RALPH@UHHEPG.BITNET (06/13/89)
Date: 12-JUN-1989 14:25:58.83
From: Ralph Becker-Szendy RALPH AT UHHEPG
To: GATEWAY::"Info-CPM@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil"
Subj: What are recommended programming editors for cp/m
Hi everyone
In case you are curious why I asked for the whereabouts of Tim Brengle a
few days ago: Because was hoping to get his ADL (Adventure Definition
Language) one of these days.
Now a "loaded" question, which will probably start another "what is your
favourite ..." war:
WHAT IS YOUR FAVOURITE PROGRAMMING EDITOR UNDER CP/M ?
A few remarks. I am specifically looking for a programming editor, not a
word processor. I know the following:
- WordStar V3.3, in use every day, but it is slow and stupid,
- WordStar V4, I heard a lot about it and should finally get it, but it
is probably hardly better than V3.3 when it comes to
programming.
- Express V1 (available from SIMTEL) Very powerfull, extremely
configurable. But: Limited to files which fit in memory, a lot
of the good features are missing. According to the documentation
V2 (which supposedly has all the good stuff in it) should be
available from TCI, 17733 205th Avenue, Woodinville, WA 98072;
but that place doesn't seem to exist any longer (no phone
number). Does anyone know what happened to them ? I would get
Express V2 immediately !
- VEDIT Plus, supposedly avaliable from CompuView, 1955 Pauline BLvd,
Ann Arbor, MI 48103, (313)996-1299. Supposedly supports
multi-window and files of any size. I only have a sales flier
for their Mess-Dos version. Is the cp/m version still available?
Is it any good ?
- ME, which comes with the FTL Modula 2 compiler. Supports multi-window
editing, but is limited to editing in memory. Many features
usefull for general editing are missing, and it is awfully slow.
In particular, I would love to have a multi-window (at least two)
editor, it makes life so much easier. Editing in memory is hardly
acceptable. Also, it should be adaptable to ANSI (or DEC) terminals
(which have some awfull escape sequences). In particular, it should (if
possible) make use of the "restricted scroll area" feature of ANSI
terminals when windowing (since windowing with delete line / insert line
escape sequences is just too slow).
By the way ... I guess for word-processing WS V4 is unbeatable. How does
WRITE (supposedly available from Workman & Associates) compare to WS V4?
Go ahead ... flame each other about your favourite editor ... make my
day! I will just sit here, listen to all of it, and make up my mind (or
not).
Ralph Becker-Szendy RALPH@UHHEPG.PHYS.HAWAII.EDU
University of Hawaii / High Energy Physics Group RALPH@UHHEPG.BITNET
Watanabe Hall #203, 2505 Correa Road, Honolulu, HI 96822 (808)948-7391h3x2@tank.uchicago.edu (andrew abrams shapiro) (06/14/89)
In article <8906140701.AA06420@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> RALPH@UHHEPG.BITNET writes: >Date: 12-JUN-1989 14:25:58.83 >From: Ralph Becker-Szendy RALPH AT UHHEPG >To: GATEWAY::"Info-CPM@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil" >Subj: What are recommended programming editors for cp/m What you want is Perfect Writer 1.20 -- just the editor, not the rest! PW is an EMACS clone that uses a swap file so that it can edit files as large as 256K. Handles 2 windows and 7 buffers at once, very nice. The CP/M version was shipped with most Kaypro and Actrix computers -- you should be able to get it that way. And the installation program will adapt it to most any terminal.
jurjen@cwi.nl (Jurjen N.E. Bos) (06/15/89)
Of course! Use SED, the only superfast editor that runs on all terminals we have (by the way, ONLY ours), adapts the keyboards to have optimal function keys, has non-working ultrahistoric audio tape save commands, and several bugs that are left in because they are so useful as a feature. It is the fastest and handiest editor I've ever used in CP/M. If you want to have it, I advise you to borrow the author with it, and he can (but doesn't like to) adapt the editor to you personal needs. By the way, we also have the program RECOVER that recovers a lost file from memory if the editor unexpectedly quits (in our multi-user CP/M, this can be done with a keypress... beware!). -- | | "Never image yourself not to be otherwise than what | | Jurjen N.E. Bos | it might appear to others that what you were or | | | might have been was not otherwise than what you had | | jurjen@cwi.nl | been would have appeared to them to be otherwise." |
young@pur-ee.UUCP (Mike Young) (06/15/89)
Favorite text editor under CP/M? VDE. Definitely. I use it on a Xerox 820 with a pair of 5.25" DSSD Remex (yecch) drives. I love it. -mike young young@ecn.purdue.edu ...!pur-ee!young
samlb@magellan.arc.nasa.gov (Samuel B. Bassett) (06/16/89)
Forget WRITE -- if you're used to WS, it will drive you crazy. I use WS in non-document mode. Sam'l Bassett, Sterling Software @ NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field CA 94035 Work: (415) 694-4792; Home: (415) 454-7282 samlb%well@lll-crg.ARPA samlb@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov <Standard Disclaimer> := 'Sterling doesn't _have_ opinions -- much less NASA!'
compata@cup.portal.com (Dave H Close) (06/16/89)
Granted it doesn't meet all the stated requirements, particularly its missing multiple windows, but I still like WordMaster. Its fast, handles any size file, and only requires about 10K. I've adapted it to a VT200. Was originally available from MicroPro, just like WS which evolved from it. Don't know if its still available. Dave Close, Compata, Arlington, Texas compata@cup.portal.com
ritchie@hpldola.HP.COM (Dave Ritchie) (06/16/89)
>- Express V1 (available from SIMTEL) Very powerfull, extremely > configurable. But: Limited to files which fit in memory, a lot > of the good features are missing. According to the documentation > V2 (which supposedly has all the good stuff in it) should be > available from TCI, 17733 205th Avenue, Woodinville, WA 98072; > but that place doesn't seem to exist any longer (no phone > number). Does anyone know what happened to them ? I would get > Express V2 immediately ! This was written by Laine and Cecil Stump for CP/M. Laine is a writer for Micro Cornucopia magazine and can be reached thru there. Whether or not the still have CP/M machines is another story. Dave Ritchie P.S. BTW, does direct posting get sent back to ARPAnet from Usenet for comp.sys.cpm?
dg@lakart.UUCP (David Goodenough) (06/16/89)
From article <8906140701.AA06420@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, by RALPH@UHHEPG.BITNET: > Now a "loaded" question, which will probably start another "what is your > favourite ..." war: > > WHAT IS YOUR FAVOURITE PROGRAMMING EDITOR UNDER CP/M ? VEDIT. It is worth noting that I use a vintage 1979 version of VEDIT (yes, it's ten years old) and I still haven't found anything that comes close. Now that I have my hard disk I'm going to have to do some grunt work to patch it for scanning user areas, and I have one other beef with it that I can probably fix when I'm inside it. If this doesn't work, I'll probably shell out for the latest copy, because I don't think anything else will ever provide the features that VEDIT does. It's a bit like QTERM - only 10K, but more stuff in it than in some editors that are twice the size (can you say TECO command set - I knew you could). OK - I'm going to put on my +6 ring of fire resistance ..... :-) -- dg@lakart.UUCP - David Goodenough +---+ IHS | +-+-+ ....... !harvard!xait!lakart!dg +-+-+ | AKA: dg%lakart.uucp@xait.xerox.com +---+
michaelk@copper.MDP.TEK.COM (Michael D. Kersenbrock) (06/17/89)
The Mince (Mince Is Not a Complete Emacs) Editor or one of it's later incarnations is a decent CP/M-80 editor (if you are of the EMACS persuasion). It edits files up to a 256K or so by virtualizing the workspace using a swap-file. Runs particularly fast when you put that swap file into a RAMdisk as I did (I also hacked the swapfile's initiation so that only the header sector would be there to begin with, and the swap file would grow only as needed). One of the nice things about EMACS-style editors is that they are available in one form or another on just about any machine or O/S, so if you use multiple machines, being a EMACS-style user can be helpful. I still have a *very* nicely packaged 3-ring folder containing the disks and documation to the "MrEdit" editor. They initially tried to sell it for a couple or three hundred dollars, then dropped the price substantially before they exited the scene. Anyway, if you find one of those, it looks pretty good from the documentation (I never actually used it much). So, despite the dumb name, the product looked pretty decent. One last comment. The Mince editor only allows two screen windows (max) at a time. As with most non P.D. CP/M-80 S/W nowdays, just where you get any of these things is left as an exercise for the user.....the best editor may be "whatever you can find".... :-) -- Mike Kersenbrock Tektronix Microprocessor Development Products michaelk@copper.MDP.TEK.COM Aloha, Oregon
morris@jade.jpl.nasa.gov (Mike Morris) (06/18/89)
In article <8906140701.AA06420@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> RALPH@UHHEPG.BITNET writes: >Date: 12-JUN-1989 14:25:58.83 >From: Ralph Becker-Szendy RALPH AT UHHEPG >To: GATEWAY::"Info-CPM@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil" >Subj: What are recommended programming editors for cp/m > >Now a "loaded" question, which will probably start another "what is your >favourite ..." war: > >WHAT IS YOUR FAVOURITE PROGRAMMING EDITOR UNDER CP/M ? > >A few remarks. I am specifically looking for a programming editor, not a >word processor. I know the following: > >- WordStar V3.3, in use every day, but it is slow and stupid, >- WordStar V4, I heard a lot about it and should finally get it, but it > is probably hardly better than V3.3 when it comes to > programming. Even Micropro was flabbergasted by the response to the CP/M version of WS4 - over 10,000 copies sold in the first few months. even with the major bug in the ZCPR install code. >- Express V1 (available from SIMTEL) Very powerfull, extremely > configurable. But: Limited to files which fit in memory, a lot > of the good features are missing. According to the documentation > V2 (which supposedly has all the good stuff in it) should be > available from TCI, 17733 205th Avenue, Woodinville, WA 98072; > but that place doesn't seem to exist any longer (no phone > number). Does anyone know what happened to them ? I would get > Express V2 immediately ! >- VEDIT Plus, supposedly avaliable from CompuView, 1955 Pauline BLvd, > Ann Arbor, MI 48103, (313)996-1299. Supposedly supports > multi-window and files of any size. I only have a sales flier > for their Mess-Dos version. Is the cp/m version still available? > Is it any good ? I used to use an old VEDIT (plain vanilla) CP/M daily. I like it - but there are a few things I would have done differently. One thing I _really like_ - it is TOTALLY programmable as to the function keys. ANYTHING can be put ANYWHERE. You can have a wordstar-style layout, as I started with, or make it like TECO. I used an ADM-42 terminal for a while, which has over 16 function keys, shiftable to 32, in addition to control keys. My VEDIT installation was very wordstar-ish, but with several things on function keys for one key stroke. BTW many things in VEDIT can have an alias - to block a paragraph I used ^KB and ^KK, aliased with F3 and F4. My roommate disn't use VEDIT enough so he used ^KB and ^KK, I used F3 and F4. I'd still use it if the ADM-42 hadn't died. I acquired a Televideo 970, and couldn't find the original VEDIT disk to regen it for ANSI. (PS - anybody have a user/programmer manual for a TVI 970? HELP!) VEDIT MS-DOS is still available, I would imagine that CP/M would still be available, even if it's not advertised. The last ad I saw was in the Sept/Oct '87 issue of Micro-Cornucopia, and listed Ver 1.40 $49 (single file, no windows) 2.32 $79 (multi-file, no windows) 2.33 $95 (multi-file, windows) With a free fully functional demo disk that can even edit small files, it would seem to be a deal. The address and phone number you list is current. >- ME, which comes with the FTL Modula 2 compiler. Supports multi-window > editing, but is limited to editing in memory. Many features > usefull for general editing are missing, and it is awfully slow. > So extend it? ;) (just kidding) >In particular, I would love to have a multi-window (at least two) >editor, it makes life so much easier. Editing in memory is hardly >acceptable. Also, it should be adaptable to ANSI (or DEC) terminals >(which have some awfull escape sequences). In particular, it should (if >possible) make use of the "restricted scroll area" feature of ANSI >terminals when windowing (since windowing with delete line / insert line >escape sequences is just too slow). > >By the way ... I guess for word-processing WS V4 is unbeatable. How does >WRITE (supposedly available from Workman & Associates) compare to WS V4? I have WRITE - and was talking to alex at W&A just a couple of days ago. It is a LOUSY programming editor. It was written by Tony Petisch to Jerry Pournelle's and Larry Niven's specifications to be what is is fantastic for: generating text to be printed in 8.5 by 11.0" form, 68 columns per line, between wide left and right margins. WRITE has pretty much stagnated since Jerry Pournelle stopped giving it free plugs in BYTE and INFOWORLD, and most professional writers (the main audience) switched to MuShy-DOS. BTW Alex Pournelle works at W&A and can be reached at cit-vax!dstar!alex As far as I know, WRITE hasn't been touched in years. PS - the FTL Modula editor you mention above - ME - is also from W&A. They have a BBS oriented to W&A products at 818-791-1013, voice on 818-791-7979. >Go ahead ... flame each other about your favourite editor ... make my >day! I will just sit here, listen to all of it, and make up my mind (or >not). You haven't mentioned VDE - it's on most Z-nodes, probably on SIMTEL. I've seen flame wars from WS-lovers and VDE-lovers, and while I've never tried VDE, I gather that it's just as flexible, and faster than WS 3.3 I'd be interested in the results of your observations. US Snail: Mike Morris UUCP: Morris@Jade.JPL.NASA.gov P.O. Box 1130 Also: WA6ILQ Arcadia, Ca. 91006-1130 #Include disclaimer.standard | The opinions above probably do not even