adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) (01/09/91)
I just got one of those surge protection/EMI/RFI plugs to
plug a bunch of home entertainment system stuff into.
This do-hickey turns a standard dual 3-prong household outlet
into six surge-protected, EMI/RFI filtered 3-pronged plugs.
The unit has two LEDs on the top of it. According to the
very brief description on the package, the red LED indicates
that surge protection is working and the green LED indicates
that the unit is properly grounded.
So, I go to plug it in and expect to see the green LED come
on and stay on, and the red one to flicker on once in a long
while to indicate surge supression. Instead, as I plugged
it in, the red LED came on immediately and the green one
doesn't. It stays this way whether I've got anything plugged
into the unit or not.
Now, either the red and green LEDs are reversed (not likely),
or the wiring in the apartment doesn't have the ground hooked
up properly (likely). Does this mean I'm not going to get
surge protection? RFI/EMI filtering? What's a good test
to see what's going on with my power? How do I test whether
ground is hooked up properly? I've got a fairly good digital
multimeter...
--
Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379
UUCP: {amdahl|ames|hplabs}!ntmtv!adrian
ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.govgeoff@Veritas.COM (Geoffrey Leach) (01/10/91)
From article <3667@ntmtv.UUCP>, by adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt): > What's a good test > to see what's going on with my power? How do I test whether > ground is hooked up properly? I've got a fairly good digital > multimeter... There's a gadget that you can get for a few dollars that plugs into your wall outlet. It has a three-led readout that tells you what the state of your power is. Things like open ground, reversed hot and neutral, etc.
finfrock@ncis.tis.llnl.gov (Scott Finfrock) (01/11/91)
In article <3667@ntmtv.UUCP> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes: >I just got one of those surge protection/EMI/RFI plugs to >plug a bunch of home entertainment system stuff into. >that the unit is properly grounded. > > >So, I go to plug it in and expect to see the green LED come >on and stay on, and the red one to flicker on once in a long >while to indicate surge supression. Instead, as I plugged >it in, the red LED came on immediately and the green one >doesn't. It stays this way whether I've got anything plugged >into the unit or not. > On the units that I have seen the red light is on continously. It means that the unit is functional (i.e. not burned out) not that it is actually suppressing at that moment. -- -Scott Finfrock- My E-mail address is: finfrock@ncis.tis.llnl.gov But actually I'm in: Richland, Washington
jtl@chinet.chi.il.us (Joe Lynn) (01/11/91)
In article <3667@ntmtv.UUCP> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes: >I just got one of those surge protection/EMI/RFI plugs to >plug a bunch of home entertainment system stuff into. > >The unit has two LEDs on the top of it. According to the >very brief description on the package, the red LED indicates >that surge protection is working and the green LED indicates >that the unit is properly grounded. > >So, I go to plug it in and expect to see the green LED come >on and stay on, and the red one to flicker on once in a long >while to indicate surge supression. Instead, as I plugged >it in, the red LED came on immediately and the green one >doesn't. It stays this way whether I've got anything plugged >into the unit or not. I used to sell these things for a large, catalog-based computer supply company (you guess which one). The LED that indicates surge protection is *on*. It will always be on as long as that circuit (usually a capacitor, a couple of ferrite beads, and not much else) is active. It will definitely *not* flicker. My sugguestion is to try it in other outlets to see if the grounding LED comes on. Go around your apartment, or even a friend's place, your work, school, etc. It may be the LED is burned out. If you're really in doubt, take it back to the store and exchange it. Joe Lynn
alanj@nevermore.WV.TEK.COM (Alan Jeddeloh;685-2991;61-201;292-9740;orca) (01/11/91)
In article <3667@ntmtv.UUCP> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes: >... >This do-hickey turns a standard dual 3-prong household outlet >into six surge-protected, EMI/RFI filtered 3-pronged plugs. > >The unit has two LEDs on the top of it. According to the >very brief description on the package, the red LED indicates >that surge protection is working and the green LED indicates >that the unit is properly grounded. > >So, I go to plug it in and expect to see the green LED come >on and stay on, and the red one to flicker on once in a long >while to indicate surge supression. Instead, as I plugged >it in, the red LED came on immediately and the green one >doesn't. It stays this way whether I've got anything plugged >into the unit or not. > >... Could be the hot and neutral are reversed at that outlet. Have you tried plugging the unit into another outlet? Try other outlets on the same circuit (same circuit breaker) and other outlets on different circuits. You can buy a circuit tester at most hardware stores or home improvement centers. It has a three pronged plug and three small lights, two red and one green. If just the green light comes on, everything should be wired correctly. If one of the red lights comes on, of the green doesn't, something is wrong. There is usually a key right on the doohicky to decode the lights. Assuming your house was built in the last 40 years or so (i.e., wired with conventional cable, BX or conduit as opposed to old "knob and tube" wiring), here's how to do a quick check on the wiring of the outlet: (1) Turn off the circuit breaker / unscrew the fuse for the circuit (You may need to run an extension cord to another outlet on a different circuit to plug in a lamp to see what you are doing now.) (2) *TEST* Plug a lamp into the outlet and verify the current is *OFF* ***** WARNING ***** Serious injury or death may result from skipping this step!!!! (3) Remove the cover plate and remove the two screws holding the outlet in the box. (4) Gently pull the outlet out of the box. If it was properly installed the should be enough slack wire to do this. (5) Inspection: (a) The black insulated wire(s) should be attached to the brass or bronze colored screw side of the outlet. (b) The white wire(s) should be attached to the silver colored screw side of the outlet. (c) There should be a bare or green insulated wire attached to the green ground screw on the outlet. If the box itself is metal, the ground wire must also attach to the box. (6) If the Black and white wires are reversed, it is usually a simple matter to reverse them. (7) If there is no ground wire coming into the box, you are in for more major modifications that are "outside the scope of this article". Unless you are more familiar with electrical wiring than this article assumes, you may need to hire an electrician. (7) (Reinstallation) Gently (some force may be required, but gentle force) push the outlet back into the box. The wires should fold back into the box "accordion" style. Be careful you do not pinch or scrape the wires tucking them back into the box. (8) Replace screws and cover plate. (9) Restore power and test. -Alan Jeddeloh (503) 685-2991 Tektronix Network (Yes, we're still here) Displays D/S 60-180; PO Box 1000; Wilsonville, OR 97070 alanj@nevermore.wv.tek.com Quoth the printer, "Nevermore!"
bfputnam@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan Putnam) (01/11/91)
In article <1231@ncis.tis.llnl.gov> finfrock@ncis (Scott Finfrock) writes: > >On the units that I have seen the red light is on continously. >It means that the unit is functional (i.e. not burned out) not >that it is actually suppressing at that moment. > That's true. Also the green light does not signify that the surge protector is properly grounded. I have a Ruby (tm) EMI/RFI surge protector. As an experiment, I plugged it in (with an adapter) using only two prongs (not the ground). I wasn't surprised that the red light went on, but I was surprised that the green light still went on.
k3tx@wells.UUCP (Dave Heller) (01/11/91)
In article <3667@ntmtv.UUCP>, adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes: > I just got one of those surge protection/EMI/RFI plugs to > plug a bunch of home entertainment system stuff into. > Now, either the red and green LEDs are reversed (not likely), > or the wiring in the apartment doesn't have the ground hooked > up properly (likely). Does this mean I'm not going to get > surge protection? RFI/EMI filtering? What's a good test > to see what's going on with my power? How do I test whether > ground is hooked up properly? I've got a fairly good digital > multimeter... > Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379 You may have a messed up grounding system in the building - - or the device (surge suppressor with six 120 v receptacles) may have its indicator LED's reversed. Easiest thing to do is: Open the 120 v outlet box and see if the black wire goes to the copper-colored terminal on the receptacle and the white wire to the silvery terminal. There is also a terminal on the side of the device, probably painted green. This should be connected to a bare or green grounding wire, and hopefully to the box itself, assuming it it's steel. If the connections aren't as advertised the building is not properly wired, and it's best for you to stay out of it (since you had to ask, obviously you're not experienced playing with wiring and therefore shouldn't consider trying. If the box itself is plastic, as is found in much new construction these days it's a fairly sure bet that the wiring throughout uses junk and may be of poor quality. My opinion of plastic boxes is too rough even for rec.humor.sex. Good luck. K3TX s
bobo@pecan15.cray.com (Bob Kierski) (01/11/91)
In article <3667@ntmtv.UUCP>, adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes: |> I just got one of those surge protection/EMI/RFI plugs to |> plug a bunch of home entertainment system stuff into. |> |> This do-hickey turns a standard dual 3-prong household outlet |> into six surge-protected, EMI/RFI filtered 3-pronged plugs. |> |> The unit has two LEDs on the top of it. According to the |> very brief description on the package, the red LED indicates |> that surge protection is working and the green LED indicates |> that the unit is properly grounded. |> |> So, I go to plug it in and expect to see the green LED come |> on and stay on, and the red one to flicker on once in a long |> while to indicate surge supression. Instead, as I plugged |> it in, the red LED came on immediately and the green one |> doesn't. It stays this way whether I've got anything plugged |> into the unit or not. |> |> Now, either the red and green LEDs are reversed (not likely), |> or the wiring in the apartment doesn't have the ground hooked |> up properly (likely). Does this mean I'm not going to get |> surge protection? RFI/EMI filtering? What's a good test |> to see what's going on with my power? How do I test whether |> ground is hooked up properly? I've got a fairly good digital |> multimeter... |> |> -- |> |> Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379 |> UUCP: {amdahl|ames|hplabs}!ntmtv!adrian |> ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov Radio Shack has a little polarity checker. It's a three prong thing, with 3 leds on it. If everything is wired corectly the two leds on one side light up. It costs about $3. -- Have a day,
clewis@ecicrl.UUCP (Chris Lewis) (01/11/91)
In article <3667@ntmtv.UUCP> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes: >The unit has two LEDs on the top of it. According to the >very brief description on the package, the red LED indicates >that surge protection is working and the green LED indicates >that the unit is properly grounded. >So, I go to plug it in and expect to see the green LED come >on and stay on, and the red one to flicker on once in a long >while to indicate surge supression. Instead, as I plugged >it in, the red LED came on immediately and the green one >doesn't. It stays this way whether I've got anything plugged >into the unit or not. I have the same unit. Both LEDs come on. I think that the red one comes on to indicate that the surge supressor circuitry is intact and not fried, whereas the green one means you have a valid ground. The brief instructions say that once the red one goes out, the surge suppressor is shot. From Radio Shack? >Now, either the red and green LEDs are reversed (not likely), >or the wiring in the apartment doesn't have the ground hooked >up properly (likely). I think that's the real problem. >Does this mean I'm not going to get >surge protection? RFI/EMI filtering? What's a good test >to see what's going on with my power? How do I test whether >ground is hooked up properly? I've got a fairly good digital >multimeter... It's a little tricky to test a ground with a multimeter. There are little 3-LED devices costing around $5 that do a good job of testing the whole thing out. A simple test would be to use the multi-meter (on 200V scale) between each of the spades and the ground socket. One should be 110-150V, and the other should be zero or within a few volts. But this isn't definitive. It may be worth while removing the cover and seeing if anything is attached to the ground lug - especially if there's a bare wire in the cable and it's attached to the outlet, box or there's conduit. -- Chris Lewis, Phone: (613) 832-0541 UUCP: uunet!utai!lsuc!ecicrl!clewis Moderator of the Ferret Mailing List (ferret-request@eci386) Psroff mailing list (psroff-request@eci386)
asylvain@felix.UUCP (Alvin "the Chipmunk" Sylvain) (01/15/91)
In article <3667@ntmtv.UUCP> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes: > I just got one of those surge protection/EMI/RFI plugs to > plug a bunch of home entertainment system stuff into. > > This do-hickey turns a standard dual 3-prong household outlet > into six surge-protected, EMI/RFI filtered 3-pronged plugs. > > The unit has two LEDs on the top of it. According to the > very brief description on the package, the red LED indicates > that surge protection is working and the green LED indicates > that the unit is properly grounded. I get a feeling from reading the responses to your post that the little LED do-hickeys are only there to add "bells and whistles" to the silly thing. I have a similar device, no LEDs, works fine. I suspect that if the thing actually got fried from a surge, you wouldn't need to see the red light is out ... your equipment wouldn't work anymore due to lack of power! You're probably better off spending just a tad more money getting one with a built-in circuit breaker. Otherwise, do what somebody suggested and turn it in for a friendly replacement. If the do-hickeys are supposed to be on then *they durnedably had better be on!!* -- asylvain@felix.UUCP (Alvin "the Chipmunk" Sylvain) ========================= Opinions are Mine, Typos belong to /usr/ucb/vi "We're sorry, but the reality you have dialed is no longer in service. Please check the value of pi, or see your SysOp for assistance." UUCP: hplabs!felix!asylvain ============================================
clewis@ecicrl.UUCP (Chris Lewis) (01/16/91)
In article <155720@felix.UUCP> asylvain@felix.UUCP (Alvin "the Chipmunk" Sylvain) writes: >In article <3667@ntmtv.UUCP> adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes: >> I just got one of those surge protection/EMI/RFI plugs to >> plug a bunch of home entertainment system stuff into. >> This do-hickey turns a standard dual 3-prong household outlet >> into six surge-protected, EMI/RFI filtered 3-pronged plugs. >> The unit has two LEDs on the top of it. According to the >> very brief description on the package, the red LED indicates >> that surge protection is working and the green LED indicates >> that the unit is properly grounded. >I get a feeling from reading the responses to your post that the little >LED do-hickeys are only there to add "bells and whistles" to the silly >thing. I have a similar device, no LEDs, works fine. I suspect that if >the thing actually got fried from a surge, you wouldn't need to see the >red light is out ... your equipment wouldn't work anymore due to lack of >power! Not necessarily - a spike can easily kill the devices used to short out the spikes with/without damaging the protected equipment, or breaking the electrical path thru the do-hickey. Most surge protectors consist of one or more MOVs (or TransZORBS or the like) connected between one or more pairs of the three wires in an outlet - if zapped, they'll open-circuit, no longer protect, but not damage the wiring from the plug to the socket. Without necessarily showing any damage on the case. Thus, the RED led does have some value. As I mentioned in my response, I figger he doesn't have a real ground on the outlet, so at least part of the surge protection won't work ANYWAYS. >You're probably better off spending just a tad more money getting one >with a built-in circuit breaker. I've come to the conclusion that one with a circuit breaker is a waste of money if you have breakers in your main panel. The main panel breakers are more likely to work in the crunch, more accurate, and are more likely to work more than once. Though, if your panel has fuses, the breaker might just trip a teensy bit faster and save a bit more electronics. Though, if someone can suggest a good reason for having two breakers (panel and outlet), maybe I'll change my mind. Further, remember, that a breaker is NOT going to trip fast enough to prevent damage to electronics from power problems. It's there to trip during *long* (relative) current surges in the connected equipment - which is usually a sign that something is already busted. On a heavy hit (big enough to break something), first: the protectors will die, the electronics will melt, and your breaker will pop if the electronics (or wiring) has failed in a shorted condition. Breaker trip time is awful long compared to most spike durations and the threshold for disturbing or destroying solid state electronics. Fuse trip time is so slow that a dead short between power conductors can sometimes do an amazing amount of damage before the fuse finally blows, and in blowing, if it explodes (which is not that uncommon with dead shorts), the damage can sometimes become considerably worse - melted panels, fires and all. (One I was involved with even started a fire on the pole!). Don't panic - this is usually only with industrial size and current systems. Breakers are better, but sometimes they too don't trip fast enough. >Otherwise, do what somebody suggested >and turn it in for a friendly replacement. If the do-hickeys are >supposed to be on then *they durnedably had better be on!!* True, but he'd be better off buying a 3 LED outlet tester dohickey to find out whether he has a good ground. They're only a few bucks, and he can use it to test his other outlets. -- Chris Lewis, Phone: (613) 832-0541 UUCP: uunet!utai!lsuc!ecicrl!clewis Moderator of the Ferret Mailing List (ferret-request@eci386) Psroff mailing list (psroff-request@eci386)