knudsen@ihwpt.UUCP (04/07/87)
Level 2 for the Coco3 finally arrived near Chicago on
April 2, and I think I got the 1st or 2nd one sold.
In summary, it is GREAT!
1. Windows are very useful and easy to customize.
Windowing modules are included in the $80 price.
2. So is BASIC09, which has all the old stuff plus
a new interface for the HiRes "H" graphics.
3. 100% graphics compatibility with Level 1.
TSEdit works perfectly (try TSEDIT file #32K).
4. Double sided 40 and 80-track disks are finally
supported! And OS9GEN and COBBLER know how to
make boots onto them. Bye bye BOOTFIX.
5. The 2+" thick manual is much improved. You get
a mini 3-ring binder like with IBM PCs. Typesetting
and printing is much more readable, the writing is much
clearer with more examples and hints, and there are several
indices and tables of contents. The first day I was using
info that is probably in the old 3-manual Level 1 set
but I never found it there.
6. MONTYPE command to set all screens for Mono,
Comp, or RGB.
7. Tremendous support for the new graphics hardware.
Includes the ability to PUT and GET parts of the graphics
screen as in RS-BASIC, plus you can XOR, AND, or OR the PUT.
Can draw Arcs and Ellipses. Can load software-defined fonts--
manual tells how to make your own.
8. Multitasking really works now. I started a disk backup
in one window, went to another and did a DIR with only slightly
slower typing response. Fun to hear the disks break the
backup rhythm and do the DIR, then go back to backup!
Just think what you can do during formats and DSAVEs too.
Strangely there is no TSMON or LOGIN supplied, now that it
would be useful.
9. Boot disks must have CMDS containing SHELL and GRFDRV,
since Shell isn't in the bootfile any more for good reasons.
Time to leave -- to be continued.
--
Mike J Knudsen ...ihnp4!ihwpt!knudsen Bell Labs(AT&T)
>>>DRUGS are for WIMPS who can't handle SCIENCE FICTION<<<rsanders@watdcsu.UUCP (04/07/87)
In article <1576@ihwpt.ATT.COM> knudsen@ihwpt.ATT.COM (mike knudsen) writes: >Level 2 for the Coco3 finally arrived near Chicago on >April 2, and I think I got the 1st or 2nd one sold. >In summary, it is GREAT! As I said in a previous posting, I got mine in Waterloo, Ontario Canada on Mar. 25. I have not tryed it much since (been busy). I think I got the 1st one at our store. I fired it up last night again and did some playing. >1. Windows are very useful and easy to customize. >Windowing modules are included in the $80 price. ($100CDN) These are only realy window DRIVERS, Microware is comeing out with a product called Multi-Vue (I think) that will manage these windows and give you pull down menus etc. >2. So is BASIC09, which has all the old stuff plus >a new interface for the HiRes "H" graphics. Yes, but the assembler is gone! >3. 100% graphics compatibility with Level 1. >TSEdit works perfectly (try TSEDIT file #32K). This is VERY good to know, I was struggleing away with edit (YUK) last night. I will have to try TSEDIT tonight. Got to get the 512K board. I only have 56k free after Level II boots. >4. Double sided 40 and 80-track disks are finally >supported! And OS9GEN and COBBLER know how to >make boots onto them. Bye bye BOOTFIX. I haven't tryed these, but check out the other postings in this group re possible problems. >5. The 2+" thick manual is much improved. You get >a mini 3-ring binder like with IBM PCs. Typesetting >and printing is much more readable, the writing is much >clearer with more examples and hints, and there are several >indices and tables of contents. The first day I was using >info that is probably in the old 3-manual Level 1 set >but I never found it there. True, but there are the usually number of typos and missing things. Just casually using the manual last night, I found a few. Also the info is about 3" wide and the binder is 2.8" wide! Anyone know where to buy a binder that size? >6. MONTYPE command to set all screens for Mono, >Comp, or RGB. But montype is not in the documentation on individual commands! >7. Tremendous support for the new graphics hardware. >Includes the ability to PUT and GET parts of the graphics >screen as in RS-BASIC, plus you can XOR, AND, or OR the PUT. >Can draw Arcs and Ellipses. Can load software-defined fonts-- >manual tells how to make your own. Yes , I havent tryed these but the manual description looks good. >8. Multitasking really works now. I started a disk backup >in one window, went to another and did a DIR with only slightly >slower typing response. Fun to hear the disks break the >backup rhythm and do the DIR, then go back to backup! >Just think what you can do during formats and DSAVEs too. >Strangely there is no TSMON or LOGIN supplied, now that it >would be useful. Basically Tandy is now shipping what Microware calls Personal OS9. You do not get any development or multiuser stuff. They figure the CoCo environment is for single USERS, not Multi PROGRAMERS. >9. Boot disks must have CMDS containing SHELL and GRFDRV, >since Shell isn't in the bootfile any more for good reasons. Also, the Shell file in CMDS has much more than just shell in it. You also get dir, copy, tmode, and a bunch of others I cant remmember. This is because since an task uses at least 8k, it is more efficent to fill up that 8k. -- Roger Sanderson: {clyde|decvax|ihnp4}-\ {tektronix}-+--> watmath!watdcsu!rsanders {ubc-vision|utzoo}-/
jonh@tektools.UUCP (04/08/87)
I have a question. We don't have Level II around here yet, and I keep hearing this rumor that Tandy left a bunch of the commands out of L II and is selling them in a second package with a bonus (for THEM!) price. True or False? thanks, Jon -- _ ___ ___ __ __ _ _ _ \Jon / \ | \ | / \ / \ |\ | '' \ / |_ ' |_) |_ \ Howell / \ |____) |__ / / \ | \ | \/\/ |_ | \ |_ \ ( ) | \ | ( ___ ( ) | \ | --- _ _ ___ ___ _ _ \ \ / | \ | \ / \ / | \ | |_) |_ | | |_ |_) |'' \ \_/ | \ |___ \__/ \__/ | \| |_) |_ | | |_ | \ o \
rsanders@watdcsu.UUCP (04/09/87)
In article <2335@tektools.TEK.COM> jonh@tektools.UUCP (Andy Davidson) writes: > >I have a question. We don't have Level II around here yet, and I keep hearing >this rumor that Tandy left a bunch of the commands out of L II and is selling >them in a second package with a bonus (for THEM!) price. True or False? This is SORT OF true. It is actually Microware who is repackaging the whole line of OS9 products. They now have 3 levels of packages: Personal OS9 - intented for personal and educational use. This include the standard kernal, most often used utility commands and BASIC09. This is suposed to be a single user package, therefor it does not include login , tsmon, etc. Professional OS9 - This is the developers package, it includes the C compiler assembler debug etc. Industrial OS9 - Package for macking ROM based systems for OEM use. Tandy is suposed to be bringing out a Developers kit and the Muti-Vue window management package. The Developers kit presumably adds the stuff to bring Personal up to Professional. -- Roger Sanderson: {clyde|decvax|ihnp4}-\ {tektronix}-+--> watmath!watdcsu!rsanders {ubc-vision|utzoo}-/
knudsen@ihwpt.UUCP (04/09/87)
> I have a question. We don't have Level II around here yet, and I keep hearing > this rumor that Tandy left a bunch of the commands out of L II and is selling > them in a second package with a bonus (for THEM!) price. True or False? > thanks, > Jon Yes, it's true to some extent. Level II is missing stuff for developing new programs (ASM) and even patching the existing modules (SAVE, VERIFY, DUMP, and DEBUG). However, all of these can be borrowed from a Level 1 disk and they work. DEBUG needs a couple zaps to work on non-system modules, but it does disk descriptors just fine as-is. (You get descriptors under CONFIG for double-sided and/or 40 and 80 tracks, And they work!) These I can verify from experience in the past week (got L2 a week ago TODAY). I expect ASM and C compiler to work just fine too. L2 does include that weird EDIT with some new features added (or maybe just the manual is so much better written that you can see them. The docs are MUCH nicer in every way, tho not typo-free). TSEDIT works just fine. So does every Level 1 program I've written myself, including some hairy graphics-screen stuff. Haven't tried my old DynaStar yet on the 80-column window, but the word is it doesn't work yet. So, you're not restricted to program development. The "developer's pack", whose projected price I forgot (well under $100 I think), will have ASM, C (!) and yet another screen editor called SCRED which I hear has been around the OS/68K world a while. Most important, this will include expanded DEFS files with data structures to support the terrific windowing, menu, and mouse system calls described in the main manuals. Tandy is indeed "unbundling" Level II, but not entirely out of greed. After all they throw in BASIC09, a $100 value under Level 1. And with 40K of workspace in Level II, BASIC09 may be worth something now. Also separate, some day, is "MultiView" (sp?), a Mac/ST-like environment, which should help folks overcome OS9-phobia. The support for all such goodies is already there in the $79 Level II system. Sorry you Oregonians are still waiting, but some places in US and Canada had it 2 weeks before Chicago. It's worht the wait. You might never boot Level 1 again. mike k -- Mike J Knudsen ...ihnp4!ihwpt!knudsen Bell Labs(AT&T) Delphi: RAGTIMER CIS: <memory test failed> " ~E(x):[is_lunch(x) && cost(x)==0] "
jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (04/14/87)
In article <2335@tektools.TEK.COM> jonh@tektools.UUCP (Andy Davidson) writes: > >I have a question. We don't have Level II around here yet, and I keep hearing >this rumor that Tandy left a bunch of the commands out of L II and is selling >them in a second package with a bonus (for THEM!) price. True or False? >thanks, It's a pretty dirty trick to load the question via you're current wording. Then again, I've been known to do it too. :-) What's happened essentially is this: Tandy has packaged the equivalent of Microware's "Personal OS-9". That is to say, if you buy OS-9 68K you have a choice of 3 packages you can buy. If you get the "Personal" version, you only get X number of utilities, Microware BASIC and Scred (I *think* you get Scred--not sure). If you buy "Professional" OS-9 you get a bunch more utilities, MicroEMACS instead of Scred and C instead of BASIC. Either way, you can buy anything you didn't get in your package separately. Level II from Tandy follows the "Personal" OS-9 pattern, but you don't get Scred, but you *do* get the window driver system. I understand that a utility kit will be available for somewhere around $100.00 (don't quote me, it's just a rumour as far as I know). The price makes sense. When you bought Level I you didn't get BASIC09. As such you're paying about the same for the whole shot when you get Level II as you did for Level I. The pricing is quite fair. If you consider what you get for your dollar it still beats any other system I know (easily better than MS-DOS or Unix in value received). We can always hope that Microware or Tandy will, some day, decide to give even more for your dollar. Until then, the question is whether what is offered is good value. Oh, and by the way, there's always the public domain too. Public domain versions of many of the utilities are already around. I expect some others will show up as well. Also, in terms of assemblers, you may want use the assembler which comes with the C compiler instead of the 'asm' assembler. There are many who argue that it's sufficiently better. Anybody know if a new version of the C compiler is coming? -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 ihnp4!utzoo!lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura