gwl@rruxa.UUCP (George W. Leach) (04/21/87)
A Dentist friend of mine is interested in purchasing a
system to run some "IBM-Compatable" Dentist Application Software
on. He spotted a local special on the Tandy Model 2000 at his
local Radio Shack. I don't have all of the details, but I was
informed by him that it runs MS-DOS, has 256K of RAM, and the
standard interfaces for a printer and RS-232 connector. I think
he mentioned he could get a 20 Meg hard disk.
I can help him evaluate what he is getting for his money in
terms of what parts of the system are included and are not included
in the package (as soon as I find it all out!). What I need to
know is just how "IBM-Compatable" is this box? I am not at all
familiar with any of the Tandy products. Help anyone??????
George W. Leach
Bell Communications Research New Jersey Institute of Technology
444 Hoes Lane 4A-1129 Computer & Information Sciences Dept.
Piscataway, New Jersey 08854 Newark, New Jersey 07102
(201) 699-8639
UUCP: ..!bellcore!{indra | yogi | njitcis}!reggie
ARPA: reggie%njit-eies.MAILNET@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
From there to here, from here to there, funny things are everywhere
Dr. Seuss "One fish two fish red fish blue fish"wchao@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (William Chao) (04/21/87)
The Tandy 2000 is NOT an IBM-compatible like the 1000 series. but instead, it will only run MS-DOS stuff that makes standard calls to MS-DOS. My roommate have tried it already and he has standard MS-DOS stuff for his Zenith/Heath Z-100. If in doubt, try it on the 2000 first, I'm sure the store will glad to let you play around with it since I'm almost positive it's now discontinued. It's a fairly good buy if you want non-IBM compat. The speed is quite impressive 80% faster than std. 4MHz IBM-PC William Chao wchao@topaz.rutgers.edu
knudsen@ihwpt.UUCP (04/22/87)
Glad you asked. A year ago Tandy was having a real garage-sale
of items including 2000s. I asked the salesman how IBM-patible
the beast was. He said "About 5%". I replied "You mean about
five pct of IBM stuff won't run on it?" He corrected "No, 5%
WILL run, 95% WON'T!"
I asked "what did Tandy make it for then?" He said "CAD-CAM
and other graphics applications." For which, BTW, it is a hell
of a nice box. But, unless you can get all the programs
you need from Tandy, don't buy a 2000 and expect to use
generic software. A shame, but give Tandy credit for
ONE knowledgeable and honest salesman.
PS: This is my only knowledge. Owners of 2000s know
better and may have more (or even less?) optimistic
replies. Please excuse me if this salesman was all wet.
--
Mike J Knudsen ...ihnp4!ihwpt!knudsen Bell Labs(AT&T)
Delphi: RAGTIMER CIS: <memory failure, too many digits>
" ~E(x):[is_lunch(x) && cost(x)==0] "ma168a@sdcc3.UUCP (04/22/87)
> Glad you asked. A year ago Tandy was having a real garage-sale > of items including 2000s. I asked the salesman how IBM-patible > the beast was. He said "About 5%". I replied "You mean about > five pct of IBM stuff won't run on it?" He corrected "No, 5% > WILL run, 95% WON'T!" > I asked "what did Tandy make it for then?" If memory serves correctly, the 2000 was introduced at about the same time as the IBM-PC. It has a better chip (80186), better graphics, and higher capacity disks. Tandy introduced the machine as it's entry into the 16-bit/MS-DOS market. Tandy has been in the home computer business for longer than IBM -- but it doesn't have IBM's ability to set standards. There is a utility to convert PC disks to 2000 disks -- but programs which bypass DOS and address hardware (and perhaps even BIOS) will not run. Certain types of programs (e.g. communications packages) do this -- others do not. I think 5% is a bit low as an estimate. With Tandy's introduction of the 3000 (which is highly IBM- compatible) I expect that the low prices for the 2000 are closeouts. [I've heard reports that the 2000 is a fine machine. Don't eliminate it if its main use is to run certain specific software -- but test it first] J. Wavrik
timothym@tekigm2.TEK.COM (Timothy D Margeson) (04/22/87)
Hi,
About the 2000 and IBM compatibility. Most of the software available will
not work as expected on the 2000. The main reason is not the 80186, but lies
mainly in the kernal map, and BIOS implementation, not to mention the key
scan differences and video interface differences.
Some software, well written - a real hard thing to find - will work if all
of the correct switches are set. Such as Norton 3.1, if invoked with the
switch that tells the program to use MS-DOS calls for everything it does.
If these switches are not available then chances are the software will not
work, or may work for a while then crash (due to some obscure call). Some
of these programs will give the appearance of working 100%, but enter a
slight anomoly (e.g., disk full, mem full), and a crash is guaranteed.
Another example of the difference subtleties is Turbo Pascal. Version 2.00
will work on the 2000 okay (except graphics and a few other IBM specific
functions), but Version 3.00 will not. I even tried various installations
and screen drivers. It looks like it wants to work, but just can't pull it
off (everything seems to work, but the screen is blank).
Some other differences are the disk formats. You need a special program to
make IBM compatible disks. The Tandy defaults to 720K (96tpi DD). You must
double step the drive to make the diskette look like a 48tpi.
Program developement seems to work on the 2000 (i.e., more standard MS-DOS
compilers and assemblers seem to work without a hitch). I have done some
programming on my friends 2000 with a 'C' compiler and MASM 4.0.
Overall the 2000 is a fair machine, IF you know it is not IBM compatible, and
don't expect it to do IBM things. But despite what Radio Shack says, the 80186
is only a 5 to 10 % improvement over the stock 8086, not the 20 to 30 % that
the 80286 is over the 8086.
Compared to the IBM PC (8088), the 2000 is about 2.5 times the speed overall.
This is due the the faster microcode, the 16 bit data path, and the 8 vs 4.77
megahertz clock. The 2000 is on par with my Compaq Deskpro with a V-30 in
lieu of the 8086 normally installed (as it turns out the V-30 is more an 80186
inside than an 8086, thus the speed improvements).
Oh well, if the Doc can play with the software and machine together for a bit
before buying, he'd be in a far better position to know than anything you could
say to him.
--
Tim Margeson (206)253-5240
PO Box 3500 d/s C1-937 @@ 'Who said that?'
Vancouver, WA. 98668
{amd..hplabs}cae780!tektronix!tekigm2!timothym (this changes daily)cramer@infoswx.UUCP (04/24/87)
When introduced, the Tandy 2000, architecturally speaking, was (and really still is) a *very* good machine. Faster than IBM (at the time), better graphics than IBM (at the time), and a nicer bus interface for add-on boards (still). In software terms, most of the major vendors sell versions of their packages for the 2000; however, you cannot run many IBM versions in a 2000, and vice versa. I have Wordstar, Multiplan, and Softerm versions for my 2000 which both run nicely; the difference between the two machines must be trivial -- the Multiplan product came on a single diskette with options (at installation) for about any MSDOS system around (IBM, Tandy2000, TIPC, dumb terminals attached to MSDOS machines, etc). I tried, by the way, using an IBM version of each of these packages, both of which failed. I tried an IBM version of DBaseII, however, which worked just fine on the 2000. As stated above, the 2000 is quite different in the hardware end (which leads to the software incompatibilities -- most screen-oriented programs write directly to the video RAM, which on the 2000 is somewhere other than where it is on the IBM). Since it is so different, you cannot buy off the shelf enhancement cards (like serial ports, memory cards, hard disk cards, graphics cards, and the like). You must go to the Tandy store for these, where they are more expensive than say, a mail order house selling IBM cards. Bottom line: The 2000 is a good machine; it is fast, reliable, and now quite cheap, and you have the convenience of Tandy stores everywhere. My only warning is that you buy everything you think you may ever want for it now, since it is being discontinued and new parts/software may become hard to come by. Bill Cramer ihnp4!infoswx!cramer
gwl@rruxa.UUCP (04/24/87)
Thanks to one and all for the postings and/or e-mail responses
to my question on the Tandy 2000. It seems fairly clear that we should
only purchase this machine if, and only if, my friend has a small base
of software packages to run and we can determine if they will run on
the Tandy. If he has any thoughts on expanding his use of the system
we will have to take a much harder look at the Tandy.
Thanks Again!!!!
George W. Leach
Bell Communications Research New Jersey Institute of Technology
444 Hoes Lane 4A-1129 Computer & Information Sciences Dept.
Piscataway, New Jersey 08854 Newark, New Jersey 07102
(201) 699-8639
UUCP: ..!bellcore!{indra | yogi | njitcis}!reggie
ARPA: reggie%njit-eies.MAILNET@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
From there to here, from here to there, funny things are everywhere
Dr. Seuss "One fish two fish red fish blue fish"