WANCHO@SIMTEL20.ARPA ("Frank J. Wancho") (07/23/87)
There are now at least three sources for "no-slot" clocks, the
cheapest of which is from Radio Shack on sale for $39.95. The problem
is that the software that comes with it is an executable for MSDOS.
There is no source and no technical documentation on how to program it
under some other environment, such as CP/M.
Short of writing Radio Shack directly, does anyone have the
necessary info to make it work under CP/M? *Can* it work under CP/M,
or does it take advantage of some MSDOS peculiarity?
For those unfamiliar with these no-slot clocks (probably
somebody's trademark), it is a clock/calendar chip and a lithium
battery wedged into the cavity of a PROM socket and meant to be
sandwiched between an existing ROM and its socket, or simply plugged
into any empty 28-pin ROM socket you may have available. Seems to
simple to be true...considering that I have a whole S-100 card devoted
to apparently the same function...
--FrankW8SDZ@SIMTEL20.ARPA (Keith Petersen) (07/23/87)
Funny you should ask about no-slot clocks. I just uploaded a program to read and set the no-slot clock. It's in: Filename Type Bytes CRC Directory PD:<CPM.SYSUTL> NO-SLOT.LBR.1 BINARY 15744 58A7H --Keith
gary@percival.UUCP (Gary Wells) (07/24/87)
Carefull on those no slot clocks! They should work ok on any type of system, but not all NSC's are accessed equally. We evaluated a couple of different brands here. Brand A: Waited & monitored all accesses to its memory location, looking for a specific sequence of bytes. When the "attention" sequence was detected, the next set of bytes was intercepted & taken to be set/read commands. This is probably OK, as long as you are POSITIVE that there will be no interrupts during the time you are trying to access the clock (we were positive that there would be) Brand B: Was actually a 2K x 8 RAM. This replaced your existing 2K x 8 device, was accessed and used just like normal RAM, except that the top 16 bytes ALWAYS contained the time/date info. So check your specs sheets BEFORE you buy one of these beasts. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wudda yeah mean, I'm gonna get in trouble? I AM in trouble! ...tektronix!reed!percival!gary
gardner@kodak.UUCP (dick gardner) (07/27/87)
In article <WANCHO.12320568509.BABYL@SIMTEL20.ARPA> WANCHO@SIMTEL20.ARPA ("Frank J. Wancho") writes: > > There are now at least three sources for "no-slot" clocks, the >cheapest of which is from Radio Shack on sale for $39.95. The problem >is that the software that comes with it is an executable for MSDOS. >There is no source and no technical documentation on how to program it >under some other environment, such as CP/M. I'm not familiar with the RS version of this device, but I have used the Dallas Semiconductor (DS1200) with success. I had it working with an 8051 as the CPU, so a Z-80 shouldn't be any trouble. I can supply a listing of my code if that is helpful. Also there was an article in Byte by Steve Ciarcia using the 8052-Basic chip. Contact me via email for further info. =#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=# Dick Gardner -- Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, New York 14650 Phone: (716) 477-1002 UUCP: {allegra,seismo}!rochester!kodak!gardner "Research is what I do when I don't know what I'm doing" (thanks, Wherner) =#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#=#
TReed.ES@XEROX.COM (07/28/87)
Frank: What specific Radio Shack store has the No-slot clock. The two stores in my local area (Corona California [Riverside County]) do not have them. They give me a blank look when I ask about them. Their responce is, "if it's in our catalog we can get it for you, if it's not, we can't". I even suggested they call their head office to ask about them and they came back again with the above responce about the catalog. Where is Radio Shacks head office? Perhaps I could call them myself. What are some other sources? How is that the No-slot clock address does not interfear with a ROM at possibly the same address? --Terry Reed
toma@tekgvs.TEK.COM (Tom Almy) (07/28/87)
In article <870727-152631-1053@Xerox> TReed.ES@XEROX.COM writes: > >What specific Radio Shack store has the No-slot clock. [...] >They give me a blank look when I ask about them. > >Their responce is, "if it's in our catalog we can get it for you, if >it's not, we can't". > It was in the sales flyer before the latest one. Hasn't appeared in the latest catalog yet. My local store (Tualatin Oregon) knew about them, but the don't stock it. Tom Almy toma@tekgvs.tek.com
sorgatz@ttidca.TTI.COM ( Avatar) (07/30/87)
Many of you out there have expressed an interest in the Dallas Semi DS1216e
this chip can be installed under _any_ 24 or 28 pin device. I have written a
driver and utility to work with these modules, and it works with our V7/4.1
since it is written as an 'ioctl' character-special, device-driver. Now,
all I need is my employer's approval to post the code to .sources and y'all
can have a copy for free! It's written in C, it assumes 16bit ints and not
much else. We use the MC68020 almost exclusivly, and the device works fine
beneath the 27512 chip we use for booting. If my boss approves the posting,
I'll do it, otherwise you could mail me your requests for help and I'll try
to help you with this. The module is straightforward ONCE you understand the
screwy bit-serial interface method.
--
-Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY *************************************
Citicorp(+)TTI *----------> panic trap; type = N+1 *
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2973 ***************************
Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun,philabs,randvax,trwrb}!ttidca!ttidcb!sorgatz **adp@moscom.UUCP (Alan Percy) (07/30/87)
Try taking a look at the Ztime-I from Kenmore Computer Tech.
It goes under the Z80 socket and maps into I/O space. Comes
with all the source you could ever need. It has the added
advantage of being supported by lots of application programs
like DateStamper, Presto!....
They can be reached at:
KCT
PO Box 635
Kenmore NY 14217
(716) 877-0617
Neat suff......I love mine!!!!
Alanmlinar@vikram.usc.edu (Mitch Mlinar) (08/09/87)
In article <1027@moscom.UUCP> adp@moscom.UUCP (Alan Percy) writes: >Try taking a look at the Ztime-I from Kenmore Computer Tech. >It goes under the Z80 socket and maps into I/O space. Comes >with all the source you could ever need. It has the added >advantage of being supported by lots of application programs >like DateStamper, Presto!.... > >They can be reached at: > KCT > PO Box 635 > Kenmore NY 14217 > (716) 877-0617 > > >Neat suff......I love mine!!!! >Alan This is the kind of reply that irks me so much that I have to say something: Alan, there is NOTHING wrong with your comment EXCEPT that you should admit that you are the president of KCT which is done as a side business. This net is NOT for free advertising. To soften it a little, I would not have minded the same posting at all if you had just appended: President, KCT (or whatever your title is now) Your "neat stuff ..." comment takes on a different meaning when this is taken into consideration: PR bs. I don't mind "plugs" as long as it is admitted (Jay Sage did not hide the fact he is behind the new ZCPR stuff and wants to make money from it); honesty is the best policy. To the net - about the Kenmore Tech Clock: It is a very good clock, but also the most expensive one on the market at $100 assembled. It takes 16 continuous I/O ports and mine required calibration using capacitors since it lost 3 minutes a week. The board is 3x3 (or around there in size) and stands 5/8 in high, so make sure you have room for it. My clock is still running (on its second battery); I also have a no-slot running (in another machine) which is easier to install and cheaper, although to be fair, the driver support in the KCT stuff was very good compared to the no-slot lack of info.
JCrow@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA (Jerry Crow) (08/25/87)
RE: ZTIME-1 Clock
My impression was that the term "no slot" clocks was used primarily to
refer to clocks for the IBM PC and compatibles; the ZTIME-1 and friends are
for Z-80 machines. Still, if the "no slot" clocks use ROM/RAM sockets as
an installation/interface mechanism, they could be used on CP/M machines.
I have installed and used both the ZTIME-1 and the Advent clock. These two
clocks are, to the best of my knowledge, the most popular clocks available
for CP/M machines. The Legacy clock also enjoys a following; I am not
familiar with it.
Observations
Disclaimers: impressions noted below are based upon events which occurred
two years ago; the products may have changed since then. I have no
connection whatsoever with either of the companies mentioned.
Hardware
Both the ZTIME-1 and the Advent use the National Semiconductor MM58167A
real time clock chip. This is the same clock that is in the AT and most AT
clones. It is an excellent, general purpose clock chip.
Both clock products are supplied as a piggyback for the Z-80 CPU chip;
i.e., to install the clock boards one removes the Z-80 chip, installs the
Z-80 in a socket on the clock board, and then installs the clock board
itself into the Z-80 socket. Both boards feature battery backup, of
course. The 58167 is very parsimonious WRT power consumption. There is a
pin on the chip which, when it goes low (e.g., when power is removed from
the board), puts the chip into a "power off" mode in which all chip
functions save those required for register maintenance and update are
halted. The spec sheet claims the power consumption in this mode is in the
microwatt range.
The ZTIME-1 board is not as fancy or "professional" looking as the Advent
board (the latter has silk screened legends, machine generated traces,
etc.; it just looks like a high quality board), but it functions well. I
installed the ZTIME-1 in a Morrow MD3. Other than a tight physical fit
(the CPU was near the rear of the cabinet and I had to trim one corner of
the ZTIME-1 board to get it to fit) I encountered no problems with the
board. I had to replace the Z-80 because it was soldered in (no socket),
but that's another story; see below. The ZTIME-1 worked the first time I
tested it. I used it with the DateStamper (DS) software from Plu-Perfect
Systems. As noted in an earlier message, the DS package contains a driver
for this clock. I did, however, have to cut a trace and jumper another to
change the I/O address base for the clock because of the I/O map within the
Morrow. More on this below.
I installed the Advent clock in my Kaypro 10. It, too, went in easily and
worked the first time. No physical space problems here. No jumpers either
because of the manner in which the clock is addressed. More on this below.
I migrated the DateStamper software to my Kaypro when I abandoned the
Morrow; the DS package contains a driver for this clock too.
Things to think about:
First, check your system motherboard to see if your CPU chip is socketed.
Most are, but if it isn't you'll have to install a socket to effect
installation of either of these clock boards. Not overly difficult, but
tedious. And, you'll need to get another Z-80 chip. (Believe me, you
don't want to try to remove the one that's solder mounted in the hope of
salvaging it -- cut the pins, throw the chip away, and carefully remove the
leads with a desoldering tool. Install a socket on the motherboard; get
another Z-80 and install it on the clock board. Some may debate this
advice, but in my opinion the price of a Z-80 isn't high enough to justify
attempted removal and reuse of a soldered chip.)
Next, think about I/O port mapping, particularly if you are looking at the
ZTIME-1. The 58167 is designed with address line input to control access
to its internal registers. This design eliminates the need for a "control"
register which, on some chips, is used to select an internal register for
read/write. For example, the 6845 CRT controller has 30+ internal
registers. To access these, one must first write (OUT) a numerical value
into an address register to select one of the other registers, then execute
the IN/OUT command to read/write the desired register. The 58167 design
eliminates the need for this extra level of indirection. The ZTIME-1 and
the Advent, however, have very different mechanisms for interfacing with
these clock chip address lines.
The ZTIME-1 uses its glue chips to map the address lines on the clock chip
directly into the Z-80 I/O port address space. This presents a fairly
straightforward interface to the programmer -- one I/O port for each clock
chip register -- but it requires *32* I/O ports. True, that's only 12% of
the available space, but the kicker is that the ports must be *contiguous*.
The ZTIME-1, thus, requires a port base within your system that allows for
32 contiguous open port addresses. As shipped, the board defaults to
E0-FF. This conflicted with the Morrow port address space (even though
Kenmore's documentation claimed the default configuration would work on an
MD3; maybe they were lucky when they tested it), and I had to modify the
board to change the port base. The change required solder and trace
cutting; no dip switches here. Don't misunderstand -- the board is
designed to be altered in this way and the documentation is clear, but such
alteration does require trace cutting and soldering. I changed the base to
A0.
The Advent board is somewhat more sophisticated. It is designed primarily
for Kaypros, though it should work in any Z-80 machine which doesn't
utilize the port address space to which the board is sensitive (80H to
90H). (Advent may offer a generic, non-Kaypro specific version of this
board; I don't know.) The interface on this board is based upon the
operation of the I/O instructions in the Z-80. The "standard", 8080 like,
direct I/O instruction of the Z-80 (IN/OUT <port address>) functions like
its counterpart in the 8080; the port address is placed on the low order
address lines and the contents of the A register is placed on the data
lines and the high order address lines. The Z-80, however, is capable of
indirect I/O instructions which do not exist in the 8080. These indirect
instructions permit IN/OUT instructions to move data from registers other
than the A and permit register based selection of an I/O port address.
When an indirect I/O instruction is executed, the contents of the *B
register* (as opposed to the A) is placed on the high order address lines.
The Advent board utilizes this fact to map the clock chip into a single I/O
port. The lower 5 high order address lines from the Z-80 (A8-A12) are
mapped to the 5 address lines on the clock chip. Thus, the content of the
B register is used to select a clock register. Somewhat more complex from
a programming standpoint, but very conserving of I/O port space. There is,
however, no provision for altering the single port address (90H) which is
used to control the clock. By design, neither this address nor the others
to which the board reacts (80H-90H) conflict with Kaypro architecture. If
this board is being considered for a Z-80 machine other than a Kaypro,
however, the port map situation would have to be investigated.
Software
Both boards come with a disk of support software, including a program to
set/read the clock and various examples of clock interface programs. The
Kenmore package includes clock interface software for MS BASIC 80, generic
C and Turbo Pascal. The Advent package includes all of the above plus a
dBase II routine.
The Advent software is more sophisticated than the Kenmore, but all the
software functioned adequately. I have been using the dBase II routine as
part of my dBase startup file to set the date() variable within dBase from
the clock. This is very handy, as any reader who has used dBase II
extensively will appreciate.
Miscellaneous
One interesting vagary of this chip: the chip does not have a year
register. So, once a year, you will have to manually update the content of
one of latch registers to reflect the change of year. The DateStamper
software uses the hundredths/tenths of second latch to hold the year. This
alteration takes about 30 seconds with DDT.
Summary
Either of these clock boards will provide a useful and convenient real time
clock capability for your Z-80 CP/M machine. The Advent is somewhat
flashier and the support software is a bit more sophisticated; its price is
also, predictably, higher. The Kenmore is more economical, particularly if
it is purchased in kit form (I did not buy the kit).
I no longer have the Morrow, but still use the Kaypro occasionally. My
primary machine is now an AT clone. I strongly recommend the installation
of a real time clock in your machine if you don't have one; they are very
useful and convenient.
The last magazine advertisements I saw had both of these clock products
priced under $100. Haven't seen a Kenmore ad lately, but Advent is in
nearly every issue of Micro Cornucopia and Profiles.
Enjoy your real time clock. Once you use a system which has one, you'll
wonder how you ever got along without it.
-- Jerry Crowadp@moscom.UUCP (Alan Percy) (08/27/87)
If any of you ZTIME-I or other clock owners are interested, I could
post the collection of public domain software from our Application
Users Disk. Because many of the clocks use the MM58167, it should
be useful for others.
I will have to somehow get it all packaged together.
All of it includes source code, but is that what all you folks
want? I don't have 'arc' for my CP/M machine, so if you folks
would like the binaries 'arced', someone would have to send me
a uuencoded arc (not 'arced' please). Then, where should I post it?
Additionally, if you people have some software that never made it
to the A.U.G. Disk, send it to me soon and I will include it.
Please follow the instructions in the ZTIME-I manual for AUG
submissions, or mail them to me here (see signature).
Lastly, we are still here...but at a new address and phone number.
(My office manager and I had a parting of ways)
KCT
30 Suncrest Dr.
Rochester, NY 14609
(716) 654-7356 Evenings
It seems that the Computer Journal has taken summer vacation????
That's where we have been advertising lately. Much cheaper, thus
we can pass the savings along to you.... You should see what
MicroCornucopia and Computer Shopper did to their ad rates......WOW!
I would get a nose bleed when the bills came in!!!
Anyway I guess I'll be reading this news group and checking my mail
for feedback on the clock software.
-----------> Owner of Kenmore Computer Technologies <------------
Alan Percy..........................{rutgers,ames,cmcl2}!rochester!moscom!adp
--
Alan Percy..........................{rutgers,ames,cmcl2}!rochester!moscom!adp
If you think I'll ever admit to anything, you're crazier than I am!!!!