface both to the various local
PSTNs and to the local billing offices.
Delay:
Unlike geostationary satellite communications systems,
interconnect distances in the Iridium system are on the order of the
wireless telephone and echo effects are minimized.
Spacecraft Life:
The Iridium spacecraft are designed for a 5 year mean mission
duration (MMD) with expandables sized for 8 years. A small expandable
launch vehicle, such as Pegasus, will service the Iridium
constellation, which, in its steady-state mode (after initial
deployment), will replace satellites on a routine basis and emergency
replacements within 36 hours.
Growth:
With such a dynamic constellation, constantly being
refurbished, the system design takes on a unique freshness in its
baseline. High reliability is designed into the system to assure the 5
year MMD, but redundancy, per se, is avoided wherever possible. The
initial system is sized to handle the system capacity expected, with
some margin, for the first 8 years -- the system design, however,
incorporates all the necessary "hooks" to allow for capacity growth in
subsequent "blocks" of satellites. Technological improvements in power
available on board spacecraft, launch, weights, antenna technology,
electronic technology and other areas will allow for system growth
within the overall system design. This will provide for a natural
evolution as Iridium matures.
----------------------
MOTOROLA UNVEILS NEW CONCEPT FOR GLOBAL PERSONAL COMMUNICATIONS; BASE
IS CONSTELLATION OF LOW-ORBIT SATELLITES
In a move that heralds a new era in personal communications,
Motorola, Inc., Schaumburg, Ill., announced a global communications
system that will allow people to communicate by telephone anywhere on
earth -- whether on land, at sea or in the air -- via portable
radiotelephones operating as part of a satellite-based system.
Callers using the new system will not need to know the
location of the person being called; they will simply dial that
person's number to be connected instantly.
Motorola calls the new system Iridium and has established a
satellite communications business unit to develop it. The heart of
Iridium is a "constellation" of 77 satellites in low-earth orbit,
working together as a digital switched communications network in
space. The system will be able to handle both voice and data.
"Iridium brings personal communications to the world -- it
represents the potential for any person on the planet to communicate
with any other," said John F. Mitchell, vice chairman of Motorola Inc.
"For this reason, Iridium marks the next major milestone in global
communications."
"It is an ambitious concept, which will bring us significantly
closer to 'the global village' As such, Iridium boldly extends the
Motorola tradition of innovation in personal communications recognized
through our leadership in cellular telecommunications, private two-way
radio and radio paging."
IRIDIUM ADVANTAGES:
Motorola's Iridium system provides several key improvements
over the geosynchronous satellites currently used for international
communications. The low altitude of Iridium satellites allows easy
radio links with portable radiotelephones on earth, using small
antennas rather than satellite dishes. It also supports reuse of radio
frequencies, in a similar fashion to land-based cellular systems.
In addition, the system solves the problem of low-orbit
satellites "disappearing over the horizon" by combining a large number
of satellites in a space-based, inter-satellite switching system.
Although Iridium uses cellular communications principles, it
is designed to complement, not compete with, land-based cellular
systems. Land-based cellular will remain the most efficient way to
serve high-density areas, whereas Iridium will bring communications to
remote or sparsely populated areas that lack communications. Iridium
and terrestrial cellular will work together to eventually provide a
seamless communications service for the entire world.
SMALL SATELLITES:
The satellites are small (approximately one meter in diameter
and two meters tall) and lightweight (approximately 315 kilograms, or
700 pounds). They are considered "smart" because they can switch and
route calls in space.
Each satellite antenna pattern will project 37 cells onto the
earth's surface. Each cell will provide communications coverage for an
area of the earth's surface roughly 350 nautical miles in diameter;
people will communicate with the satellites using equipment operating
at frequencies of 1.5/1.6 Gigahertz. In addition to voice, the digital
system can transmit data at a rate of 2400 baud.
The Iridium satellites can be placed into orbit by a variety
of launch vehicles. The U.S. Delta and Atlas rockets, and the European
Ariane, could launch multiple satellites. The new Pegasus air-launched
vehicle could launch individual satellites. Each satellite is expected
to have a lifespan of five to six years.
Another key component of the system will be a network of
"gateway" surface facilities in various countries that will link
Iridium with the public switched telephone network. These gateways
will store customer billing information and will constantly keep track
of each user's location. An Iridium system control facility will
maintain the satellite network and the overall operation of the
system.
LIGHTWEIGHT, PORTABLE SUBSCRIBER UNITS:
Subscriber units for Iridium are similar to Motorola's
original cellular radiotelephones and will offer additional features
such as latitude, longitude, altitude, and Greenwich Mean Time.
In addition to the lightweight portables, Iridium subscriber
units will be available as mobiles or small fixed units.
ANTICIPATED USERS:
The Iridium system will support millions of users worldwide,
with a total capacity more than 10 times greater than current
geosynchronous satellite systems.
For low-density areas not economically feasible for cellular
phone networks, Iridium will be an ideal alternative for mobile
telephone service. In sparsely populated or underdeveloped areas
lacking basic telephone service, Iridium can be a foundation for an
eventual ground telephone system.
For ships and aircraft, Iridium will provide voice or data
links and positioning information without the sophisticated on-board
telecommunications hardware now required. Since Iridium is not
dependent on land-based communications links, it also would play a
crucial role in disaster-recovery efforts following earthquakes,
hurricanes, or other natural calamities.
OPERATING PLAN:
Motorola envisions that the Iridium system will be operated by
one or more international consortia whose members have the necessary
licenses to operate in each country.
Motorola will serve as the supplier of the system itself. This
will include the satellites, the communications links and all
necessary support. Motorola's plan for an open architecture is
expected to provide the opportunity for significant international
participation in the development and manufacture of Iridium.
Plans call for two demonstration satellites to be placed into
orbit in 1992. Implementation of the entire system is planned to begin
in 1994, and full service will begin as early as 1996.
--------------------
MOTOROLA SIGNS AGREEMENTS TO EXPLORE NEW SATELLITE-BASED PERSONAL
COMMUNICATION SYSTEM
Motorola, Inc. has signed memoranda of understanding with
three organizations -- the London-based International Maritime
Satellite Organization (Inmarsat), the American Mobile Satellite
Corporation (AMSC), based in Washington, D.C., and Telesat Mobile Inc.
(TMI) of Canada -- to jointly explore the potential of Motorola's
Iridium satellite communications system.
Iridium is a network of 77 small satellites in low-earth orbit
that will allow people with portable radiotelephones to communicate
anywhere on earth, whether on land, at sea, or in the air.
In each memorandum of understanding, the parties agree to
cooperate in studying the potential of the Iridium satellite network,
including an analysis of the technical and business issues involved.
"This system ushers in a new era of global personal
communications," said John F. Mitchell, vice chairman of Motorola,
Inc. "We're delighted that these organizations recognize the
importance of Iridium to the future of worldwide telecommunications."
Inmarsat, organized in 1979 as an international consortium to
provide satellite communications for ships at sea, now includes
representatives of 59 nations and has expanded its services in
several countries to include aviation and land-mobile communications.
AMSC is licensed to provide mobile communications via
satellite for the United States, and TMI is licensed to provide a
similar service for Canada.
Motorola is continuing discussions with other potential
partners, including British Telecom in London and organizations in
Australia, Hong Kong and Japan.
Motorola Inc. is one of the world's leading providers of
electronic equipment, systems, components and services for worldwide
markets. Products include two-way radios, pagers, cellular telephones
and systems, semiconductors, defense and aerospace electronics,
automotive and industrial electronics, computers, data communications
and information processing and handling equipment. Motorola was a
winner of the first annual Malcom Baldrige National Quality Award, in
recognition of its superior company wide management of quality
processes.
----------------------
Andrew B. Peed Motorola, Inc.
...!uunet!motcid!peed Cellular Infrastructure Division
(708) 632-5271 1501 W.Shure Dr., Arlington Heights, IL, 60074
------------------------------
End of TELECOM Digest Special: Iridium Cellular Service
******************************
--
Ken Thompson N0ITL
NCR Corp. 3718 N. Rock Road
Wichita,Ks. 67226 (316)636-8783
Ken.Thompson@wichita.ncr.com
--
Michael Butts, Research Engineer KC7IT 503-626-1302(fax:1282)
Mentor Graphics Corporation, 8500 SW Creekside Place, Beaverton, Oregon 97005
...tektronix!sequent!mntgfx!mbutts uunet!mntgfx!mbutts mbutts@mentor.com
Any opinions are my own, and aren't necessarily shared by Mentor Graphics Corp.henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (11/22/90)
In article <OTTO.90Nov21184359@tukki.jyu.fi> otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) writes: > The demand looks to me to be fairly small, unlikely to be more than the > current cellular systems, or modest upgrades thereof, can handle... > >If it becomes available cheap, there will be demand. Lots. >Remember how it was said (back in the days of Univac) that a dozen computers >would suffice for the computing needs of the whole planet ? Remember how it was said that everyone would have Picturephones by now? Things don't get cheap without substantial demand *first*. -- "I'm not sure it's possible | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology to explain how X works." | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
ee5391aa@hydra.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax) (11/23/90)
In article <1990Nov22.053204.3104@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes, regarding the future of _cheap_ cellular phones: >Remember how it was said that everyone would have Picturephones by now? >Things don't get cheap without substantial demand *first*. Agreed and disagreed. The popularity of cellular phones, in spite of their current price (it _is_ becoming a major electronics market), suggests that cheaper Cphones will be even more widely popular -- the demand appears to be there. Picturephones are a lousy counterexample, on account of because 1) they aren't that much of an improvement over audio-only, 2) they're too unreasonably ex- pensive, even given significant development (though this _could_ change), 3) most people aren't interested in the frame-every-few-seconds that the cur- rent technology supports and 4) the 'phone system can't handle the BW neces- ary for a faster frame-transfer. Additionally, most people would then find it inconvenient, if not embarassing, to use the 'phone in the nude. There are some caveats: If cable TV can do it, so can The Phone Company. Coaxial cable _does_ have the BW necessary for videophone hookups. Ideally, you cross the cable company with the phone company, producing an integrated communications utility. This would have to be standardized to work effec- tively on a worldwide basis, which means either a worldwide monopoly or co- operation between the industry and the worlds governments. It is left as an excercise for the student to decide which is the more likely and which is the more desireable. (Vote NO!) Too, new image processing technology does greatly reduce the effective BW required for a videophone system. Still, for an effective frame transfer rate, you need quite a few more BPS than the current phony system permits. And, if you Go Cable, you still need the equivalent of the telephone network switching system...working with _HOW_ many MHz bandwidth? Additionally, if we accept the several-seconds-per-frame limitation, you still can do _some_ image transfers; you just have to be willing to spend the time necessary. Now, consider the popularity of FAX technologies, in spite of the several-hundred-bucks minimum ante. True, there has to be _some_ demand. It looks to me like there's plenty of demand for very cheap, very portable cellular 'phones. I'm still working on a design that'll work 400 feet underground in a VERY muddy cave passage.... One essentiality for this is the ability to turn it OFF. When I first got a phone of my own, circa 1970, one of the first things I did was open it up and put a disable switch on the ringer. It worked fine, except I'd forget to turn it back on occasionally. Again, modern technology is there to help. Consider the popularity of answering machines today. With all these New Things, there's always a psycho-sociological barrier to overcome. Answering machines were widely hated at first, by folks who were too insecure to "talk to a damn machine." De gustibus.... Widespread use of car-based telephones was -- and still is, in some quarters -- regarded as too dangerous, too likely to cause accidents. I'm sure it does contribute to the accident rate, but people have begun to accept it. Hams and CBers have been doing this sort of thing for years...not much problem. d -- "I purr, therefore I am." -- Rene Decates Duke McMullan n5gax nss13429r phon505-255-4642 ee5391aa@hydra.unm.edu
francis@hydracs.ua.oz.au (Francis Vaughan) (11/23/90)
From the TELECOM Digest Special: Iridium Cellular Service > Subscriber units for Iridium are similar to Motorola's > original cellular radiotelephones and will offer additional features > such as latitude, longitude, altitude, and Greenwich Mean Time. This is great. One could also envisage the provision of emergency beacons that can report where they are, and can run for a long time on very small batteries, since they may only need to transmit a small burst every now and again. Essentially it just rings the phone at an emergency services group and reports a problem and where it is. Does anyone know what accuracy the positional information will have? My great goal is a personal navigation device / emergency beacon for bushwalking/hiking/sailing etc. Francis Vaughan.
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (11/24/90)
In article <1990Nov22.174929.23073@ariel.unm.edu> ee5391aa@hydra.unm.edu (Duke McMullan n5gax) writes: >>Remember how it was said that everyone would have Picturephones by now? >>Things don't get cheap without substantial demand *first*. > >Agreed and disagreed. The popularity of cellular phones, in spite of their >current price (it _is_ becoming a major electronics market), suggests that >cheaper Cphones will be even more widely popular -- the demand appears to >be there. I'm really not sure of this. Hereabouts, at least, much of the advertising for cellular phones seems to be pitched at people who have a professional requirement for them. I really question how much demand there will be from people in more ordinary jobs, who very seldom have much need to make a phone call without a fixed phone handy. >Picturephones are a lousy counterexample, on account of because 1) they aren't >that much of an improvement over audio-only, 2) they're too unreasonably ex- >pensive, even given significant development (though this _could_ change), >3) most people aren't interested in the frame-every-few-seconds that the cur- >rent technology supports and 4) the 'phone system can't handle the BW neces- >ary for a faster frame-transfer... The Picturephone I was referring to is not the frame-every-few-seconds one, but a specific (note the capitalization) live-video system that Bell tried to sell about twenty years ago, with complete lack of success. To my mind, pocketphones share many of the same characteristics: for most people they do not represent a significant added utility, they'd be costly and at times inconvenient, and the infrastructure (in this case, spectrum space) is not there to support a really universal pocketphone system. -- "I'm not sure it's possible | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology to explain how X works." | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
dclaar@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Doug Claar) (11/27/90)
>Picturephones are a lousy counterexample, on account of because 1) they aren't
----------
Picturephones are a lousy example because they required a picturephone on
the other end. "Pocket cellular" requires no universal upgrade. Maybe its
just because I live in the silly-putty valley, but I know lots of people
that would love a cellular phone, but just can't afford it. Many of these
people are NOT "techies," though they are probably more technical than
someone in East Overshoe, Montana.
I believe that Cellular phones are pitched to business people because of
the cost and revenue potential. There is a large pool of business people
to sell to, and it is probably easier to justify as a business expense.
From observation, the more affluent generally appear to have cell phones.
Doug Claar
HP Computer Systems Division
Silly-putty valley, Ca.
UUCP: mcvax!decvax!hplabs!hpda!dclaar -or- ucbvax!hpda!dclaar
ARPA: dclaar%hpda@hplabs.HP.COMdbell@cup.portal.com (David J Bell) (11/27/90)
>>In article <1990Nov19.175339.14777@zoo.toronto.edu> (Henry Spencer) writes: >> The demand looks to me to be fairly small, unlikely to be more than the >> current cellular systems, or modest upgrades thereof, can handle. Few >> people actually have much of a need for mobile phone service, barring >> emergencies... >If it becomes available cheap, there will be demand. Lots. >Remember how it was said (back in the days of Univac) that a dozen computers >would suffice for the computing needs of the whole planet ? > /* * * Otto J. Makela <otto@jyu.fi> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ Exactly! And John von Neuman also said that "with a thousand words of memory, I can solve ANY problem". Cellular systems are already becoming overloaded in metropolitan areas. The *really BIG* problem to be solved will be to make the service massively available; the details of man/machine interface will be minor in comparison. Dave dbell@cup.portal.com
murray@sun13.scri.fsu.edu (John Murray) (11/29/90)
In article <6220026@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> dclaar@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Doug Claar) writes: >>Picturephones are a lousy counterexample, on account of because 1) they aren't >---------- >I believe that Cellular phones are pitched to business people because of >the cost and revenue potential. There is a large pool of business people >to sell to, and it is probably easier to justify as a business expense. >From observation, the more affluent generally appear to have cell phones. Cellular phones get discussed a lot in comp.dcom.telecom. It's almost one of those "Oh no, not again.." topics there. Oh, My point? The moderator of comp.dcom.telecom repeatedly points out that a cellular phone is not necessarily only affordable by businessmen and drug dealers. He spends about $40 a month on his, all told (yes, roaming charges and everything) and he says he makes about 2 calls a day on it on average... With the current FCC mandated duopoly, as long as *your two cellular companies* have a supply of businessmen and drug dealers that they can sell to, your local prices will stay high. After they've taken the lucrative market for all it will give, the price will probably come down to where us real people can afford it. Of course by then, the businessmen will be paying through the nose for "absolutely essential" skull-implant phones.. :-/ >Doug Claar >HP Computer Systems Division >Silly-putty valley, Ca. >UUCP: mcvax!decvax!hplabs!hpda!dclaar -or- ucbvax!hpda!dclaar >ARPA: dclaar%hpda@hplabs.HP.COM Disclaimer: I'm not Patrick Townshend (sp?) nor do I play him on TV. -- Disclaimer: Yeah, right, like you really believe I run this place. John R. Murray | "Never code anything murray@vsjrm.scri.fsu.edu | bigger than your head.." Supercomputer Research Inst.| - Me
sorgatz@ttidca.TTI.COM ( Avatar) (11/29/90)
In article <6220026@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> dclaar@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Doug Claar) writes:
+..I know lots of people that would love a cellular phone, but just can't
+afford it. Many of these people are NOT "techies," though they are
+probably more technical than someone in East Overshoe, Montana.
Point well taken. I have long lamented the high cost involved in
aquiring and operating a cellular phone. It just seems unreasonable that
the phones cost so much and that the service is so expensive. The best
prices seldom fall below $400 for a new, quality instrument. Used prices
are a little better, and sometimes a real-deal comes by..as was the case
when I bought my "AudioVox CM400". A friend had purchased a used truck
that had the unit installed, it was not working and the seller claimed the
unit had been modified or "chipped" for free service! It wasn't a stolen
phone, but it had been reprogrammed to avoid the normal charges..(too
complicated to explain!) I bought the unit out of curiosity, for $100.00
cash.
One of our local cellular dealers checked the unit out, making sure that
the Electronic Serial Number was not one that had ever been listed as a
stolen property. I was assured that even if it was, there would be no
real problem with returning the unit to it's rightful owner. They also
reprogrammed it for normal service and established a legit number for me.
All at no charge!
The actual costs of going cellular involve a $50 fee, $25 of which the
local dealer rebated me. The plan I picked provides full-time access, for
$25/month, prime-time minutes costing $0.90, and off-peak minutes at $0.20
--
Erik K. Sorgatz
Citicorp(+)TTI
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405
{csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!sorgatzsparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (12/01/90)
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >I'm really not sure of this. Hereabouts, at least, much of the advertising >for cellular phones seems to be pitched at people who have a professional >requirement for them. I really question how much demand there will be from >people in more ordinary jobs, who very seldom have much need to make a >phone call without a fixed phone handy. "need" doesn't really work its way into the equation. If the technology gets cheap enough, people will get on the 'bandwagon' because of the convenience that having a personal phone with you everywhere you go provides. >pocketphones share many of the same characteristics: for most people they >do not represent a significant added utility, they'd be costly and at times >inconvenient, and the infrastructure (in this case, spectrum space) is not >there to support a really universal pocketphone system. I disagree with the above statements. How would they be NOT be a significant added utility? You would have the means to talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime. To me that is greatly useful. As far as inconvenient goes, you can always turn it off. Or maybe there will be cellular answering machines small enough to be built into pocket phones to take messages when you dont or cant answer I do agree that the infrastructure is not here yet. But it will be. -- John Sparks |D.I.S.K. Public Access Unix System| Multi-User Games, Email sparks@corpane.UUCP |PH: (502) 968-DISK 24Hrs/2400BPS | Usenet, Chatting, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|7 line Multi-User system. | Downloads & more. A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of----Ogden Nash
phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (12/04/90)
In article <1990Nov19.175339.14777@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: |The demand looks to me to be fairly small, unlikely to be more than the |current cellular systems, or modest upgrades thereof, can handle. Few |people actually have much of a need for mobile phone service, barring |emergencies... | |Most people spend most of their time within easy reach of a fixed phone. | |Note also that a substantial fraction of all phone calls are aimed at an |office or a household, not at a specific person. I don't think you have a accurate usage model for this product. The point is not to make a call while you are mobile, it is to *receive* calls while you are mobile. There may be payphones handy while I am out, but how is anyone going to reach me without a cellular phone? I would also say a substantial number of calls are aimed at a specific person. Many business calls may be "office" oriented (although business again has a need to access mobile personnel) but almost all personal calls are person specific. Note that there are a large number of businesses where the personnel are mobile as much as possible like field service, sales, building contractors, etc. -- Compost: it's the right thing to do.
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (12/05/90)
In article <1990Dec3.171539.29346@amd.com> phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >There may be payphones handy while I am out, but how is anyone >going to reach me without a cellular phone? How often do you *want* them to be able to reach you? Being on call at all times, everywhere, gets tiresome very quickly unless you have a real need for it. Yes, there are occasions when it's desirable; my point is that those are rare enough for most people that they won't sell a product. >Note that there are a large number of businesses where the >personnel are mobile as much as possible like field service, >sales, building contractors, etc. This is the (small) market where existing cellular phones are selling well. -- "The average pointer, statistically, |Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology points somewhere in X." -Hugh Redelmeier| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (12/05/90)
In article <1990Dec4.181823.6080@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: |In article <1990Dec3.171539.29346@amd.com> phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes: |>There may be payphones handy while I am out, but how is anyone |>going to reach me without a cellular phone? | |How often do you *want* them to be able to reach you? Being on call at all I want my wife, mother, etc to be able to reach me all the time. Even if I'm out shopping. Even if her car has broken down on a deserted freeway. -- Intentions are often more important than capabilities.