7GMADISO%POMONA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.EDU (02/27/87)
To: Robert Lewis Harker
I don't know about the machine you asked about, but I'm going to
stick my nose in and say that if that machine doesn't work out,
look into a used Tandy Model 4. It will indeed run CP/M, and a
very nice version at that (Montezeuma Micro). In addition, under
its proprietary DOS (LS-DOS 6.3), it runs **THE** best Z-80
assembler I've ever seen, called Pro-MRAS, from a company called
Misosys. For an 'obsolete' machine, the amount of support the
Model 4 has has to be seen to be believed!!
George Madison
kevinb@crash.UUCP (03/02/87)
In article <4720@brl-adm.ARPA> 7GMADISO%POMONA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.EDU writes: > >To: Robert Lewis Harker >I don't know about the machine you asked about, but I'm going to >stick my nose in and say that if that machine doesn't work out, >look into a used Tandy Model 4. It will indeed run CP/M, and a >very nice version at that (Montezeuma Micro). In addition, under >its proprietary DOS (LS-DOS 6.3), it runs **THE** best Z-80 >assembler I've ever seen, called Pro-MRAS, from a company called >Misosys. For an 'obsolete' machine, the amount of support the >Model 4 has has to be seen to be believed!! I woudn't suggest a Tandy Model 4 for programming usage. It has the wierdest memory banking system I've ever seen, the source code for the BIOS is quite difficult to get, and the hard disk subsystem is unusually expensive. It also comes with 2 single-sided 5-1/4" floppies, where I recommend at least DSDD floppies for programming work (.PRN files and macro libraries can get quite large). There's only one serial port available for it, and no real applications notes. I would rather suggest ther Kaypro model 4 (floppy) or 10 (hard) systems. For my use I use a S-100 machine. Disadvantages: Pre-made software is not easy to find, and it's BIG. Advantages: most of them came with source for the opsys, and in my case I'm running both 8"DSDD floppies (*reliable* storage at 1196K) and a 5-1/4 floppy, with a 240K ramdisk made by hooking in a bunch of random manufacturer's memory cards. I can change processors, controllers, and add I/O simply by plugging in (a la STD), as well as change opsyses from IMDOS (one of the first) to UNIX, etc. The advantage of S-100 over STD is that hardly anything save Z-80/8080/8085 was ever made for the STD, whereas S-100 cards I have seen myself include 8080/8085/8086/8088/80286/80386, Z-80, HD64180, 65xx/68xx/68xxx/32xxx, etc. You also get a feel for the system, because improving your system often means implementing code yourself, thus giving you a 'feel' for your environment. It's been around for quite a while, and looks to keep on into the future, with new cards coming out monthly for all kinds of wierd industrial and commercial applications. -- Kevin J. Belles - UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd, akgua, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!kevinb ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~ - ARPA: crash!kevinb@{nosc, ucsd} - INET: kevinb@crash.CTS.COM - BIX: kevinb --------------------------------------------------------------------------
piner@pur-phy.UUCP (Richard Piner) (03/04/87)
In article <858@crash.CTS.COM> kevinb@crash.CTS.COM (Kevin J. Belles) writes: >In article <4720@brl-adm.ARPA> 7GMADISO%POMONA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.EDU writes: >> >>To: Robert Lewis Harker >>look into a used Tandy Model 4. It will indeed run CP/M, and a >>very nice version at that (Montezeuma Micro). In addition, under >>its proprietary DOS (LS-DOS 6.3), it runs **THE** best Z-80 >>assembler I've ever seen, called Pro-MRAS, from a company called >>Misosys. For an 'obsolete' machine, the amount of support the >>Model 4 has has to be seen to be believed!! > > I woudn't suggest a Tandy Model 4 for programming usage. It has the wierdest >memory banking system I've ever seen, the source code for the BIOS is quite >difficult to get, and the hard disk subsystem is unusually expensive. It also >comes with 2 single-sided 5-1/4" floppies, where I recommend at least DSDD >floppies for programming work (.PRN files and macro libraries can get quite >large). There's only one serial port available for it, and no real applications > ETC. >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, while we are on the subject, there is yet another Z-80 machine around. Namely, the MAX-80 by Lobo. I'm not a big fan, but if you have to have a Z-80 machine, this one is worth checking out. It runs CP/M or LDOS. Outputs are, 5-inch floppy, 8-inch floppy, SASI harddisk, Centronics parallel, 2 RS232 ports (Zilog PIO chip), and composite video. The RS232 ports can be set up to generate interupts, so it can run serial I/O at 19K baud. It has a real keyboard, with ALL the keys and a good feel, for those touch typist. I have a 3.25 inch floppy drive on one of them that holds 750K and the drive only cost $175. The MAX is fairly cheap to expand since the controllers are smart. It doesn't have high-res graphics. It does have programable fonts. For more information, you can contact Lobo Systems, 7334 Hollister Ave., Suite J, Coleta, CA 93117. Phone 805-968-6929. I have a couple of their machines and they run fine. Warranty service has been quick and when they fix a machine, it stays fixed. Usual disclaimers go here. Richard Piner piner@galileo.physics.purdue.edu.UUCP
cculver@wheaton.UUCP (03/05/87)
In article <858@crash.CTS.COM> kevinb@crash.CTS.COM (Kevin J. Belles) writes: >In article <4720@brl-adm.ARPA> 7GMADISO%POMONA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.EDU writes: >>look into a used Tandy Model 4. It will indeed run CP/M, and a >>... For an 'obsolete' machine, the amount of support the >>Model 4 has has to be seen to be believed!! > > I woudn't suggest a Tandy Model 4 for programming usage. It has the >wierdest >memory banking system I've ever seen, the source code for the BIOS is quite >difficult to get,... And several other reasons not to use a Model IV. I run a Model IV with 2 DSDD 5.25" drives, 390k each, as well as 2 DSDD 8" 1.25 meg each (with a Holmes disk controller), for a total of >3 meg online. For those who have the hankering for such things, Montezuma Micro provides a sample BIOS with its documentation (not the actual BIOS, but a stripped-down version). I could also install a 256k ramdisk (but with 1228k disks and access time under 15 ms for a resulting throughput time that would beat the pants off almost any 8088 machine around, who needs it?), and I can run at least 4 different operating systems (TRSDOS, which has an excellent base of Tandy supportware, LDOS, Multidos and CP/M). True, the memory banking is somewhat unusual (and, to be fair, has caused some incompatibility problems with some software--most notably ZCPR3), but is far from the "weirdest". In short, the Model IV can be a very good programming environment. And it *does* have an impressive amount of support. --calvin culver-- ...inhp4!invest!wheaton!cculver Cculver@wheaton.UUCP Anyone can make a computer dance with a meg of internal memory Real programmers do it in 8 bits. (Long live CP/M)
toma@tekgvs.UUCP (03/10/87)
In article <2151@pur-phy.UUCP> piner@pur-phy.UUCP (Richard Piner) writes: > >Well, while we are on the subject, there is yet another Z-80 machine around. >Namely, the MAX-80 by Lobo. I'm not a big fan, but if you have to have a >Z-80 machine, this one is worth checking out. It runs CP/M or LDOS.... Unfortunately, as has beset most companies making CP/M computers, Lobo has gone out of business. I own two of the machines and they have been rock solid. It came with the most complete CP/M Plus implementation of any machine (so says an impartial third party who has seen them all), and was one of the best TRSDOS style machines as well. If you like CP/M and find one of these machines for sale, snap it up. Tom Almy Tektronix
gardner@kodak.UUCP (03/11/87)
In article <2151@pur-phy.UUCP> piner@pur-phy.UUCP (Richard Piner) writes: >In article <858@crash.CTS.COM> kevinb@crash.CTS.COM (Kevin J. Belles) writes: >>In article <4720@brl-adm.ARPA> 7GMADISO%POMONA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.EDU writes: >>> >>>To: Robert Lewis Harker >>>look into a used Tandy Model 4. It will indeed run CP/M, and a >>> deleted comments about Model IV >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Well, while we are on the subject, there is yet another Z-80 machine around. >Namely, the MAX-80 by Lobo. I'm not a big fan, but if you have to have a ^--- I AM a big fan! What a great machine! >Z-80 machine, this one is worth checking out. It runs CP/M or LDOS. ^--- Z-80B @5.0 MHz >Outputs are, 5-inch floppy, 8-inch floppy, SASI harddisk, Centronics >parallel, 2 RS232 ports (Zilog PIO chip), and composite video. The >RS232 ports can be set up to generate interupts, so it can run serial >I/O at 19K baud. It has a real keyboard, with ALL the keys and a good >feel, for those touch typist. I have a 3.25 inch floppy drive on one of them >that holds 750K and the drive only cost $175. The MAX is fairly cheap to >expand since the controllers are smart. It doesn't have high-res graphics. >It does have programable fonts. For more information, you can contact >Lobo Systems, 7334 Hollister Ave., Suite J, Coleta, CA 93117. >Phone 805-968-6929. I have a couple of their machines and they run fine. >Warranty service has been quick and when they fix a machine, it stays fixed. >Usual disclaimers go here. > Richard Piner > piner@galileo.physics.purdue.edu.UUCP Additional information: It runs most Model I/III/IV programs. (Not all because the serial ports are different devices, but many) It also runs a nice version of CP/M 2.2 and the nicest version of CP/M + (also known as CP/M 3.0) that you've ever seen. The source is included, and is heavily commented. It has 128k ram and a battery-backed up real-time clock. Runs LDOS 5.1.x for R.S. programs. Rumor department: Lobo Systems was known to be in financial trouble, and I don't know their present situation. As far as I do know, this is their one and only product, which seems to guarantee a short life these days. Sales department: I have one of these babies for sale. Includes 2 360k floppies, 2 8" Shugart DSDD drives, lots ofsoftware, manuals, etc. First $700 takes it all. You pay shipping. (parting with it because of the usual reasons....my work requires that I have an IBM compatible machine at home) =#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=# Dick Gardner Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, New York 14650 (716) 477-1002 UUCP: seismo!rochester!kodak!gardner To err is human -- to really screw it up you need a computer! =#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#
harris@dg_rtp.UUCP (Mark Harris) (03/17/87)
In article <2151@pur-phy.UUCP> piner@pur-phy.UUCP (Richard Piner) writes: >In article <858@crash.CTS.COM> kevinb@crash.CTS.COM (Kevin J. Belles) writes: >>In article <4720@brl-adm.ARPA> 7GMADISO%POMONA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.EDU writes: > >Well, while we are on the subject, there is yet another Z-80 machine around. >Namely, the MAX-80 by Lobo. I'm not a big fan, but if you have to have a >Z-80 machine, this one is worth checking out. It runs CP/M or LDOS. >Outputs are, 5-inch floppy, 8-inch floppy, SASI harddisk, Centronics >parallel, 2 RS232 ports (Zilog PIO chip), and composite video. The >RS232 ports can be set up to generate interupts, so it can run serial >I/O at 19K baud. It has a real keyboard, with ALL the keys and a good >feel, for those touch typist. I have a 3.25 inch floppy drive on one of them >that holds 750K and the drive only cost $175. The MAX is fairly cheap to >expand since the controllers are smart. It doesn't have high-res graphics. >It does have programable fonts. For more information, you can contact >Lobo Systems, 7334 Hollister Ave., Suite J, Coleta, CA 93117. >Phone 805-968-6929. I have a couple of their machines and they run fine. >Warranty service has been quick and when they fix a machine, it stays fixed. >Usual disclaimers go here. > Richard Piner > piner@galileo.physics.purdue.edu.UUCP I hadn't realized LOBO was still in business. I take it from your letter that they indeed are alive and kicking?