a.guillaume@trl.oz.au (Andrew Guillaume) (05/22/91)
In article <Pqm821w163w@austex>, roadhog@austex (Lindsay Haisley) writes: > There are a couple of good programs set for MSDOS machines which allow > them to read a >wide< variety of CP/M disk formats. A pretty good > program is 22DISK from Sydex. (snip,snip) > The registered > version contains support for over 270 different CP/M formats plus the > ability to add custom formats if you know the disk setup parameters. (snip,snip) > The second option is UniForm -PC from Nicro Solutions - the same folks who > made the venerable UniForm for CP/M machines throughout the 80's. Their > advirtising states that UniForm-PC supports "hundreds of different diskette > formats", which is probably true. On a related subject, I thought I might ask a similar question. I have an Apple //c, with an Applied Engineering card which gives me cp/m capability. It has a Z80, and the Z80 gets woken up when I boot with a cp/m diskette. Other members of my family have various other cp/m machines, like a Heathkit H89, and an Amstrad PCW8512 with a 5.25" disk drive. I've always wanted to be able to read these other cp/m disk formats (all 5.25" diskettes), but of course understand that there are problems. Like the H89 disks are hard sectored :-( Anyway, I was interested in finding out whether there existed a program that would enable me to read any cp/m disk format from any other machine. Eg, I would love to be able to read stuff written on a disk formatted on a Kaypro, or an Osborne, and have the inverse possible, like giving a Kaypro owner one of my diskettes formatted on the Apple. I'm not an expert on disk formats, so let me have the full story if this is/is not possible. And flame me by email if this is the wrong newsgroup to discuss this topic :-) > "Everything works if you let it!" Ooh, I'm only too willing, but it still doesn't :-) Andrew Guillaume Internet : a.guillaume@trl.oz.au
rat@ruth.UUCP (David Douthitt) (05/30/91)
a.guillaume@trl.oz.au (Andrew Guillaume) writes: > On a related subject, I thought I might ask a similar question. I have an > Apple //c, with an Applied Engineering card which gives me CP/M capability. [snip] > Anyway, I was interested in finding out whether there existed a program that > would enable me to read any cp/m disk format from any other machine. Eg, I > would love to be able to read stuff written on a disk formatted on a Kaypro, > or an Osborne, and have the inverse possible, like giving a Kaypro owner one > of my diskettes formatted on the Apple. Unfortunately, the Apple II diskette goes beyond mere data incompatibility and is physically incompatible with the IBM diskette. To read an Apple diskette in an IBM PC (or vice versa) an adapter is required. For the IBM PC, several Apple II emulator boards exist, including the Trackstar board, which will support Apple II diskettes. Imagine watching your IBM boot off of an Apple II DOS 3.3 Master! (I seen it, I did!) For the Apple II, Applied Engineering makes a IBM PC emulator board which will support the IBM PC disk format in an external drive. I've not tried this product, but I hear good things. In addition, there is a product called MatchPoint-PC, which will read PC diskettes in your Apple drive. But it's not an emulator. Sorry couldn't be of more help..
dcook@spam.ua.oz (David Cook) (06/01/91)
While on the subject of disk formats, are there any programs that will read Microbee 3.5" CP/M disks. As far as I am aware, the Microbee (an Australian designed and built CP/M machine, which also had some graphics support, until the company went broke :-( ) is the only CP/M machine that uses 3.5" disks, which hold 390K. While I'm asking, I'll be really optimistic, and ask if there are programs for the Microbee which will read IBM 3.5" disks (somehow I _really_ doubt it :) Thanks in advance, David T Cook | e-mail: dcook@spam.adelaide.edu.au | Phone: +61 8 228 5709 Assistant Computer Manager, Stats, Pure and Applied Maths LMG, Adelaide Uni "The wonderful thing about USENET is that anyone can express their opinion." "The worrying thing is that they _do_."
wilker@gauss.math.purdue.edu (Clarence Wilkerson) (06/01/91)
If the 3.5" disk is physically compatible with ibm pc type drives, then you can hack a set of parameter tables to match them and use 22disk, a shareware program that runs on a PC. My guess would be that the disks are single sided, double density with either 5 1k sectors per track or 10 512btye sectors per track, with first 2 tracks reserved for system. My second guess would be double sided SINGLE DENSITY, which the usual pc controller will not read. The 22disk instructions do have a hardware patch to read single density, however. If this is not urgent, and you don't have the experience to use 22disk, you can send me a sample disk with a few files on it (Non-critical stuff only, please) to me at Prof. Clarence Wilkerson Dept. Math. Purdue University West Lafayette, INdiana 47907 and I can probably figure it out. One gotcha is if the drive is actually 3" and not 3.5". Clarence Wilkerson
kpopple@imp.sim.es.com (Ken Poppleton) (06/04/91)
In article <Z8cR31w164w@ruth.UUCP>, rat@ruth.UUCP (David Douthitt) writes: > > Unfortunately, the Apple II diskette goes beyond mere data > incompatibility and is physically incompatible with the IBM diskette. > To read an Apple diskette in an IBM PC (or vice versa) an adapter is > required. > > For the Apple II, Applied Engineering makes a IBM PC emulator board > which will support the IBM PC disk format in an external drive. I've > not tried this product, but I hear good things. In addition, there is > a product called MatchPoint-PC, which will read PC diskettes in your > Apple drive. But it's not an emulator. > In addition there is the FDC-10 disk controller card for the Apple II. It allows the connection of up to 4 IBM-PC disk drives, either 5.25" or 3.5". The drive can read an write MSDOS disks, but as of yet there is not a utility to perform this task. Disks can also be formated for use with ProDos (not to be confused with compatability with an Apple disk drive formatted disk). For information contact Conversion Technology (CTI) in the care of Patrick L. McLaughlin 516 12th Ave Salt Lake City, Utah 84103 801/364-4171 The current price is about $80 for the card and drives are in the $70 to $100 range. Ken Poppleton
bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) (06/06/91)
In article <822@spam.ua.oz> dcook@spam.ua.oz (David Cook) writes: > While on the subject of disk formats, are there any programs >that will read Microbee 3.5" CP/M disks. As far as I am aware, the >Microbee (an Australian designed and built CP/M machine, which also >had some graphics support, until the company went broke :-( ) >is the only CP/M machine that uses 3.5" disks, which hold 390K. Well I know of at least 1 other CPM machine that used 3.5" disks. Sony. We used the Sony CPM machines as a front end for an interactive video disk system a zillion years ago. With the 64k RAM, Sony's Basic with Video Disk extensions, we had about 28k left for a program. Worked great. We "knocked their socks off" when we finally got it all running. -- Bill Vermillion - UUCP: ...!tarpit!bilver!bill : bill@bilver.UUCP
rjl@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au ( r lang) (06/07/91)
In article <822@spam.ua.oz>, dcook@spam.ua.oz (David Cook) writes: > > While on the subject of disk formats, are there any programs > that will read Microbee 3.5" CP/M disks. As far as I am aware, the > Microbee (an Australian designed and built CP/M machine, which also > had some graphics support, until the company went broke :-( ) > is the only CP/M machine that uses 3.5" disks, which hold 390K. Microbee still exists, but to my knowledge is not making CP/M machines. Microbee was bought out a few years ago by the Serafini (sp?) brothers who run MicroHelp in Brunswick, Victoria. > While I'm asking, I'll be really optimistic, and ask if there > are programs for the Microbee which will read IBM 3.5" disks > (somehow I _really_ doubt it :) Yes. FBN Software which wrote PC-Alien also wrote Bee-Alien which was sold by Microbee. I bought a copy of this and it mostly works (my version won't format IBM 5.25" 360k disks, but will read them correctly). There are some 3.5" MSDOS formats listed, but I haven't tried them. I have also written my own program to read and write IBM disks - this will handle 5.25" 360k and 3.5" 720k. It is known to work on a 54k, 128k and 256k Microbee. Since CP/M has an ambiguous file end, copying to CP/M and back to IBM will usually give you some trailing garbage on a file (after a ^Z). If you send me a 3.5" disk with return postage, I will put on it a copy of Kermit-80 4.11 for the Microbee. Clarence Wilkerson writes: > If the 3.5" disk is physically compatible with ibm pc type > drives, then you can hack a set of parameter tables to match > them and use 22disk, a shareware program that runs on a PC. I have tried this and it didn't work. I have two theories, neither has been tested. 1. Microbee disks have 10 sectors and the intersector space is shorter than specified in the Western Digital data sheet. The PC may not like this short space. 2. I think (but am not sure) that the sector header information is marked side 0 for both sides of the disk. If the PC insists that side 1 is marked as side 1 ... > My guess would be that the disks are single sided, double > density with either 5 1k sectors per track or 10 512btye > sectors per track, with first 2 tracks reserved for system. 3.5", 10 512byte sectors per track, single sided, 390k 3.5", 10 512byte sectors per track, double sided, 780k In both formats tracks 0 and 1 (both sides) are reserved for system. I have the correct DPB entries and skew table if anyone wants them. -- Russell Lang Email: rjl@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au Phone: (03) 565 3460 Department of Electrical and Computer Systems Engineering Monash University, Australia
syswtr@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun7.064252.13117@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au>, rjl@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au ( r lang) writes: > In article <822@spam.ua.oz>, dcook@spam.ua.oz (David Cook) writes: > Clarence Wilkerson writes: >> If the 3.5" disk is physically compatible with ibm pc type >> drives, then you can hack a set of parameter tables to match >> them and use 22disk, a shareware program that runs on a PC. > I have tried this and it didn't work. > I have two theories, neither has been tested. > 1. Microbee disks have 10 sectors and the intersector space > is shorter than specified in the Western Digital data sheet. > The PC may not like this short space. > 2. I think (but am not sure) that the sector header information > is marked side 0 for both sides of the disk. > If the PC insists that side 1 is marked as side 1 ... On item 2: The SMC floppy controller on the SB180 (a '765 look-alike) is capable of reading diskettes that have the side bit in the sector header wrong. I don't know if the NEC or Intel chip acts the same, but if so the following may help: Write command: Command Unit/Head (controls hardware lines) Cyl Head (controls what is to/from disk) Record Size EOT GPL DTL On the FDC9266 setting the 'Unit/Head' bit to side one and the 'Head' byte to side zero does work. Willy
ns@csd.cri.dk (Nick Sandru) (06/10/91)
bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes: >Well I know of at least 1 other CPM machine that used 3.5" disks. >Sony. Another one is Commodore 128. It uses 3.5" disks with the Commodore 1581 disk drive (capacity: 796 Kbytes). >-- >Bill Vermillion - UUCP: ...!tarpit!bilver!bill > : bill@bilver.UUCP Nick Sandru -- .signature coming soon
freeman@WATSUN.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mike Freeman) (06/12/91)
The Hewlett-Packard HP-125 Business Assistant has 3.5" drives; 252K total capacity, 248K user space. The disks are DSDD (but not, I believe, the new "high-density" variety). I'd be interested in software for the HP-125 to write in IBM-compatible formats. -- Mike Freeman K7UIJ --
lesley@cavebbs.gen.nz (Lesley Walker) (06/12/91)
>bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes: > >>Well I know of at least 1 other CPM machine that used 3.5" disks. >>Sony. In article <ns.676557376@csd> ns@csd.cri.dk (Nick Sandru) writes: >Another one is Commodore 128. It uses 3.5" disks with the Commodore 1581 >disk drive (capacity: 796 Kbytes). My Amstrad PCW has a 3.5" drive. It's not standard, but the conversion is being marketed quite heavily in the UK, as far as I can tell. -- The Leather Goddess - DoD#258 * lesley@cavebbs.gen.nz Wellington, NZ. Yamaha XV1000 * Lesley.Walker@bbs.actrix.gen.nz "Strange what desire will make foolish people do" - Chris Isaaks
roadhog@austex (Lindsay Haisley) (06/16/91)
> > > Clarence Wilkerson writes: > > If the 3.5" disk is physically compatible with ibm pc type > > drives, then you can hack a set of parameter tables to match > > them and use 22disk, a shareware program that runs on a PC. > I have tried this and it didn't work. > I have two theories, neither has been tested. > 1. Microbee disks have 10 sectors and the intersector space > is shorter than specified in the Western Digital data sheet. > The PC may not like this short space. > 2. I think (but am not sure) that the sector header information > is marked side 0 for both sides of the disk. > If the PC insists that side 1 is marked as side 1 ... > > > My guess would be that the disks are single sided, double > > density with either 5 1k sectors per track or 10 512btye > > sectors per track, with first 2 tracks reserved for system. > 3.5", 10 512byte sectors per track, single sided, 390k > 3.5", 10 512byte sectors per track, double sided, 780k > In both formats tracks 0 and 1 (both sides) are reserved for system. > I have the correct DPB entries and skew table if anyone wants them. Sydex, the people who created 22disk, also have a product out called AnaDisk which does a fairly thorough and intelligent analysis of >>any<< disk format, CP/M, DOS, or otherwise. Contact Sydex (see the 22disk reg. info) for a shareware sampler containing the program. The registered version of 22disk has a pretty good facility for creating your own disk format table, and the instruction which come with the registered version give fairly complete directions for the process. Lindsay Haisley "Everything works if you let it!" --- Travis J. Redfish ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ uucp: austex!roadhog@emx.utexas.edu BBS: 512-259-1261 (Znode 77 - aka - Kaypro Club of Austin)