[sci.electronics] Prescalers

hack@math14.math.umbc.edu (03/20/91)

   In a recent Radio Electronics issue (dec 1990) they detail
a frequency counter.  In their design they use a CD4017 decade
counter together with a 7490 bcd counter as a prescaler.  The
counter is the Harris ICM7216CIJI.  The Harris counter is a
10MHz frequency counter.  They claim that with their setup the
counter is good upto around 1.8GHz ...

   The problem I have is this.  The CD4017 is a cmos device
(slow) evan most ttl counters are not usable for much greater
than 100MHz.  Evan the 7490 is rated for a clock frequency of
no more than 35MHZ So how does this circuit do what it says.  If I
have made some mistake in something somewhere would some kind
soul tell me.  If not does anyone know of any prescalers
usable in this frequency range ( upto 100GHz or evan 1GHZ).

Thank you in advance,
J. Hack

henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (03/21/91)

In article <5463@umbc3.UMBC.EDU> hack@math14.math.umbc.edu () writes:
>   In a recent Radio Electronics issue (dec 1990) they detail
>a frequency counter.  In their design they use a CD4017 decade
>counter together with a 7490 bcd counter as a prescaler.  The
>counter is the Harris ICM7216CIJI.  The Harris counter is a
>10MHz frequency counter.  They claim that with their setup the
>counter is good upto around 1.8GHz ...

The claim was retracted in a later issue.
-- 
"[Some people] positively *wish* to     | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
believe ill of the modern world."-R.Peto|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry

dmturne@PacBell.COM (Dave Turner) (03/21/91)

In article <5463@umbc3.UMBC.EDU> hack@math14.math.umbc.edu () writes:
>
>   In a recent Radio Electronics issue (dec 1990) they detail
>a frequency counter.  In their design they use a CD4017 decade
>counter together with a 7490 bcd counter as a prescaler.  The
>counter is the Harris ICM7216CIJI.  The Harris counter is a
>10MHz frequency counter.  They claim that with their setup the
>counter is good upto around 1.8GHz ...
>
>   The problem I have is this.  The CD4017 is a cmos device
>(slow) evan most ttl counters are not usable for much greater
>than 100MHz.  Evan the 7490 is rated for a clock frequency of
>no more than 35MHZ So how does this circuit do what it says.  If I
>have made some mistake in something somewhere would some kind

Check Radio-Electronics, February, 1991, page 21.

I quote:

	"We greatly exaggerated the capabilities of the counter.
	Because of the components used, the counter cannot perform
	at frequencies above 25 MHz. We're sorry for any confusion
	our misstatements caused."

They also give the PC patterns which were omitted from the original
article, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to build this thing.


One prescaler that works to 1.25 GHz is the RCA CA3179E.


-- 
Dave Turner	415/823-2001	{att,bellcore,sun,ames,decwrl}!pacbell!dmturne

mzenier@polari.UUCP (Mark Zenier) (03/21/91)

In article <5463@umbc3.UMBC.EDU> hack@math14.math.umbc.edu () writes:
>
>   In a recent Radio Electronics issue (dec 1990) they detail
>a frequency counter.  In their design they use a CD4017 decade
>counter together with a 7490 bcd counter as a prescaler.  The
>counter is the Harris ICM7216CIJI.  The Harris counter is a
>10MHz frequency counter.  They claim that with their setup the
>counter is good upto around 1.8GHz ...
>
>   The problem I have is this.  The CD4017 is a cmos device
>(slow) evan most ttl counters are not usable for much greater
>than 100MHz.  Evan the 7490 is rated for a clock frequency of
>no more than 35MHZ So how does this circuit do what it says.  

They printed a correction a few months later that the counter was 
only good for thirty some MHz.

>If not does anyone know of any prescalers
>usable in this frequency range ( upto 100GHz or evan 1GHZ).

There have been three or four more counter project in Radio-Electronics
over the past several years.  They seem fond of the 11c90 prescaler from
National.  There is also the mc12073, mc12074 and the like from Motorola
and some stuff I don't have data on from from Plessy, Telefunken, Siemens,
and Fujitsu.  Some go up to 2.4 or 2.7 GHz.  More go to 1.1 to 1.6 GHz.


Mark Zenier  markz@ssc.uucp  mzenier@polari.uucp

carmijo@hpnmdla.hp.com (Chris Armijo) (03/22/91)

>>       The problem I have is this.  The CD4017 is a cmos device
>>    (slow) evan most ttl counters are not usable for much greater
>>    than 100MHz.  Evan the 7490 is rated for a clock frequency of
>>    no more than 35MHZ So how does this circuit do what it says.  If I
>>    have made some mistake in something somewhere would some kind
>>    soul tell me.  If not does anyone know of any prescalers
>>    usable in this frequency range ( upto 100GHz or evan 1GHZ).


You're exactly right.  This was a big error on the maganize's part.
If I remember correctly, they printed a small correction in the
February (January, March?) issue where they correctly state that the
upper frequency limit is more like 10MHz.

By the way, there are ECL prescalars on the market nowadays that can
work well into the GHZ range.  Some samples:

	NEC UPB585	2.5GHz divide by 4
	NEC UPB586	2.5GHZ divide by 512/256
	Avantek  IFD-50010	5GHz divide by  4
	Avantek  IFD-50210	3.5GHZ divide by 4

These are all silicon, bipolar technology. (Go Bipolar!)

To use parts like these you need to use special layout techniques
(of course) -- wire wrap doesn't work too well at 1 GHz!.
Microstrip is called for.

Chris Armijo