violence@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Violence) (04/14/89)
CALL FOR VOTES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I would like to see the addition of 'comp.os.primos' to the USENET community. PRIMOS is a major operating system and deserves more than a mere post or two in comp.os.misc. I will be polling votes for the next 4 weeks. Every week I will tally up all current votes (for/against) and present them to the net community. If you are for this new conference then press 'r' now and tell me so! I understand that there is a PRIMOS distribution list. Has anyone any info regarding this? Thank you. Violence/TVH
acarter@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Alfonso Carter) (04/14/89)
In article <480@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> violence@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Violence) writes: >CALL FOR VOTES >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >I would like to see the addition of 'comp.os.primos' to the USENET community. >PRIMOS is a major operating system and deserves more than a mere post or two >in comp.os.misc. I will be polling votes for the next 4 weeks. Every week >I will tally up all current votes (for/against) and present them to the net >community. If you are for this new conference then press 'r' now and tell >me so! > > I vote yes.
dewey@sequoia.UUCP (Dewey Henize) (04/15/89)
In article <480@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> violence@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Violence) writes: >CALL FOR VOTES >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I would like to see the addition of 'comp.os.primos' to the USENET community. >PRIMOS is a major operating system and deserves more than a mere post or two ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >in comp.os.misc. I will be polling votes for the next 4 weeks. Every week ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I will tally up all current votes (for/against) and present them to the net >community. If you are for this new conference then press 'r' now and tell >me so! > >I understand that there is a PRIMOS distribution list. Has anyone any info >regarding this? Thank you. > >Violence/TVH First, you haven't shown anything resembling a need for the 'conference' (it's called a 'newsgroup' usually). As a matter of fact, you present a wonderful case for why it SHOULD NOT be a newsgroup with your own statement about 'a mere post or two in comp.os.misc.' The point of newsgroups is to separate out specific topics that have regularly shown enough interest to justify their own namespace, not just because you would LIKE to see more postings. This is especially true in the comp groups. You seem to be making the case that PRIMOS should have its own place to get posts based on your perception that its an important operating system, and not based at all on any indication of activity ON USENET regarding it. This is backwards, if there is expressed need shown by number of postings in a subject, THEN is when you try to get a newsgroup - you don't try to get a newsgroup (especially a comp newsgroup) for something no one shows any real interest it. Second, you don't start collecting votes out of the blue. Although there are always minor variances, the procedure is basically to first call for discussion by posting to groups where there has appeared to be an interested group and to redirect followups and further discussion to news.groups. Granted, when you start out with no groups that show a significant amount of interest it's gonna be hard, but that should show something in itself :-). After a minimum discussion of two weeks in news.groups, a call for votes is appropriate, with the votes for and against being collected by someone at a reasonably well connected site. Currently it takes a count of 100 MORE yes votes than no votes for a group. Personal Opinion: PRIMOS is of, at best, peripheral interest to the vast majority of net.folks. It only runs on Prime machines, which are not exactly the most widely used machines around, and it would seem that that trend is increasing. Prime machines themselves are not compatable with much or anything else, and often with each other (at the software level). It would seem that Prime is fairly aware of this, given their recent diversification into more widely accepted areas, like 386 Unix boxes and CADD systems. How much of the net community uses PRIMOS though is probably pretty low. In the last couple years I don't recall seeing anyone discuss putting anything like rn or notes or news on a PRIME running PRIMOS - although with the diversity of folks we have, there's bound to be someone that attempted it somewhere out of shear perversity. We've had several PRIME machines where I work. Right now, one of the things I'm really looking forward to is our scheduled deinstall of the last one. If it doesn't hang at least once a week we know no one has logged it. Disks seem to get clobbered about that often on average too. Trying to teach a new user anything like an underlying structure or philosophy of the system so that they can use it effectively is a real exercise in frustration. And wow, such an impressive array of supported and effective word processing tools! If you gather from the above I don't think much of PRIME, you're pretty much on the right track. <again note, personal opinion, standard disclaimers apply, etc.> If you also gather that I don't think there's a real audience for a group specifically for PRIMOS on Usenet, you are also correct. However, if you think those two opinions are inextricably linked, you are incorrect. Why don't you try FIRST to get on the distribution list, if such a critter exists, instead of starting first with the suggestion that several thousand sites start carrying a group that's shown basically no need to exist? Dewey Henize -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | There is nothing in the above message that can't be explained by sunspots. | | execu!dewey Dewey Henize | | Can you say standard disclaimer? I knew you could. Somehow... | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
violence@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Violence) (04/17/89)
In article <453@sequoia.UUCP> dewey@sequoia.UUCP (Dewey Henize) writes: >First, you haven't shown anything resembling a need for the 'conference' (it's >called a 'newsgroup' usually). A mere technicality (referring to my misnomer). >As a matter of fact, you present a wonderful case for why it SHOULD NOT be a >newsgroup with your own statement about 'a mere post or two in comp.os.misc.' Are you always this friendly? >The point of newsgroups is to separate out specific topics that have regularly >shown enough interest to justify their own namespace, not just because you >would LIKE to see more postings. This is especially true in the comp groups. I would hope that there are some other PRIMOS enthusiasts out there. Let's see if any come out of the woodwork regarding this, shall we? >You seem to be making the case that PRIMOS should have its own place to get >posts based on your perception that its an important operating system, and >not based at all on any indication of activity ON USENET regarding it. Point taken. I shall now try and generate some interest. >This is backwards, if there is expressed need shown by number of postings in a >subject, THEN is when you try to get a newsgroup - you don't try to get a >newsgroup (especially a comp newsgroup) for something no one shows any real >interest it. Why not? Sounds like a bad case of conformism to me. Point is that I have seen posts regarding PRIMOS more than once on the net. That is why I am doing this. >Second, you don't start collecting votes out of the blue. [stuff deleted] >After a minimum discussion of two weeks in news.groups, a call for votes is >appropriate, with the votes for and against being collected by someone at a >reasonably well connected site. Currently it takes a count of 100 MORE yes >votes than no votes for a group. I am relatively new on the USENET scene (perhaps 5 months of use) and had no idea how to initiate a new newsgroup. Thusly, I followed the procedure I had seen used before. Please pardon my fouling up of the protocols. >Personal Opinion: PRIMOS is of, at best, peripheral interest to the vast >majority of net.folks. I will assume that the general term 'net.folks' refers to people that use data networks. If you are referring to only USENET people then you'll have to learn to be more specific in the future. >It only runs on Prime machines, which are not exactly the most widely used >machines around, and it would seem that that trend is increasing. Can we have some proof to support your allegations? >Prime machines themselves are not compatable with much or anything else, and >often with each other (at the software level). I have been using PRIMOS since 1984 and have not encountered any serious compatibility problems. Perhaps you just had a bad childhood experience? >In the last couple years I don't recall seeing anyone discuss putting anything >like rn or notes or news on a PRIME running PRIMOS - [stuff deleted] A PRIMOS implementation of RN is currently underway. >We've had several PRIME machines where I work. Right now, one of the things >I'm really looking forward to is our scheduled deinstall of the last one. A sadist! >Trying to teach a new user anything like an underlying structure or philosophy >of the system so that they can use it effectively is a real exercise in >frustration. That's a cop out if I *ever* heard one! Just because the people where you are fail to teach PRIMOS properly is no reason to say that PRIMOS is more difficult to learn than any other common OS. I say 'fail to teach properly' because of the fact that PRIMOS is as easy to learn as any other common OS, such as UNIX or VAX/VMS. I was able to learn and understand PRIMOS rather easily in a short amount of time. >And wow, such an impressive array of supported and effective word processing >tools! There is an over-abundance of WP related products for PRIMOS. This is starting to change, albeit slowly. Prime Computer, Inc. is, as you have said prev- iously, expanding their sphere of work, and hackers like myself are constantly working to create new and useful utilities. >Why don't you try FIRST to get on the distribution list, if such a critter >exists, instead of starting first with the suggestion that several thousand >sites start carrying a group that's shown basically no need to exist? I had no idea that a PRIME mailing list existed, but now that I do I shall get on it. And I shall continue to muster support for comp.os.primos. If you think I plan on giving up then you are undeniably mistaken. Violence VOID
acarter@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Alfonso Carter) (04/18/89)
From: > article 913 in comp.os.misc: > from: dewey@sequoia.UUCP (Dewey Henize) > Subject: Re: A call for votes! > Summary: This isn't even close to how you do it... > Message-ID: <453@sequoia.UUCP> > Date: 15 Apr 89 14:42:24 GMT > References: <480@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> > Reply-To: dewey@sequoia.UUCP (Dewey Henize) > Distribution: usa > Organization: Home for Recalcitrant Hackers > First, you haven't shown anything resembling a need for the 'conference' (it's > called a 'newsgroup' usually). As a matter of fact, you present a wonderful > case for why it SHOULD NOT be a newsgroup with your own statement about 'a mere > post or two in comp.os.misc.' The point of newsgroups is to separate out > specific topics that have regularly shown enough interest to justify their > own namespace, not just because you would LIKE to see more postings. This > is especially true in the comp groups. Opinion [Personal]: So what if he said conference? Cardinal sin to you I would guess. So what if there have been no posts? Since there is no newgroup for it, where would one post it? Not in here. You'd yell and scream about it since you obviously don't like PRIMOS. With people who treat newgroups like the bible, you'd get mad becuase the posted about PRIMOS, in comp.os.misc, and say it belonged in comp.os.primos if there was one, since there isn't you would say such articles shouldn't be posted. > You seem to be making the case that PRIMOS should have its own place to get > posts based on your perception that its an important operating system, and > not based at all on any indication of activity ON USENET regarding it. This > is backwards, if there is expressed need shown by number of postings in a > subject, THEN is when you try to get a newsgroup - you don't try to get a > newsgroup (especially a comp newsgroup) for something no one shows any real > interest it. Give us all a break. If there is reason for a newsgroup, there should be one. If you don't want it, keep it out of your .newsrc and don't carry the group on your computer. Just because there isn't activity YET in your eyes on the USENET does NOT mean that on the regular BBS side there isn't. > Second, you don't start collecting votes out of the blue. Although there are > always minor variances, the procedure is basically to first call for discussion > by posting to groups where there has appeared to be an interested group and > to redirect followups and further discussion to news.groups. Granted, when > you start out with no groups that show a significant amount of interest it's > gonna be hard, but that should show something in itself :-). After a minimum > discussion of two weeks in news.groups, a call for votes is appropriate, with > the votes for and against being collected by someone at a reasonably well > connected site. Currently it takes a count of 100 MORE yes votes than no votes > for a group. Ok. Please outline the procedure so you won't go pointing out technicali- ties in the future. Post it in here [comp.os.misc] so we ALL can see it. I have not seen any rules about creating a newsgroup for sometime [if there was one, you'll have to excuse me for not reading EVERY article in EVERY newsgroup]. > Personal Opinion: PRIMOS is of, at best, peripheral interest to the vast > majority of net.folks. It only runs on Prime machines, which are not exactly > the most widely used machines around, and it would seem that that trend is > increasing. Prime machines themselves are not compatable with much or anything > else, and often with each other (at the software level). It would seem that > Prime is fairly aware of this, given their recent diversification into more > widely accepted areas, like 386 Unix boxes and CADD systems. How much of the > net community uses PRIMOS though is probably pretty low. True, it only runs on Prime Machines. They are pretty compatible at the software level. Maybe you've written a program for Unix and tried to compile it on a PRIME? Second, I have seen some very LARGE PrimOS Nets, Larger than most Unix-Ethernet Linked ones. They are still in BIG use. Where have you been? GTE Telenet uses them ALOT. So what if they aren't on the USENET. Does that mean they don't exist or something?? > [prefix above] In the last couple of [suffix below] > years I don't recall seeing anyone discuss putting anything like rn or notes > or news on a PRIME running PRIMOS - although with the diversity of folks we > have, there's bound to be someone that attempted it somewhere out of shear > perversity. You always this tolerant about articles posted about machines that you don't like? It is like me saying, "Messages Posted about <an OS> are perverted because I have only seen a very few." > We've had several PRIME machines where I work. Right now, one of the things > I'm really looking forward to is our scheduled deinstall of the last one. > If it doesn't hang at least once a week we know no one has logged it. Disks > seem to get clobbered about that often on average too. Trying to teach a > new user anything like an underlying structure or philosophy of the system > so that they can use it effectively is a real exercise in frustration. Its obvious you don't like PRIMOS, and Congradulations. You're being very diplomatic about it. Proper Maintenance would solve your problems. Also, It helps to TRY to work with a computer instead of saying, "It hangs up too much. I don't like it." and then giving up. That is really very bad. It is called ignorance. I work with computers/OSs I don't like, but not against them. BIG difference. > If you gather from the above I don't think much of PRIME, you're pretty much > on the right track. <again note, personal opinion, standard disclaimers apply, > etc.> If you also gather that I don't think there's a real audience for a > group specifically for PRIMOS on Usenet, you are also correct. However, if > you think those two opinions are inextricably linked, you are incorrect. That is VERY shady. They are linked. And since you don't like it, you will certainly vote no for that very reason. As stated above, if it starts, keep it out of your .newsrc. Since you don't like PRIMOS there is no point in arguing. You'll never be convinced that most of your statments about them are incorrect, or correct becuase of some form of negligence and spite. > Why don't you try FIRST to get on the distribution list, if such a critter > exists, instead of starting first with the suggestion that several thousand > sites start carrying a group that's shown basically no need to exist? Man! Another Cardinal Sin! He should have known there is a list since he likes the OS so much! I guess its up to you to let us know about everything. I think I'll mail you when I need to know a procedure! Besides, should he have to get on a list!? No. So, first why don't YOU stick to something you know, and stop showing total anti-PRIMOS attitudes. Get it over with. Go ahead and Vote no now, instead of arguing then voting no. That's insane.
dewey@sequoia.UUCP (Dewey Henize) (04/19/89)
(hopefully the previous cancel got out in time to squash my first msg) The following is a LONG response to a response. There was a call for votes posted to this forum and I responded that I didn't think that the call for votes was proper or needed. I added my personal observations, and seemed to have sparked a major flame. Therefore followups to this message are being directed to alt.flame. Should anyone wish to comment on the fairly sparse technical aspects in this, and therefore edit it back to here, please also remove the personality discussions. Thank you. In article <509@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> acarter@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Alfonso Carter) writes: >From: >> article 913 in comp.os.misc: >> from: dewey@sequoia.UUCP (Dewey Henize) > >> Subject: Re: A call for votes! >> Summary: This isn't even close to how you do it... >> Message-ID: <453@sequoia.UUCP> >> Date: 15 Apr 89 14:42:24 GMT >> References: <480@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> >> Reply-To: dewey@sequoia.UUCP (Dewey Henize) >> Distribution: usa >> Organization: Home for Recalcitrant Hackers > > >> First, you haven't shown anything resembling a need for the 'conference' (it's >> called a 'newsgroup' usually). As a matter of fact, you present a wonderful >> case for why it SHOULD NOT be a newsgroup with your own statement about 'a mere >> post or two in comp.os.misc.' The point of newsgroups is to separate out >> specific topics that have regularly shown enough interest to justify their >> own namespace, not just because you would LIKE to see more postings. This >> is especially true in the comp groups. > Opinion [Personal]: So what if he said conference? Cardinal sin to you > I would guess. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ No, not a cardinal sin, and if you read the above you will see there were a total of six words that indicated the correct terminology. As for it being a mistake that I corrected so that proper terminology for the medium we are using, where is the problem? > So what if there have been no posts? Since there is > no newgroup for it, where would one post it? Not in here. You'd > yell and scream about it since you obviously don't like PRIMOS. Interesting you draw that conclusion. I'm (as you put it) 'yelling and screaming' that there isn't sufficient demonstrated interest in the group to call for a vote. As a matter of fact, this is exactly the place to put requests for information about, or requests for information about, PRIMOS or any other operating system that doesn't have it's own group. If there WERE a demonstrated interest such that reading comp.os.misc caused one to encounter a whole lot of posts regarding PRIMOS, then you would, apparently to your great surprise, find that I would be among those supporting separation and a private namespace for it. > With people who treat newgroups like the bible, you'd get mad becuase > the posted about PRIMOS, in comp.os.misc, and say it belonged in > comp.os.primos if there was one, since there isn't you would say > such articles shouldn't be posted. You have no basis for this statement from my previous posts. Or could you so point out the basis to me? > >> You seem to be making the case that PRIMOS should have its own place to get >> posts based on your perception that its an important operating system, and >> not based at all on any indication of activity ON USENET regarding it. This >> is backwards, if there is expressed need shown by number of postings in a >> subject, THEN is when you try to get a newsgroup - you don't try to get a >> newsgroup (especially a comp newsgroup) for something no one shows any real >> interest it. > > Give us all a break. If there is reason for a newsgroup, there should ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > be one. ^^^^^^ This happens to be my point exactly. The usenet has developed the common understanding that the driving force for a newsgroup is that there is traffic to warrant it. When there is, a simple discussion and vote basically gets it created. If there is a very active mailing list, its not uncommon for the moderator of the mailing list to note this, issue a call for discussion in the mailing group and news.groups and see if there is support sufficient to the many people who take the time to be involved to ask for a vote. If there is, the vote is taken. The vast majority of the news admins around then honor a newgroup message and pass things on. > If you don't want it, keep it out of your .newsrc and don't > carry the group on your computer. Just because there isn't activity YET > in your eyes on the USENET does NOT mean that on the regular BBS side > there isn't. I'm not sure what you are really saying here. If there is some 'regular BBS side' (not a putdown, I don't know your reference) then that's a great reason for a 'regular BBS side' discussion group. If there develops activity on usenet, then there's a reason for a group on usenet. As I've said above in the original post and this one. As for not carrying it, if the normal paths are taken to create it and it passes, then I'd have no real reason not to. I carry a lot of groups I don't read and that no one at my sites reads. I feel that if its a regular group, I owe it to the downstream and lateral connects to let them make that choice. > >> Second, you don't start collecting votes out of the blue. Although there are >> always minor variances, the procedure is basically to first call for discussion >> by posting to groups where there has appeared to be an interested group and >> to redirect followups and further discussion to news.groups. Granted, when >> you start out with no groups that show a significant amount of interest it's >> gonna be hard, but that should show something in itself :-). After a minimum >> discussion of two weeks in news.groups, a call for votes is appropriate, with >> the votes for and against being collected by someone at a reasonably well >> connected site. Currently it takes a count of 100 MORE yes votes than no votes >> for a group. > > Ok. Please outline the procedure so you won't go pointing out technicali- > ties in the future. I did outline it here. And pointed out that there is a group specifically for discussion of proposals for new groups. It's called news.groups. The current periodic list of news groups shows this as: news.groups Discussions and lists of newsgroups. Also, it would be a good idea to read: news.announce.newusers Explanatory postings for new users. (Moderated) which periodically posts a list of all the normal groups and their intended use. By the way, regarding your statement that I would scream about you posting about PRIMOS here (as opposed to your posting about a newsgroup, not the operating system itself), the entry for here is: comp.os.misc General OS-oriented discussion not carried elsewhere. Ok? > Post it in here [comp.os.misc] so we ALL can see it. > I have not seen any rules about creating a newsgroup for sometime [if there > was one, you'll have to excuse me for not reading EVERY article in EVERY > newsgroup]. No one I've heard of reads all groups. I and you should read the groups that are appropriate to what we are posting and/or responding to. news.groups is the group to get the info from, as has been noted. > >> Personal Opinion: PRIMOS is of, at best, peripheral interest to the vast >> majority of net.folks. It only runs on Prime machines, which are not exactly >> the most widely used machines around, and it would seem that that trend is >> increasing. Prime machines themselves are not compatable with much or anything >> else, and often with each other (at the software level). It would seem that >> Prime is fairly aware of this, given their recent diversification into more >> widely accepted areas, like 386 Unix boxes and CADD systems. How much of the >> net community uses PRIMOS though is probably pretty low. > > True, it only runs on Prime Machines. They are pretty compatible at the > software level. Maybe you've written a program for Unix and tried to > compile it on a PRIME? Second, I have seen some very LARGE PrimOS Nets, > Larger than most Unix-Ethernet Linked ones. They are still in BIG use. > Where have you been? GTE Telenet uses them ALOT. So what if they > aren't on the USENET. Does that mean they don't exist or something?? > Maybe this isn't the case. Maybe I've been involved both at the software and hardware level with Primes for several years. No, it doesn't mean that they don't exist. Perhaps you and your friend might consider also that it is very common on usenet to refer to the net community and net.folks as the people that read and use usenet - which is not an exclusive set from those that use lans for Novell or those that run ARCnet or PRIMENET, but in some cases doesn't have a whole lot of overlap. Sorry that my use of a common term in this milieu wasn't understood. >> [prefix above] In the last couple of [suffix below] >> years I don't recall seeing anyone discuss putting anything like rn or notes >> or news on a PRIME running PRIMOS - although with the diversity of folks we >> have, there's bound to be someone that attempted it somewhere out of shear >> perversity. > > You always this tolerant about articles posted about machines that you don't > like? It is like me saying, "Messages Posted about <an OS> are perverted > because I have only seen a very few." Do you always make personal attacks on people that disagree with you? <1/2 :-)> Nowhere in my post did I say not to post about Primos issues, nor that you or anyone else shouldn't - did I? I said that calling for a newsgroup wasn't called for. I said that I had an opinion that Primos issues weren't of interest to much of the net. I didn't make suggestions about your personal abilities, nor will I now. There are some large Primos nets, no question about it. I simply feel that if there isn't a lot of overlap between the users of those LARGE Primos nets and the users of usenet, that usenet is not likely to have a large audience for a group restricted to the topic of Primos. Why do you then make a projected quote quite different from what I posted? I'll try one more time here. There are any number of machines I like and there are some I don't like. I labeled the above part of the message as personal opinion, yours obviously differs. But the original article wasn't just about Prime machines, it was about making an end run around the newgroup procedures by starting a vote without passing out the information reasonable to the groups that are properly targetted. I stated that I believed that with the current number of posts and the rather large differences between PRIMOS and the types of systems most people who use the net use, there was likely to not be enough interest to justify a separate news group dedicated to PRIMOS. > >> We've had several PRIME machines where I work. Right now, one of the things >> I'm really looking forward to is our scheduled deinstall of the last one. >> If it doesn't hang at least once a week we know no one has logged it. Disks >> seem to get clobbered about that often on average too. Trying to teach a >> new user anything like an underlying structure or philosophy of the system >> so that they can use it effectively is a real exercise in frustration. > > Its obvious you don't like PRIMOS, and Congradulations. You're being > very diplomatic about it. Proper Maintenance would solve your problems. > Also, It helps to TRY to work with a computer instead of saying, "It > hangs up too much. I don't like it." and then giving up. That is > really very bad. It is called ignorance. I work with computers/OSs > I don't like, but not against them. BIG difference. You obviously don't know anything about our installation nor our Maintenance. Nor do you know about me and what I do nor how I work. If you wish to make guesses and allegations, please do it in either private e-mail or in alt.flame. Making these kind of unsupported statements doesn't belong here. > >> If you gather from the above I don't think much of PRIME, you're pretty much >> on the right track. <again note, personal opinion, standard disclaimers apply, >> etc.> If you also gather that I don't think there's a real audience for a >> group specifically for PRIMOS on Usenet, you are also correct. However, if >> you think those two opinions are inextricably linked, you are incorrect. > > That is VERY shady. They are linked. And since you don't like it, > you will certainly vote no for that very reason. As stated above, > if it starts, keep it out of your .newsrc. Since you don't like PRIMOS > there is no point in arguing. You'll never be convinced that most of > your statments about them are incorrect, or correct becuase of > some form of negligence and spite. Again with the personal attack and again you happen to be wrong. Why do you assume the two have to be linked? Sigh. > >> Why don't you try FIRST to get on the distribution list, if such a critter >> exists, instead of starting first with the suggestion that several thousand >> sites start carrying a group that's shown basically no need to exist? > > Man! Another Cardinal Sin! He should have known there is a list since > he likes the OS so much! I guess its up to you to let us know about > everything. I think I'll mail you when I need to know a procedure! > Besides, should he have to get on a list!? No. So, first why don't > YOU stick to something you know, and stop showing total > anti-PRIMOS attitudes. Get it over with. Go ahead and Vote no now, > instead of arguing then voting no. That's insane. > Where do you get this? 'Cardinal Sin'? I said no such thing, as your quote shows. I do happen to know more about about how groups normally come to be on usenet than you. Not as much as some, I freely admit. Nor do I pretend to be a knowitall. Is there no possible range between the two? The original posting (from violence@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Violence)) said: >I understand that there is a PRIMOS distribution list. Has anyone any info >regarding this? Thank you. So I guess he did know there was one. My suggestion was: >> Why don't you try FIRST to get on the distribution list, if such a critter >> exists, instead of starting first with the suggestion that several thousand >> sites start carrying a group that's shown basically no need to exist? which was just that, a suggestion. Why is that so horrible ? A mailing list is a distribution that allows those interested in a topic to correspond and share information, not a ghetto. There are a lot of them, they correspond to topics where either the participants don't wish to have everyone and their cousins involved, or they correspond to intest groups that haven't shown a large number of interested participants such that a newsgroup just for that topic is neccessitated. As stated above, when such a group gets large (by the number of postings or the number of participants or both) then they SOMETIMES go ahead and get a newsgroup started to cut down the overhead. It seems that you have read my post, noted that I don't like Prime or PRIMOS, and then went back and re-interpreted everything you could based on that. I also seem to have come out as an ignorant incompetent because I don't like what you like and said so. You have the right to interpret everything I say in this manner if you wish, but if you want to attack me instead of what I say, please - use e-mail or alt.flame. It's not appropriate here. If you wish to discuss Primos here, do so. I'm not giving permission, that's what this group is for. If you wish to discuss me, my work habits, my 'incompetence' or similiar personal issues, this is not the group. I stated specific things that I have encountered in Primos. Having administered several of them for several years, I feel that I have a bit of knowledge in the area. Perhaps you have more, fine. Bring up those issues for discussion. Talk about what it is that will keep a system from hanging, or what caused it and how to avoid it. Discuss what to do in the way of maintanence that exceeds what Prime recommends and provides. Are there good tricks and techniques that make working with the SAD easier and more efficient? Do you know good ways to handle the problem of serial lines choking and hanging, requiring a reboot to clear, when a port selector gets power cycled a couple times and leaves garbage in the buffers? Is there a way to get full use out of 600 (actually 674)Mb cdc drives? Heck, is there a way to recover info from a partition when it gets a bad spot in the badspot file? All these are great topics, and since I'm so horribly stupid and ignorant in your estimation I'm sure you have a whole lot of other more interesting things to discuss and garner information about. That's fine, and you can hold your estimation of me any way you want. I won't live or die by your estimation, nor are you likely to live or die by mine. But take personal attacks where they belong and I'll do the same should I wish to respond in kind. The folks reading comp.os.misc would probably prefer to read about operating systems in here, rather than about me or you. If there's a need for a primos-specific newsgroup, show the need. If there's not a need on usenet but there is somewhere else that's not a reason to have one on usenet. If the need exists here, get some real pleasure and show me wrong by getting the newsgroup voted on and approved and you can have the deep satisfaction of knowing that it will be running though my machine, ok? Just do what everyone else is asked to do, show a need within this milieu by the normal standards of this milieu. Nothing more. Followups are directed to alt.flame. If you wish to redirect this to comp.os.misc, please edit out all the personality issues out of common courtesy. I will not respond further to personal attacks in this forum. (as I probably shouldn't have responded to this one. Double sigh) Dewey Henize -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | There is nothing in the above message that can't be explained by sunspots. | | execu!dewey Dewey Henize | | Can you say standard disclaimer? I knew you could. Somehow... | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | There is nothing in the above message that can't be explained by sunspots. | | execu!dewey Dewey Henize | | Can you say standard disclaimer? I knew you could. Somehow... | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) (04/21/89)
In article <522@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US> scythian@jolnet.ORPK.IL.US (Jeff ) writes: > I like the idea of a primos newsgroup ... In comp.os.* we have eunice cpm minix misc vms os9 xinu research In comp.sys.* we have amiga apollo apple atari att cbm celerity dec encore hp ibm/pc intel m6809 m68k mac masscomp misc next nsc proteon pyramid ridge sequent sgi sun tahoe tandy ti xerox transputer zenith In comp.sources.* we have amiga atari bugs d games mac misc unix wanted x I think it is clear from this that the net is not a UNIX/workstation club. Why these topics only? Because those are the ones that had TRAFFIC. The rule is *first* >>demonstrate<< that a lot of people are interested (don't just assert it, demonstrate it) by posting messages about the topic in a related group. For PR1MOS or PR1MIX the appropriate group is comp.os.misc. When you have enough traffic, other people will be only too pleased to see you get your own newsgroup. >I know I would not post a question about something >I cannot figure out in the comp.os.misc section either Why not? With the current set of newsgroups that's the right place to do it. >1) Because some people (no names being mentioned here) would tell me how > crummy primes are (this is NOT my opinion at all). Come off it. A newsgroup of your own is no protection either. For all I know, the "my computer is better than yours" war is still raging between comp.sys.atari.st and comp.sys.amiga. (BTW, back when I was using a P400, the spelling was "PR1ME". Is it so yet?) >3) So far I've only seen a few people respond to the vote call, so that tells > you how many people have comp.os.misc in their .newsrc file. No it doesn't. It tells you how many of the people who responded have not had their responses lost before they reached you, that's all. I read comp.os.misc and hadn't responded yet. >4) Anyway there are 10-20 Unix newsgroups, is 1 too much to ask for when >dealing with a larger size computer?? The size, price, quality, colour, race, creed, or sex of the computer have nothing to do with it. What counts is the degree to which people are talking about the topic on the net (not the degree to which they are talking about talking about the topic). Amdahl mainframes, running UTS/580, are Unix machines, and they are bigger than anything PR1ME have ever made. > Come on now, theres even a newsgroup for protien (bionet.molbio.protiens) >and even a alt.sex.bondage! Yes, because people got enough traffic on it. The rules are different for alt.* groups, by the way. Many sites do not carry or forward any alt.* groups. If there was enough traffic, people on the net would cheerfully agree to bionet.molbio.protein.cytochromes.murine. Let's face it, some people _have_ to use PR1MEs. Those people are going to have problems; everyone has problems with their machines and operating systems. (comp.sys.sun has _lots_ of traffic, and those machines are _wonderful_.) People with PR1MOS problems and access to the net are as much entitled to ask for help as anyone else. Until there has been enough traffic to justify a newsgroup for that topic, comp.os.misc is the right place to do it, and anyone who flames you is so bad-mannered that you should pay no attention. And if you have source code that you would like to make available to other PR1ME users, or if you want to ask whether someone has a program to do something on a PR1ME system, comp.sources.{wanted,misc,...} are for you just as much as for anyone else. If your local PR1ME representative knows his, her, or its job, he, she, or it should be able to put you in touch with the PR1ME Users Group and they in turn should be able to tell you about any PR1ME-related BBS that wants to be known about.
adams@mfci.UUCP (Steve Adams) (04/23/89)
In article <1031@quintus.UUCP> ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes: >(BTW, back when I was using a P400, the spelling was "PR1ME". Is it so yet?) Nope. They spent about $500,00 to get a "new up to date logo", and now it is a stylized : 1Prime Where the letters are slightly slanted, and the 1 is in sillowhette. (or however the heck you spell that word...NO FLAMES, I KNOW IT'S WRONG!) >If your local PR1ME representative knows his, her, or its job, he, she, or >it should be able to put you in touch with the PR1ME Users Group and they >in turn should be able to tell you about any PR1ME-related BBS that wants >to be known about. Right! Call NPUG (National Prime User's Group) or your local Prime User's Group and find out about the "Pulse" Tape (Prime USer Library SErvice). I know that NPUG runs a bulletin board on a Prime in Prime Park, in Natick. Check it out. BUT, keep posting here. I would be happy to discuss Primes, since I woked on them for about 6 years, both for them and as a customer. There is not enough traffic YET for a newsgroup. When there is, we'll get out own group. I agree with you about wanting a newsgroup, but we have to live in the "net.community" and abide by the rules. -Steve...Primos Hacker at Large =============================================================================== Steve Adams All disclaimers apply here..... adams@multiflow.com uunet!mfci!adams AuH20 *IS* the Republican Solution!