rl@cbnewsl.att.com (roger.h.levy) (10/18/90)
I've noticed that Radio Shack is selling the CoCo 3 for $100 this month. Is this a good time to buy or is the machine being phased out? I am interested in knowing if I can do some useful things with OS9 on a very limited budget. I have the following: CoCo 2 J&M floppy controller 2 double sided floppy drives TV as monitor OS9 Level I, C Compiler, Pascal Compiler (all version 1.0 ?) Everything is 7-8 years old and has seen limited use. If I can use it, I have a surplus 20 Meg HD removed from my PC. What is the lowest cost route to a usable, but unspectacular, level II system? Some questions: Do I upgrade to 512K by chip replacement, e.g. replace 16 4164 with 16 41256? What speed? I have surplus 41256. Can I get more than 512K and do I need it? Is a hard disk as necessary as it has become for PC systems? Are there applications that I'll really like better than what I have on a PC (e.g. Lotus, Wordperfect, DBase) or is the attraction primarily hacker appeal? Can the programming environment really compete with C, C++, Codeview, vi, Brief, MKS Toolkit, etc. available for the PC? Can I still get the software I need? I know about the list server at Princeton. Can I get by cheaply? Are there games that will make my 8 year old son stop wishing for a Nintendo? Is color graphics a big part of the attraction? Will I be unhappy with a monochrome setup? How will performance compare to my XT-style PC with a 12 MHz '286 accelerator board? Thanks for any response. Sorry for the novice questions that have probably been asked before but I haven't been reading this group. Roger Levy rl@groucho.att.com
wilker@descartes.math.purdue.edu (Clarence Wilkerson) (10/18/90)
The memory upgrade I used for a coco III was an add in board that accepted 1 x 256k bit chips. The chips in the machine are 4 x 64k bit chips. I don't know if 4 x 256k bit chips would work. The add-in board is about $35.
coop7b@bmers153.UUCP (John Bayko) (10/18/90)
In article <1990Oct18.104630.17418@cbnewsl.att.com> rl@cbnewsl.att.com (roger.h.levy) writes: > I've noticed that Radio Shack is selling the CoCo 3 for $100 this > month. Is this a good time to buy or is the machine being phased out? The CoCo 3 is being phased out. It is unofficially being replaced by a beast known as the TC9, from Frank Hogg Labs, which is faster, and allows for twice the memory (1 Meg vs 512K). The TC9 in turn can be upgraded with a high speed bus and a 68000, 68070 (<-- a 68010 made by Segnetics including serial port, 2DMA channels, and other bits), 68020 or 68030 later. The 16-bit CPUs run a version of OS-9 which is more full featured. Another alternative is the MMI. Is is not CoCo3 compatable, but is faster and costs somewhat less. More information on each is available in the comp.os.os9 area. The addresses of these companies are in a magazing called "The Rainbow", which you could probably find in a local computer store. > I am interested in knowing if I can do some useful things with OS9 > on a very limited budget. I have the following: > CoCo 2 > J&M floppy controller > 2 double sided floppy drives > TV as monitor > OS9 Level I, C Compiler, Pascal Compiler (all version 1.0 ?) > Everything is 7-8 years old and has seen limited use. If I can use > it, I have a surplus 20 Meg HD removed from my PC. What is the > lowest cost route to a usable, but unspectacular, level II system? Level II requires a CoCo 3 or TC9. The 6809 can only address 64K or RAM, and requires an MMU that these systems have to address more. There is no upgrade to the CoCo2. A Hard Drive can be added cheaply by purchasing an interface from Burke and Burke, which will allow any PC hard drove and controller to be used. More expensive, but faster interfaces are available. OS9 can work well from floppies. > Some questions: > Do I upgrade to 512K by chip replacement, e.g. replace 16 > 4164 with 16 41256? What speed? I have surplus 41256. > Can I get more than 512K and do I need it? An upgrade board with RAM plugs into two sockets near the CoCo 3 RAM chips. CRC computers sells a board and modification instructions to add 1 Meg of RAM. OS-9 Level II configures itself to the amount of memory you have. > Is a hard disk as necessary as it has become for PC systems? A hard drive is very nice, but not necessary. A RAM drive can be set up, and a 720K floppy can provide limited storage, but enough for most uses. Programs for the 6809 rarely exceed 64K, or require much storage. > Are there applications that I'll really like better than what > I have on a PC (e.g. Lotus, Wordperfect, DBase) or is the > attraction primarily hacker appeal? Skulptor, from Frank Hogg Labs, is a capable database. Application software is somewhat lacking, but is expected to improve for the 16 bit computers, such as the MM1. There are word processors, databases, spreadsheets, graphics editors, and even a tiny CAD program. Some non-OS9 CoCo programs are good. The CoCo Max III programs provide very good desktop publishing for a small system. PC programs are still better. > Can the programming environment really compete with C, C++, > Codeview, vi, Brief, MKS Toolkit, etc. available for the PC? No. C executables are small, and windows and multitasking make programming easier, but compiling is still slow, and there is no interactive environment. The challenge still makes the result satisfying :-). > Can I still get the software I need? I know about the list > server at Princeton. Can I get by cheaply? The best sources for commercial software are The Rainbow magazine and Radio Shack Express order. Public domain software exists (and lots of it) in Compuserve and Delphi, some impressive. Some software is slow because of the 8-bit 6809 CPU. > Are there games that will make my 8 year old son stop wishing > for a Nintendo? There are some impressive games. Not quite as impressive as a Nintendo or Amiga, but they could be enough. > Is color graphics a big part of the attraction? Will I be > unhappy with a monochrome setup? The CoCo3 displays 64 colours, but it will work in Black and White. From experience, though, 80 column screens strain the eyes on a BW TV set. A composite or cheap analog RGB monitor can be plugged in as an alternative. > How will performance compare to my XT-style PC with a 12 MHz > '286 accelerator board? A 6809 at 2 MHz compares to a 6 or 7 MHz 8088. Much of the software takes this into account, but a very complex GIF viewer can take three minutes to display a large picture. The larger 16 bit machines run at about 15MHz, and should be a lot faster than an equivalent PC due to a faster system bus. >Thanks for any response. Sorry for the novice questions that have >probably been asked before but I haven't been reading this group. > >Roger Levy >rl@groucho.att.com No problem. A better group to check would be comp.os.6809. Also, most CoCo enthusiasts can be found on Compuserve or Dekphi. And you're welcome. Sorry I don't have the addresses right now. no signature. std disclaimer. a tiny coco3.
stachnik@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (George Stachnik) (10/19/90)
/ hpcupt1:comp.sys.m6809 / rl@cbnewsl.att.com (roger.h.levy) / 3:46 am Oct 18, 1990 /
I've noticed that Radio Shack is selling the CoCo 3 for $100 this month.
Is this a good time to buy or is the machine being phased out?
==> I'm told it is indeed being phased out. Software will be cheap for
==> a while, then impossible to get.
I have the following:
J&M floppy controlleri
==> I don't believe that the J&M controller can be used with the coco3...
TV as monitor
==> To get the most out of the COCO3, you need to buy their RGB monitor,
which (the last time I checked) was about $200. This is what always
made me think twice about upgrading my COCO2...
OS9 Level I, C Compiler, Pascal Compiler (all version 1.0 ?)
===> While this stuff will work on the COCO3, it will not work any better
than it did on the COCO2 - i.e. it won't take advantage of memory
beyond the 64K line. To use the (up to) .5 Meg you can pack into
a coco3, you'll need OS9 Level II and you'll probably need to replace
some (if not all) of the compiler software. Make sure you still can.
Do I upgrade to 512K by chip replacement, e.g. replace 16
4164 with 16 41256? What speed? I have surplus 41256.
Can I get more than 512K and do I need it?
===> Not sure. Check Rainbow Magazine. They published the chip upgrade
directions a year or two ago.
Are there applications that I'll really like better than what
I have on a PC (e.g. Lotus, Wordperfect, DBase) or is the
attraction primarily hacker appeal?
===> If you like Un*x, you'll like OS/9 and its app's. Personally, I'll
stick with my PC until I feel like hacking....
Are there games that will make my 8 year old son stop wishing
for a Nintendo?
===> Only until his best buddy at school gets a Nintendo. Then he'll
want one too. You could have a Cray, and he'd want a Nintendo.
This is ghod's honest truth. Trust me.
Is color graphics a big part of the attraction? Will I be
unhappy with a monochrome setup?
===> The graphics on the coco3 are better than the coco2. They're comparable
to IBM's EGA graphics.
How will performance compare to my XT-style PC with a 12 MHz
'286 accelerator board?
===> How are you planning to compare them? COCOs do a few things better
than PCs. PCs do lots of things better than COCOs. The two machines
do very few things in the same way.pbrown@monsoon.Berkeley.EDU (Philip Brown) (10/21/90)
In article <-286509998@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> stachnik@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (George Stachnik) writes: >/ hpcupt1:comp.sys.m6809 / rl@cbnewsl.att.com (roger.h.levy) / 3:46 am Oct 18, 1990 / > >==> To get the most out of the COCO3, you need to buy their RGB monitor, > which (the last time I checked) was about $200. This is what always > made me think twice about upgrading my COCO2... While it won't be anywhere near perfect, a GOOD (read very new) color tv can handle displaying text in 80 columns. Just always use black on white as your pallet (a quick way do do this in RS-dos is CLS 5) the graphics won't be Quite right, but are quite bearable unless you're a perfectionist. > OS9 Level I, C Compiler, Pascal Compiler (all version 1.0 ?) >===> While this stuff will work on the COCO3, it will not work any better > than it did on the COCO2 - i.e. it won't take advantage of memory > beyond the 64K line. To use the (up to) .5 Meg you can pack into > a coco3, you'll need OS9 Level II and you'll probably need to replace > some (if not all) of the compiler software. Make sure you still can. WRONG! (well, half wrong) os9 level I cannot be used on the coco3. that's what os9 V2.00.00 is for (a total wate of money. why buy that when you can get level 2.00.01 [the "real" level 2, with windows, for roughly the same price?!!!) BUT: all the software, like the compilers, can be used in level 2 (sometimes with a few minor patches) > Do I upgrade to 512K by chip replacement, e.g. replace 16 > 4164 with 16 41256? What speed? I have surplus 41256. > Can I get more than 512K and do I need it? it's a drop-in board, usually populated with 16 16-pin 256chips > Are there applications that I'll really like better than what > I have on a PC (e.g. Lotus, Wordperfect, DBase) or is the > attraction primarily hacker appeal? >===> If you like Un*x, you'll like OS/9 and its app's. Personally, I'll > stick with my PC until I feel like hacking.... hey. I resent that. you don't have to be a hacker in it's proper sense. similar to UNIX, once you learn the commands, it's easy (and it IS sort of similar to UNIX in a wierd way. But the Apps generally aren't as good as the $X00.00$$ PC applications > > Are there games that will make my 8 year old son stop wishing > for a Nintendo? >===> Only until his best buddy at school gets a Nintendo. Then he'll > want one too. You could have a Cray, and he'd want a Nintendo. > This is ghod's honest truth. Trust me. True. if they had any brains, the kiddies would go with a Turbo-Grafix 16 :-> -Signature-Signature-Signature-Signature-Signature-Signature-Signature-Signat "Dammmit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a barber!" -- Tiny Toons on Planet Follicle
smcgee%albion.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Scott Mcgee) (10/21/90)
In article <-286509998@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> stachnik@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (George Stachnik) writes: >/ hpcupt1:comp.sys.m6809 / rl@cbnewsl.att.com (roger.h.levy) / 3:46 am Oct 18, 1990 / > >I've noticed that Radio Shack is selling the CoCo 3 for $100 this month. > >I have the following: > J&M floppy controller >==> I don't believe that the J&M controller can be used with the coco3... Actually, I used my J&M controller on my coco3 with no problem. The only reason I replaced it was because I wanted a Disto SC II controller with "no-halt", rs232 port, parallel port, and real time clock. > TV as monitor >==> To get the most out of the COCO3, you need to buy their RGB monitor, > which (the last time I checked) was about $200. Wrong! The best monitors to buy are NOT from Tandy! If you want a color monitor then the Magnivox 1CM135 is reccomended but several others are good and may be cheaper. The CM8 by Tandy is both expensive and inferior. I never have used a color monitor on my coco 3. I have had it for about three years now. I recently got an amber monitor for it but used a B&W tv for almost 3 years! > OS9 Level I, C Compiler, Pascal Compiler (all version 1.0 ?) >===> While this stuff will work on the COCO3, it will not work any better > than it did on the COCO2 All of them should work pretty much the same on the coco 3 but you would be VERY pleased with level 2! C can be ever so much nicer with a coco 3 without upgrading it! There is a nice graphic interface that does wonders! Don't know if it is released yet but I'm one of several testing it and it's really nice! Basic09 comes with OS9 level 2 and is also pretty nice. > Do I upgrade to 512K by chip replacement, e.g. replace 16 > 4164 with 16 41256? What speed? I have surplus 41256. > Can I get more than 512K and do I need it? According to Howard Medical in the Oct. Rainbow, a 1 Meg upgrade is $289 (includes software). > > Are there applications that I'll really like better than what > I have on a PC (e.g. Lotus, Wordperfect, DBase) or is the > attraction primarily hacker appeal? >===> If you like Un*x, you'll like OS/9 and its app's. In fact, you can make OS-9 look VERY much like Unix. I use both and got tired of changing syntax so I got some utilities that not only work better than what I had, but have unix syntax as well. All of it was public domain! (Including my terminal package!) Scott When in danger, | This isn't even MY opinion, let alone any one else's! or in doubt, |_______________________________________________________ run in circles, | scream and shout! | Email to: smcgee%albion@cs.utah.edu (Scott McGee)