mknox@NGP.UTEXAS.EDU (Margaret H. Knox) (09/06/87)
Ken asks about S100 68000 cards. The normal recommendation is the Compupro CP68K card. It works with all the other Compupro boards, but it is also compatible with standard S100 stuff from anyone else. The board does (or did) come with CP/M-68K. If it doesn't, you can get CP/M-68K from TriSoft (generic version), or already customised from Gifford (if they still market it). It should not be hard to port most any other system to the board. I have seen the Compupro board for under $200. Check with the ads in the latest issues of Dr Dobbs and Micro/System Journal.
bill@ssbn.UUCP (Bill Kennedy) (09/07/87)
In article <8709060045.AA05306@ngp.utexas.edu> mknox@NGP.UTEXAS.EDU (Margaret H. Knox) writes: >>Ken asks about S100 68000 cards. > >The normal recommendation is the Compupro CP68K card. It works with >all the other Compupro boards, but it is also compatible with standard >S100 stuff from anyone else. The board does (or did) come with >CP/M-68K. If it doesn't, you can get CP/M-68K from TriSoft (generic >version), or already customised from Gifford (if they still market >it). It should not be hard to port most any other system to the >board. Micro/Systems Journal is, indeed, a good place to look. I bought a self contained 68008 coprocessor from Peak Electronics in San Jose for around $900 which included CP/M-68K, the BIOS and monitor sources (Aztec C), 512K RAM, two serial ports and a couple of timers. The board has bus rights on the S-100 bus so it can use existing peripherals. Another interesting feature about the Peak board is how they implemented CP/M-68K. They presume that you are running CP/M-80 or CP/M-86 and they provide a 68K boot program for each. There's a small interface program that lets the 68K use the existing BIOS for all of its physical I/O so the setup is effortless. When you are through with the 68K you just execute the RETURN program and you are back where you came from. This is particularly useful if you have your favorite editors, etc. whereas CP/M-68K only comes with ED. You can get a Godbout board a lot cheaper but you'll have a lot more work to get it going. It's a full up 68000 so you don't have the 1Mb limit of the 68008 but it's not a coprocessor so you will have to interface all of your peripherals again. The DRI assembler and C compiler are adequate (their C is bulky and slow) but I shudder to think of using them to do a BIOS from scratch. -- Bill Kennedy {cbosgd | ihnp4!petro | sun!texsun!rrm}!ssbn!bill
kenw@noah.arc.CDN (Ken Wallewein) (09/08/87)
>The normal recommendation is the Compupro CP68K card. It works with >all the other Compupro boards, but it is also compatible with standard >S100 stuff from anyone else. The board does (or did) come with >CP/M-68K. If it doesn't, you can get CP/M-68K from TriSoft (generic >version), or already customised from Gifford (if they still market >it). It should not be hard to port most any other system to the Thanks, Margaret. I'm replying to the net because it seems to me that I miss a lot due to people sending direct all the time. It's not as if this list is overly busy. One thing I'm curious about: I talked to a Cromemco guy once who said that their 68000 boards are not really compatible with IEE-696. Would you have any idea if that's true, and whether much is required for mods? I think he said they require 16-bit memory access. It seems to me IEE-696 says it's optional. All my boards are 8-bit only. Doesn't sound like a minor difference to me :-). BTW, I never did hear anything positive regarding LIFE or or the newer ADVENTURE. /kenw
kenw@noah.arc.CDN (Ken Wallewein) (09/10/87)
>Micro/Systems Journal is, indeed, a good place to look. I bought a self >contained 68008 coprocessor from Peak Electronics in San Jose for around >$900 which included CP/M-68K, the BIOS and monitor sources (Aztec C), >512K RAM, two serial ports and a couple of timers. The board has bus >rights on the S-100 bus so it can use existing peripherals. Interesting. I jut started getting MSJ. I'll check it out. But what does "bus rights" mean? Is there an interface? An S100 slot? And I'm beginning to wonder what's so special about CP/M-68K. As far as I can see, it's not compatible with all my CP/M-80 stuff... what do you use it for? /kenw
HELLER@cs.umass.EDU (Stride 440 User) (09/10/87)
> From: Ken Wallewein <kenw%noah.arc.cdn%ubc.csnet%RELAY.CS.NET@simtel20.arpa> > And I'm beginning to wonder what's so special about CP/M-68K. As far > as I can see, it's not compatible with all my CP/M-80 stuff... what do > you use it for? CP/M-68K is just another O/S. It *IS* somewhat compatable with CP/M 2.2 in that the file system is the same and O/S (i.e. BDOS/BIOS) are compatable (same function codes, simular data-structures - an FCB is an FCB). True, at the assembly language level things are not compatable, nor are executable files, that is .COM files from CP/M 2.2 won't run under CP/M-68K, nor will .68K files run under CP/M 2.2, however, if you have a dual CPU system, it makes sense. This not really new: there are a varity of CP/M-80/86 system around (CompuPro/Viasan makes one, the old DEC Rainbow 100 is another). On a related issue: Mince does exist for CP/M-68K. Mark Of The Unicorn may not admit its existance (just like DRI may not admit the existance of CP/M-68K, or even the existance of the 68000 :_)). I have Mince for CP/M-68K (really). I also have a PD 8080 (CP/M 2.2) emulator for CP/M-68K. It is not super fast (runs 8080 programs at about a 2Mhz equivelant clock speed on a 10Mhz 68000), but works. I use it mostly for an UNARC program (nope, there is not ARC for CP/M-68K). If you are interested in CP/M-68K software, I have written/adapted quite a pile of it. Including a LU program, extended directory program, extensions to Mince, FidoNet, a BBS program (adapted from UNaXcess), XModem, Kermit, (both XModem and Kermit are Stride 400 series dependent, but can be hacked for your serial ports), and much else. Some of it is on Simtel20, GEnie, BIX, a little on CompuServe, and most is available for downloading on my BBS (Locks Hill BBS, FidoNet 321/148, 617-544-6933, 7:30PM to 8:00AM Eastern time, 300/1200 BAUD). Robert Heller ARPANet: Heller@CS.UMass.EDU BITNET: Heller@UMass.BITNET BIX: Heller GEnie: RHeller FidoNet: 321/148 (Locks Hill BBS, Wendell, MA) CompuServe 71450,3432 Local PV VAXen: COINS::HELLER UCC Cyber/DG: Heller@CS
ian@sq.UUCP (09/10/87)
Ken Wallewein (kenw@noah.arc.CDN) writes: > One thing I'm curious about: I talked to a Cromemco guy once who said that > their 68000 boards are not really compatible with IEE-696. Would you have any > idea if that's true, and whether much is required for mods? I think he said > they require 16-bit memory access. It seems to me IEE-696 says it's optional. > All my boards are 8-bit only. Doesn't sound like a minor difference > to me :-). It is perfectly reasonable for a CPU card to require 16-bit memory. There is a range of valid combinations in most IEEE (count the E's) bus architectures, including 696 (S100), 797 (Multibus), etc. They have specifications for it, I forget the details but it's something like M16, A24 (meaning you do 16-bit memory accesses, and support 24-bit addressing). The DUAL Systems' 68000 board (which I have used since 1984 and am still happy with despite the fact that it's not a 68020 :-) ) also requires 16-bit memories. If you want reasonable performance that is one end of a price/performance tradeoff; if you want compatibility back through all the ages (or at least to 1975), that is quite another. CompuPro, having sold a LOT of 8-bit memory boards, presumably felt that compatibility was more important. As far as "mods", if you mean modifying your 8-bit memory boards to work in 16-bit mode, I hope you aren't serious. When you can buy a megabyte of 16-bit ram for $500? How much is your time worth? At a dollar an hour, you're probably still better off going for a new board. See the ads in Micro/Systems Journal or Computer Shopper.
bill@ssbn.UUCP (09/11/87)
In article <KPETERSEN.12333367530.BABYL@SIMTEL20.ARPA> kenw@noah.arc.CDN (Ken Wallewein) writes: [abbreviating my reply] >>contained 68008 coprocessor from Peak Electronics in San Jose for around > Interesting. I jut started getting MSJ. I'll check it out. But what >does "bus rights" mean? Is there an interface? An S100 slot? Bus rights means that the 68008 has access to everything on the bus, memory and I/O. The S-100 memory is accessed in pages that are set up with a parallel port that is private to the 68K. Also note that the 68008 had an 8 bit data bus and can only address 1Mb of memory. That limitation was not made by the board designer it's in the chip. The Godbout/CompuPro/Viasyn board is a real 68000, the aircraft carrier style chip, the 68008 is in a 48 pin(?) DIP. The CompuPro doesn't have any on-board memory or peripherals so it's pretty hard to turn it on and off. > And I'm beginning to wonder what's so special about CP/M-68K. As far >as I can see, it's not compatible with all my CP/M-80 stuff... what do >you use it for? Au contraire, the way the CP/M-68K BIOS is written you start it from CP/M-80 and it uses your CP/M-80 files (same goes for CP/M-86 and CP/M-816, the way I use it) and BIOS. That means that you are in the air in the time it takes to type "CPM68K". More importantly you can use all of your favorite stuff (like an editor!) to compose stuff for CP/M-68K and then fire up the 68K to run the C compiler and utilities. I use it for "cross development", the quotes mean that the target machine isn't emulated, it's really there. I have a dual processor (8085/8088) that runs CP/M-816 (80 and 86 transparently) and when I need to run something for the 68K, I use the Peak board. There are a number of applications, print buffer, comm front end... It's kind of an expensive print buffer, but I got it because it was the least expensive way I could tiptoe into the 68K world keeping my investment in S-100 assets and development tools. -- Bill Kennedy {cbosgd | ihnp4!petro | sun!texsun!rrm}!ssbn!bill