vatche@pedsga.UUCP (Vatche Daghlian) (08/01/89)
I am in the process of determining the best alarm system to install in my new car. The names that I have run across are: 1) Crime Stopper 2) Ungo Box 3) Derringer My question is: Has anyone out in NET-land had any experience with any one of these units. If so, I would appreciate it if you would drop me a line informing me of your experiences. Thank you. Vatche Daghlian
cyamamot@nunki.usc.edu (Cliff Yamamoto) (08/02/89)
In article <945@pedsga.UUCP> vatche@pedsga.UUCP (Vatche Daghlian,SPCSYS,7546) writes: >I am in the process of determining the best alarm system to >install in my new car. The names that I have run across >are: > 1) Crime Stopper > 2) Ungo Box > 3) Derringer > >Has anyone out in NET-land had any experience with any one >of these units. I have an Ungo in my car and am very happy with it. I think someone else also posted they have an Ungo as well. The Ungo has it hands down in terms of motion/shock sensing. Allow me to elaborate a bit. They use two mecury "bulbs" mounted perpendicular on the horizontal axis. These "bulbs" are surronded by coils that are connected to a circuit similar to that in a metal detector. When you arm the alarm, the microcontroller allows 30 seconds for the mecury to settle down to the position of car (i.e. on a hill, embankment, etc). Once settled, the microcontroller "nulls" the detector for the current position of the mecury. From this point on, any disturbance to the mecury will cause the detector to go off "null" and trigger the alarm. This type of motion/shock sensing has no moving parts (unless you consider mecury in a glass bulb a 'moving part') and thus never wears out. Because detection is done electronically, you can adjust the sensitivity and forget it. Sensitivity doesn't change due to worn out parts. Other alarms either use a mechanical weight-loaded switch that turns on when jarred or a ball bearing encased above a circuit board with copper traces for conduction when jarred. The Ungo can be had for as little as $145 (non-remote) uninstalled. I'm not familiar with Crime Stopper but the Derringers start at $300 installed (** I was going to get a Derringer until I found out no wiring instructions are provided and the warranty is void unless a dealer does it for you ) I preferred to install a car alarm myself and since the Ungo had a better sensor and came with wiring instructions I purchased it. If you need more tech info on the Ungo let me know. Cliff Yamamoto
chrisb@escargot.UUCP (Chris Bradley) (08/05/89)
In article <945@pedsga.UUCP> vatche@pedsga.UUCP (Vatche Daghlian,SPCSYS,7546) writes: > >I am in the process of determining the best alarm system to >install in my new car. The names that I have run across >are: > > 1) Crime Stopper > 2) Ungo Box > 3) Derringer > >My question is: > >Has anyone out in NET-land had any experience with any one >of these units. If so, I would appreciate it if you would >drop me a line informing me of your experiences. Ah yes, the days of car alarms. I used to sell them. All the above you just listed. What do I like best? The UNGO! Why? The Ungo sensor is both motion and shock, meaning if someone jacks up your car or kicks the tires, it will sound the alarm. The sensor is made out of mercury filled tubes with an inductive pickup around each one. They both are used to determine the position of the vehicle in the right to left fashion and the forward to rear fashion. The Ungos are very easy to install, very simple to operates, and, most of all DO THE JOB WELL! You can set an Ungo's sensitivity anywhere from a slight tap of the car to having to rock the thing. It's also very good on false alarms. If you just push down on your car once, the alarm won't go off. If it's jacked up or bounced more than once, it will sound the alarm, providing you have the sensitivity set that high. All of Ungo's new boxes are surface-mounted and QC'd over 4000 times in the factory. You can get the basic remote package anywhere from $135-195 depending on where you go (TL-1255) to the full-blown alarm system (TL-4000). Features on each alarm system differ, however you can expand a TL-1255 to equal the features of the TL-4000. It'll cost you more though!! The most important thing in any alarm system is the sensor. Since Mercury won't freeze in normal human temperatures, your sensor won't come out of alignment, break, or otherwise get knocked around to where it won't work any more. Both the Derringer and the Crimestopper have shock sensors with motion sensors as an option. I've owned both a Clifford and a Viper and never will own one again. If you want the horror stories on each, I'll be glad to provide details. :-) If you have any more questions on specifics on any of the alarm systems mentioned above, feel free to drop me a line! -->Chris
chris@zorin.UUCP (Christopher Nielsen) (08/08/89)
In article <273@escargot.UUCP>, chrisb@escargot.UUCP (Chris Bradley) writes: > In article <945@pedsga.UUCP> vatche@pedsga.UUCP (Vatche Daghlian,SPCSYS,7546) writes: > > The sensor is made out of mercury filled tubes with an inductive pickup around > each one. They both are used to determine the position of the vehicle in the > right to left fashion and the forward to rear fashion. > > ... > > The most important thing in any alarm system is the sensor. Since Mercury > won't freeze in normal human temperatures, your sensor won't come out of > > -->Chris Interesting stuff... As I wrote a few months ago, I built my own car alarm out of a Radio Shack Model 100, and an interface. I am using one of the Radio Shack shock sensors. I don't think this is mercury, though. I seems to work ok, but I think it could be a bit more sensitive. Since I have written the program to function as the alarm, I can cancel out the first 'bump', or even the second, within a specified time... etc. I am interested in sensors, and the one you mentioned on the UNGO sounds much better than the one I'm using now. Can I get one seperately? How much? Also, what about sound descriminators, and other types of sensors? Are door switches much worth using if you have a shock/motion sensor? Someone who once sold car alarms should have some opinions on such things.... Now I just have to get the service manual for my car, and figure out how to interface to the diagnostic port under the hood, or something to disable the engine if in alarm mode... Gee... I wonder what intersting bits of information I can decode out of those diagnostic connectors? BTW this is '89 Jeep Cherokee, should anyone already know.... Christopher A. Nielsen ////////////////// Zorin Data Systems, Inc //// P.O. Box 5669 Santa Monica, CA 90405-0669 //// (213) 399-3804 x 45 //// UUCP: randvax!zorin!info //// <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Zorin... "The Future On-Line" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < Online Product Information and other services - Call or write for free demo >
cwcst1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Carol Coates) (03/30/91)
Greetings. A friend's car-alarm was having problems and he had to drive several blocks (to the repair shop) with the siren going full-blast - no one even bother to look at him. Now, we just got a nice van (silly me, telling everyone :-) and I want to not only protect it but also make sure that when the alarm goes off, people NOTICE! I have a few ideas. Some are simple (maybe even some systems use them) and some are of unknow "legality". 1) Use the standard alarm but instead of the siren, put in a small 555-based circuit which after a pre-set number of seconds will cut the power to the distributor. That way, the thief thinks that the car died of it's own... One could improve on that by allowing the car to be started and driven for a few more seconds... then die. 2) Use the power-locks (continuous "lock"), blast the siren INSIDE the car, and cut the engine. This, of course, would be after several attempts at the keypad and/or "owner" switch. Not sure if it's legal to cause a headache to a criminal - with that wonderful judicial system of ours [gasp...puke] 3) Cause the car to stall and blast a siren and blink the ligts and ring the bells and turn on the smoke-bomb and .... Also, of course, after several attempts (warnings) to disarm. Anyone? I'm thinking of #1 since it's not only doable but also has the greatest possibility of scaring the possible-thief. It is also not only save in case of an accidental arming but also legal (though I won't bet the farm on it - maybe the thief needed to get to a hospital for his condition, etc....) #2 is for those whose car has been stolen in the past - great if you get to watch the incident - in person... ;-) #3 is also doable - but the smoke bomb may be a little hard to control in case of an accidental "arming".... Take care. Anyone have a simple design for #1. I think I saw it as a PLA project in some "old" book, but I'm not sure... Take care. P.S. Yes, our car was stolen several weeks ago - we got it back and the insurance paid $11,000 for it's repair. Why so much? Search me - the sticker price of our car was $14,500...........
forbes@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Jeff Forbes) (03/31/91)
In article <109730@unix.cis.pitt.edu> cwcst1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Carol Coates) writes: > > 2) Use the power-locks (continuous "lock"), blast the siren > INSIDE the car, and cut the engine. This, of course, would > be after several attempts at the keypad and/or "owner" switch. > Not sure if it's legal to cause a headache to a criminal - > with that wonderful judicial system of ours [gasp...puke] > > #2 is for those whose car has been stolen in the past - great if > you get to watch the incident - in person... ;-) > You probably don't want to lock the doors. With a 130 dB 2500 Hz piezoelectric siren the would be thief would not want to stay in the car for long. I believe that 2500 Hz is the peak in human ear sensitivity. Jeff Forbes "....I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Edison
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (03/31/91)
In article <109730@unix.cis.pitt.edu> cwcst1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Carol Coates) writes: > 2) Use the power-locks (continuous "lock"), blast the siren > INSIDE the car, and cut the engine... There is a big legal difference between doing something intended to scare a thief off and something intended to injure him. The latter is considered an excessive response to mere theft, and is very seriously illegal. (As in, you could be in much more trouble than he is.) The interior siren should be okay, but locking the doors on him so you can blast his eardrums uninterrupted is not. (You might also want to consider the practical question of how much damage he will do trying to get out in a hurry.) -- "The stories one hears about putting up | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology SunOS 4.1.1 are all true." -D. Harrison| henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
s872607@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (George Tzanatos) (03/31/91)
forbes@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Jeff Forbes) writes: >In article <109730@unix.cis.pitt.edu> cwcst1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Carol Coates) writes: >> >> 2) Use the power-locks (continuous "lock"), blast the siren >> INSIDE the car, and cut the engine. This, of course, would >> be after several attempts at the keypad and/or "owner" switch. >> Not sure if it's legal to cause a headache to a criminal - >> with that wonderful judicial system of ours [gasp...puke] Just one small point....Most car reappropriators generally don't like damage to their person, and usually return the favour to your car. Now, 20000 volts under the seat has a great appeal.... :)
scott@blueeyes.kines.uiuc.edu (scott) (04/01/91)
In article <1991Mar31.111957.15493@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> s872607@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (George Tzanatos) writes: > >Just one small point....Most car reappropriators generally don't like >damage to their person, and usually return the favour to your car. > >Now, 20000 volts under the seat has a great appeal.... :) No doubt this has already been mentioned, but the ultimate is the car alarm system featured at the beginning of RoboCop II. ;-) Of course, Batman's vehicle protection system (the bulletproof second skin which surrounds the car when Batman calls for "shields") is almost as much fun and lots legaler. ;-) ;-) -- Scott Coleman tmkk@uiuc.edu "Unisys has demonstrated the power of two. That's their stock price today." - Scott McNealy on the history of mergers in the computer industry.
s872607@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (George Tzanatos) (04/03/91)
scott@blueeyes.kines.uiuc.edu (scott) writes: >In article <1991Mar31.111957.15493@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> s872607@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (George Tzanatos) writes: >> >>Just one small point....Most car reappropriators generally don't like >>damage to their person, and usually return the favour to your car. >> >>Now, 20000 volts under the seat has a great appeal.... :) >No doubt this has already been mentioned, but the ultimate is the car alarm >system featured at the beginning of RoboCop II. ;-) >Of course, Batman's vehicle protection system (the bulletproof second skin >which surrounds the car when Batman calls for "shields") is almost as much >fun and lots legaler. ;-) ;-) Then again, 007's exploding Lotus (For Your Eyes Only) takes the cake :)
tmkk@uiuc.edu (Scott Coleman) (04/09/91)
In article <1991Apr3.110300.17569@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> s872607@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (George Tzanatos) writes: >scott@blueeyes.kines.uiuc.edu (scott) writes: > >>No doubt this has already been mentioned, but the ultimate is the car alarm >>system featured at the beginning of RoboCop II. ;-) > >>Of course, Batman's vehicle protection system (the bulletproof second skin >>which surrounds the car when Batman calls for "shields") is almost as much >>fun and lots legaler. ;-) ;-) > >Then again, 007's exploding Lotus (For Your Eyes Only) takes the cake :) That's not all it takes! Personally, I prefer a vehicle PROTECTION system, not a vehicle DESTRUCTION system. I thought the idea behind an alarm system was to insure that a complete and driveable vehicle remained where you last left it. ;-)
dag@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (David Geiser) (04/09/91)
In sci.electronics, cwcst1@unix.cis.pitt.edu writes:
c>
c> Greetings. A friend's car-alarm was having problems and he
c> had to drive several blocks (to the repair shop) with the
c> siren going full-blast - no one even bother to look at him.
That's because they're used to false alarms.
Make your alarm really obnoxious, but prevent falses.
Our neighbor's car has falsed about once/month for the last six
or seven months. The next time it falses at 11pm, I'm signing a
Disturbing The Peace Complaint.
dagmulligan@coral.bucknell.edu (04/15/91)
Not too long ago, there was a series of discussions about car alarms, and how to make them more effective. The discussions seemed to center arounalerting others to the theft. I always thought the idea was to prevent the act in the first place. Here's an idea I got from a car buff down the street from me: He suggested that I remove the coil to distributor wire, and replace it with a wire from the high side of the coil to a nail driven into the ground. He said to turn the ignition to the 'run' position, and to close the door without touchinganything_ metal on the car. When you get back, kick out the wire to to the ground, then get in the car. Supposedly, this makes anyone trying to tamper with the car part of a path from the coil through them to grou. Remember that the car body is the ground foor the system. The rubber tires serve as an insulator, so the coil doesn't discharge unless someone touches the car. I would think this kills the battery after a short time. I think this fits into the 'could get you into trouble' section, but I offer it as a semi-humorous idea. I wouldn't want to be the one to explain what happened to the mother of a toddler that touched the car in a parking lot! (So much for dogs using the tires instead of a tree. . .) Please don't go hurting anyone! I offer this as (possibly) the world's cheapest car theft prevention device. ~Ed~
esupg@warwick.ac.uk (Andrew Bargery) (04/15/91)
hmm, I appear to have missed the discussion of car alarms first time round, so
I hope no one has already said the following. If they have, sorry.
One "new" alarm that has recently appeared here is a stand alone unit that
sits on the dash. It works by air pressure - when some opens the door they set
it off. Another one is an ultrasonic system (I think) incorporated in a teddy
bear that sits on the rear shelf. Both these systems seem 'neat' but I
don't see them being much good. You could probably reduce the sound to an
acceptable level by just wrapping a coat around device. Or throwing out of the
window. But maybe they deter joyriders...
Some of my favorite ideas however, are a little sneakier...
I saw a design in an electronics magazine that connected to the contact
breaker. It was based around a tacho chip that remained inactive for the first
few seconds, then it cuts in and cuts the supply to the CB if the revs go
above ~1500. Hence the thief can start the car, think he's done it, then he
tries to pull away....
In a similar vein, I beleive there are kits that allow you to place a valve in
the petrol line. The fuel in the carb. allows the car to be started, then
it cuts out and wont restart....
However, my personal favorite to ensure your car is there when you get back:
(I don't know if any one has actually tried this...)
With the increased use of ECUs in cars, why not have the software encoded by a
DES algorithm? Unless you know the password, it's going to be
just-a-little-tricky to hot wire :-)
------------------------------ esupg@uk.ac.warwick.cu -----------------------
_____ Andrew University of Warwick, Coventry, UK.
/__|__\__ Bargery 154 Brunswick St, Leamington, CV31 2ER, UK.
**=`()====()" vox : +44 926 881264
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: I only drive to get from A to B. Very quickly.mzenier@polari.UUCP (Mark Zenier) (04/16/91)
In article <1991Apr14.224844.3126@coral.bucknell.edu> mulligan@coral.bucknell.edu writes: >Not too long ago, there was a series of discussions about car alarms, and how >to make them more effective. >... >He suggested that I remove the coil to distributor wire, and replace it with a >wire from the high side of the coil to a nail driven into the ground. He said >to turn the ignition to the 'run' position, and to close the door without >touchinganything_ metal on the car. When you get back, kick out the wire to >to the ground, then get in the car. Since the main purpose of a car alarm is to prevent the theft of the radio. And the first thing that I would do if some stray car bit me was to hook the antenna to the nearest grounded object, thus frying at least part of the radio. (and maybe even work in a way to kill off the motor control computer in the process.) I'd say this is a really bad idea. Mark Zenier markz@ssc.uucp mzenier@polari.uucp
depolo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jeff DePolo) (04/16/91)
In article <3778@polari.UUCP> mzenier@polari.UUCP (Mark Zenier) writes: >Since the main purpose of a car alarm is to prevent the theft of the >radio. > >Mark Zenier markz@ssc.uucp mzenier@polari.uucp Hardly. The main purpose of a car alarm is to prevent your car from being stolen. If you're only concerned about the stereo, buy a pull-out type. Why would anyone invest $300-$2000 in a car alarm if they were only worried about a car stereo, which is usually less expensive than the car alarm? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jeff DePolo N3HBZ/AE Twisted Pair: (215) 386-7199 depolo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu RF: 146.685- 442.70+ 144.455s (Philadelphia) University of Pennsylvania Carrier Pigeon: 420 S. 42nd St. Phila PA 19104