[sci.electronics] conservation horror stories

phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (01/15/91)

Some of you may have heard of the time I saw a family buy three
electric heaters from the hardware store. I calculated that if they ran
all three of them at once (why else would they buy three, presumably
one for each bedroom) it would use about one megawatt hour per month.
I was there buying a compact fluorescent light bulb so I could
save 55 watts, and feeling foolish.

My neighbor just remodeled their house. Nice job, big bucks, very
fancy. She had the fluorescent lights in her kitchen taken out! She
says she likes a lot of light so she put in 11 incandescent recessed
lights, 75 watts each, 825 watts total. They're not even PAR, which is
ideal for recessed lights, they're just regular incandescents, which
waste a lot of light in that kind of fixture.

Much as I hate to admit it, and it has never happened before, I think
that Russ Nelson isn't too far off when he talks about the potential of
conservation. My neighbors are not poor or uneducated yet they just
made a big fixed investment in using MORE energy and they did it with
the help of professional interior decorators, architects, and
contractors, and the city "community development" issued a permit for
this.

There is something seriously wrong in our system when things like this
happen. And I think it's because energy, oil, and electricity are too
darn cheap! Unfortunately, when electric rates do rise, my neighbors
will be somewhat locked in to their power burning lighting system.
Recessed lighting is pretty difficult to change.

--
militia: 1.a. A citizen army, as distinct from a body of professional soldiers.
           b. The armed citzenry, as distinct from the regular army.

wilber@aludra.usc.edu (John Wilber) (01/15/91)

In article <1991Jan14.185100.24703@amd.com> phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes:

>My neighbor just remodeled their house. Nice job, big bucks, very
>fancy. She had the fluorescent lights in her kitchen taken out! She
>says she likes a lot of light so she put in 11 incandescent recessed
>lights, 75 watts each, 825 watts total. They're not even PAR, which is
>ideal for recessed lights, they're just regular incandescents, which
>waste a lot of light in that kind of fixture.

It sounds like maybe >GASP!< saving energy was not her reason for remodeling.
Maybe she just wanted a nicer place to live.  

>Much as I hate to admit it, and it has never happened before, I think
>that Russ Nelson isn't too far off when he talks about the potential of
>conservation. My neighbors are not poor or uneducated yet they just
>made a big fixed investment in using MORE energy and they did it with
>the help of professional interior decorators, architects, and
>contractors, and the city "community development" issued a permit for
>this.

Yeah, we can't have the city allowing people to build their own houses the 
way they want to build them can we?  The city should make everyone do what 
Russ & Phil think they should do.  Bye Bye pursuit of happiness!  It was nice 
knowing you.

>There is something seriously wrong in our system when things like this
>happen. 

Yeah, too much freedom and not enough central planning.  I hear there are
a large number of eastern european bureaucrats looking for work these
days.  Maybe we can hire them to check all our toilets to make sure they
have bricks in them, huh?

>And I think it's because energy, oil, and electricity are too
>darn cheap! 

Yeah, cheap and abundant.  Imagine that.  I can remember back in the mid-'70s
when all the eco-experts were claiming that we would be out of gas and
oil by 1985.  I guess they were wrong.  If you think you are right and want to
make a bundle though, I suggest you buy enormous options to purchase
gas and oil in 10 years.  If you are right you'll be a very rich man.  What?
Not willing to gamble your own money?  If not, then why are you willing
to gamble your neighbor's house for him?

>Unfortunately, when electric rates do rise, my neighbors
>will be somewhat locked in to their power burning lighting system.
>Recessed lighting is pretty difficult to change.

OK, it'll bethem paying the extra bill, not you.  Why should you complain?
Mind your own business.

phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (01/16/91)

In article <14164@chaph.usc.edu> wilber@aludra.usc.edu (John Wilber) writes:
|>My neighbor just remodeled their house. Nice job, big bucks, very
|>fancy. She had the fluorescent lights in her kitchen taken out! She
|
|It sounds like maybe >GASP!< saving energy was not her reason for remodeling.
|Maybe she just wanted a nicer place to live.  

I live next door to her. I talked to her. She simply didn't know
about CFs. She was quite interested in the possibilities but no one
had told her about this stuff before. She admitted she was already
concerned about the high energy use and cost. (just wait until she
finds out she'll be changing light bulbs every two weeks also)

|>My neighbors are not poor or uneducated yet they just
|>made a big fixed investment in using MORE energy and they did it with
|>the help of professional interior decorators, architects, and
|>contractors, and the city "community development" issued a permit for
|>this.
|
|Yeah, we can't have the city allowing people to build their own houses the 
|way they want to build them can we?  The city should make everyone do what 
|Russ & Phil think they should do.  Bye Bye pursuit of happiness!  It was nice 

The point is that their choice was a mistake, as freely admitted by the
owners themselves. It is not that they should not be allowed to build
what they want, it is that they still managed to be misinformed even
though they did "all the right things and hired the right people and
got the right permits". Assuming you aren't an engineer type who is
obsessed with this kind of thing, the best you can do is hire
professionals whose job it is to presumably keep up with the field, and
my neighbors did that.

I am concerned that the professionals and the city did not even tell my
neighbor about this option.


|>There is something seriously wrong in our system when things like this
|>happen. 
|
|Yeah, too much freedom and not enough central planning.  I hear there are

You don't have to force people like my neighbors. Education is quite
enough. They want to do the right thing, but they don't have time to
make a major project out of learning the field. They thought they could
hire the expertise of professionals. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

|>And I think it's because energy, oil, and electricity are too
|>darn cheap! 
|
|Yeah, cheap and abundant.  Imagine that.  I can remember back in the mid-'70s

Relatively cheap and abundant right now. Like it or not, most people
don't have the interest or ability to forecast the long term consequences
of their decisions like what kind of lighting to put in, what kind and
how much window, what kind of heat, where they live etc.

There is a lot of potential for education here.

|>Unfortunately, when electric rates do rise, my neighbors
|>will be somewhat locked in to their power burning lighting system.
|>Recessed lighting is pretty difficult to change.
|
|OK, it'll bethem paying the extra bill, not you.  Why should you complain?
|Mind your own business.

They were certainly happy to have the information I was able to present
to them so it is a good thing I did not "mind my own business". I like
to think I live in a community and if I can help someone I will. If we
ever have a major earthquake here I will be sharing my stored food with
my neighbors. I would not be able to eat while watching everyone around
me suffer. That's where I'm coming from.

I am sure there is at least one person reading this who is also
benefiting from it. That's enough for me.

--
militia: 1.a. A citizen army, as distinct from a body of professional soldiers.
           b. The armed citzenry, as distinct from the regular army.