EWTILENI@pucc.Princeton.EDU (Eric Tilenius) (02/03/88)
>I'm still trying to decide how to distribute my program >(shareware, PD, sell it (thru whom?)). I'm interested in marketing any CoCo 3 software... we're currently working on some other products. If you have something, I'd be interested in taking a look at it. Please write to ColorVenture, 11 Prospect Drive South, Huntington Station, NY 11746 and tell me about what you have, or give me a call. Perhaps I can help you out. - ERIC - * Another proud CoCo 3 user * ______________ | | BITNET:ewtileni@pucc | ARPA:ewtileni@pucc.Princeton.EDU | ColorVenture | CompuServe: 70346,16 | MCI Mail and/or Delphi: TILENIUS |______________| PHONE :609-734-0092 | UUCP:{rutgers,cbosgd,cmcl2}!psuvax1!pucc.BITNET!ewtileni
koonce@skippy (tim koonce) (02/05/88)
>I'm still trying to decide how to distribute my program >(shareware, PD, sell it (thru whom?)). From what I've seen and heard, how to distribute it depends on what you want out of it. For the Color Computer market: Shareware will likely _not_ make you any money at all. In any shareware situation, only a small percentage actually pay for the program. In the PC market, where a few thousand copies are likely to get distributed, you will see some money, since that small percentage still amounts to a few hundred people. For the CoCo market, shareware distribution is comparatively light, so you're not likely to see more than a dozen or so (if that many) people actually pay for it. I may be overly pessimistic about this, though. If you want to get lasting fame and see lots of people using your program, shareware or PD (or "freeware", which means you copyright it, unlike PD, but don't request any money) is definitely the way to go. Mike Ward has become quite a celebrity (so to speak) because he released "MikeyTerm" as freeware. If you really want to make money, write for another computer. However, if you would like to see a modest return, write a _good_ program, market it through one of the better-known companies, and convince them to sell it for a fairly low price. If it's priced like your competition, you may not sell as well. Most people that have $99 Color Computers are a little unwilling to pay $200 for a word processor. Figures I've seen and heard suggest typical incomes from Color Computer programming significantly below minimum wage. Not a way to get rich. Not a way to make a living unless you're _real_ good. These are opinions and hearsay, of course. I decided to try to market my program, figuring that getting some money (most of which will go back into my computer in the form of a hard drive sometime, assuming I make that much) was important enough that I could live if my name didn't become a household word in the CoCo community. - Tim +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Bitnet: koonce%bosco.Berkeley.edu@jade.berkeley.bitnet | |ARPA: koonce@bosco.berkeley.edu Delphi: TIMKOONCE CIS:72276,1135 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
dml@loral.UUCP (Dave Lewis) (02/11/88)
In article <1554@cartan.Berkeley.EDU> koonce@bosco.Berkeley.EDU (tim koonce) writes: >For the Color Computer market: >Shareware will likely _not_ make you any money at all. In any >shareware situation, only a small percentage actually pay for the >program. In the PC market, where a few thousand copies are likely to >get distributed, you will see some money, since that small percentage >still amounts to a few hundred people. For the CoCo market, shareware >distribution is comparatively light, so you're not likely to see more >than a dozen or so (if that many) people actually pay for it. I may >be overly pessimistic about this, though. I've never bothered to total it all up, but I've gotten about $250 for some shareware. It hasn't brought me great fame and recognition, but I've seen it on Compuserve, Delphi, and several bulletin boards. Actually it consisted of several programs, including an improved OS-9 disk driver, OS9Gen, Cobbler, and a bunch of other utilities that allowed OS-9 users to run double-sided disk drives on their CoCo's. I distributed the sources individually on net.micro.6809, with a little message saying "send $10 for all the programs". For the $10 (some people sent more, thanks!) you got a disk containing source and binary for 11 programs, 6 or 7 shell procedure files to automate installation, and 5 pages of TROFF'd instructions with MAN-type descriptions of all the commands. People who bought early versions got source upgrades (on paper; I would have lost money sending a second disk) and bug fixes. The kicker is that I wrote all this stuff for my own use in the first place. Of course, I'm pleased that other people found it useful, especially so that some of them sent money for it. Still, I didn't set out to make money -- that just happened after I had these programs laying around. Another benefit was that several people pointed out bugs (a couple even dug in and figured out how to fix them) that I might never have found. ------------------------------- Dave Lewis Loral Instrumentation San Diego csndvax ---\ ihnp4!crash --\ celerity --->------------->!sdcsvax --->--->!loral!dml (uucp) dcdwest ---/ gould9 --/
erict@flatline.UUCP (eric townsend) (02/19/88)
In article <1541@loral.UUCP>, dml@loral.UUCP (Dave Lewis) writes: > > I've never bothered to total it all up, but I've gotten about $250 for > some shareware. It hasn't brought me great fame and recognition, but I've Um, did you pay income tax on that $250? I've read a couple of articles by programmers who got hit by IRS/state taxmen for non-payment of taxes. Some states would probably consider you to be a business and ask to see your state-tax liscense... You would only have to collect sales tax on monies recieved from inside your state, however. I would check it out, though. One programmer I read about pulled in about $450, but had to pay about $500 in fines after he paid the taxes on his $450.. Total left him somehwere near $250 *poorer* than when he started. -- Just say NO to skate harassment. | Just another journalist with too much If I wish really hard, will IBM go away forever? | computing power.. Girls play with toys. Real women skate. -- Powell Peralta ad J. Eric Townsend ->uunet!nuchat!flatline!erict smail:511Parker#2,Hstn,Tx,77007
davis@utx1.UUCP (Gary A. Davis) (03/08/88)
[reposted - not sure if it made it out the first time] in article <1554@cartan.Berkeley.EDU>, koonce@skippy (tim koonce) says: > >>I'm still trying to decide how to distribute my program >>(shareware, PD, sell it (thru whom?)). > > > From what I've seen and heard, how to distribute it depends on what > you want out of it. As a long-time publisher/developer of exclusively CoCo/OS9 software (advertising since about January 1982), I will have to say that you will probably not make it rich in this market. The rewards are there, but they aren't necessarily monetary. Sure, there are exceptions; getting your software into the Radio Shack stores is probably good; programs such as Telewriter and CoCo Max are probably big sellers. But, suppose you have a good program and you want to make the most you can. There are several options: 1. Market it yourself Beware. You see new advertisers every month (I am talking about Rainbow) and others drop out every month. Often, the developer/ publisher will try a 3-month quarter page ad and see what happens. This is the route I took. The ad rates then were $25/mo. My goal was 40 sales (I only had 1 program - Silly Syntax) in 6 months. I barely made it (circulation at that time was about 2000-3000). Now days, ad rates are a few hundred dollars, though circ. is much higher. Also, there are now more vendors. Be prepared to offer service (long distance calls, letters), VISA/MC is nice, half my mail orders come this way and most of my phone orders. You will have to take care of printing (booklets, catalogs), designing ads, publicity, policy (do you publish others works - I eventually started this (TIMS was the first), royalty, buy-out, exclusivity, etc). This is the most work and most risk, but it may be the most profitable and rewarding if you like the business end. 2. Have someone else market it You can do this by finding a publisher willing to take a chance on your program. He may buy out your rights so he takes the risk (and perhaps the reward) and you get your money up front. Alternatively, he may pay you some sort of royalty basis. This may mean a steady though not abundant (depending on the sales, of course) income. Find a publisher that advertises regularly and carries the type of software that you are trying to distribute (games to a game vendor, educational to an ed. vendor, etc.). You will probably be required to support, or help the vendor support, your program (bugs, enhanc- ments, etc). This option is valuable to those not interested in the marketing aspect. It generally allows you to sit back, once the development is over, and just wait for those royalty checks to come in. 3. Shareware/Freeware This has recently been discussed. It is the easiest choice; you just put a few comments in the front of the source (if you want to give out the source), or messages (if you just want to give out the executable) and post it the the net, CompuServe, Delphi or your local BBS. I don't have any experience with this, but it appears from reading this newsgroup lately that you shouldn't expect much more than a bit of "fame". At least a lot of people will like you! This option probably is the least work, since, if you don't feel like it, you don't have to support it. 4. Submit it as an article You could send your program to Rainbow, or other CoCo journal (not too many left anymore). I assume they have a lot of submissions and it is probably much more difficult to get them to accept anything than in the early days. Concentrate on supplying specific material for their special issues with plenty of lead time (for example, they have a printer issue, games issue, business issue, etc.). As far as I am concerned, there are not enough OS9/technical articles. Maybe this is a good area or maybe they have plenty but have chosen not to emphasize this area. Anyhow, I think they do pay on a per-page basis. 5. Get a booth at RainbowFest Sugar Software has gone to almost all the RainbowFests (I missed the one at Ft. Worth, fortunately). A booth only costs about $700. I always do very good at these shows, usually about a months worth of business in 3 days. The next one is in Chicago, May 20-22. Stop by my booth and say, "Hi, I read your message on the net!". There are now 2 fests a year. Anyone know of any other options? These are the five that came to mind just now, so maybe I left something out. If you are interested in marketing through Sugar Software, here is what you should know: 1. Request a "Software Submission Agreement" before you send any software. It protects me and you. For example, if I am about to publish something that looks very similar to what you sent my, you might think I stole it (I really didn't :-). The request would give me the opportunity to tell you before you even send the software, not to sent it. The SSA also will specify a date at which I will let you know and several other things. Also, while I am evaluating your program, I have exclusive rights. Don't submit your program to other vendors at the same time. 2. If all goes well I will contact you and either say no, I can't use your program or yes, send me your stuff. A NO means one of many things. Generally, it is because I don't think the market is big enough for the type of program described or else I already market something like it or someone else does or it is outside "my" line (educational, utilities, OS9). A YES means you will have to send your program, user document- ation, internal (program) documentation and source code (hard and soft copies) for evaluation. I have the specified time to decide. 3. Assuming I said YES above, I will send you 2 copies of the "Software Licensing Agreement" (the contract). This spells out lots of things such as royalty arrangements, rights and respon- sibilities, etc. You sign them if you like it an return. Maybe you make some changes. I sign and return one copy to you. I may request you fix up your program to marketable standards. Very few (none) come in that need no work. A NO means I didn't like your program, or possibly many other reasons. Sorry. You can now try another vendor. I keep what you sent for my files. This unfortunately happens a lot. I am very picky about what I take on. Read virtually any of our software reviews and you will find they are all very favorable. I am proud of all the items I carry and want it to remain so. 4. You eventually send me the "final v1.0" version along with documentation. I take care of typesetting or whatever is needed disk/tape duplication, advertising and press releases. It will probably be a few months before you see your product in an ad. From start to finish, this whole procedure may take from three to nine months. 5. Again, don't expect to get rich. You will probably be able to pay for some of your hardware/software and may be able to deduct some of these costs as business expenses against your income tax (check you tax specialist). Concentrate on making your programs easy to use, work on a wide variety of configurations, wide appeal. I don't want to see a PMODE 2 screen-dump program for a RS-DMP 101 printer for RSDOS that requires a 512k CoCo. I do want to see a screen dump that runs on any OS9 for any resolution for any known printer for any configuration CoCo (well, maybe not the 4K CoCo). Well, you get what I mean. If your program works only on CoCo IIIs, or only OS9 LII, that is okay. Non-extended basic and 16K no longer have to be supported. Gary A. Davis Sugar Software PO Box 7446 Hollywood, Fl 33021 (305) 981-1241 -- Gary A. Davis Racal-Milgo, P.O. Box 407044, Fort Lauderdale, Fl 33340, (305) 476-4393 {allegra,codas}!novavax!utx1!davis
EWTILENI@pucc.Princeton.EDU (Eric Tilenius) (03/11/88)
In article <2265@utx1.UUCP>, davis@utx1.UUCP (Gary A. Davis) writes: >Anyone know of any other options? These are the five that came to mind just >now, so maybe I left something out. Sure... a blatent plug for myself. ColorVenture is ACTIVELY looking for quality CoCo 3 software to market. We're planning on having a full page, four-color ad in Rainbow starting soon, and NEED QUALITY SOFTWARE TO MARKET. CoCo 3 only. If you're interested, write to me at the address below, or give me a call at 609-734-0092 // 516-271-8456. (Ask for me, Eric.) ColorVenture 11 Prospect Drive South Huntington Station, NY 11746 We currently have the following programs out on the market: Pyramix, Basic Freedom, Backup Lightning, Printer Lightning, CoCo Max 2 Patch, Tandy Hi-Res Joystick Interface Driver, ColorVenture RAMDISK, Disk Directory Dazzler... We can also help your program get into Tandy stores, if it has the right sort of market appeal. No email responses about commercial business, please. Friendly questions welcome by EMAIL, though! - ERIC - *----------------------===> SPACE IS THE PLACE... <===-----------------------* * ewtileni@pucc.Princeton.EDU // ewtileni@pucc.BITNET * * rutgers!pucc.bitnet!ewtileni // princeton!pucc.bitnet!ewtileni * * ColorVenture - Microcomputer Software - "Because Life isn't Black and White"* *--------------------===> Another proud CoCo 3 owner <===---------------------*