chaz@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Charles D Lembach) (05/14/89)
I am considering purchasing a Tandy computer, probally one of thier 1000 series. I know of thier three models, not sure of the specific intials, maybe SL, TL, TX? I do know that two are 286 based, and the third is not. I have a few questions if someone would be kind enough to answer them. 1) When owning a Tandy computer, do you have to strictly purchase Tandy hardware for it? i.e. disk drives, hard disks, etc. A) if not, is there a barnd that doesn't have compatibility problems? 2) Of the three mentioned above, which one is better in terms of IBM compatibility? I do know the two 286 based machines are quite alike, the only differnece I could tell was in the sound department. 3) Maybe someone could tell me what the specific details are between the three? 4) The prices are somewhere around $699 (For the non-286, can't think of the CPU number) to $1499 (not sure) for the claimed better of the three. Is this too much to pay for IBM compats and if so, what other brands are there in this price range or lower? I'm running out of questions, but I'm sure thats enough for you to ponder over. If you netters still like me after I have bored you with all these questions, I may come up with some more. :-) I'm telling ya, its easier buying a car than shopping for a reliable computer! Thanks on advance, -- Charles D. Lembach University of Wisconsin -Milwaukee Internet: chaz@csd4.milw.wisc.edu "Ack, pfffft!" <Bill the Cat>
japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) (05/14/89)
In article <2520@csd4.milw.wisc.edu>, chaz@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Charles D Lembach) writes: > > I am considering purchasing a Tandy computer, probally one of thier > 1000 series. I know of thier three models, not sure of the specific > intials, maybe SL, TL, TX? I do know that two are 286 based, and the > third is not. I have a few questions if someone would be kind enough > to answer them. > > I'm telling ya, its easier buying a car than shopping for a reliable > computer! I'm glad you had the sense to ask for opinions... I'm sure their are many who will tell you how happy they are with their Tandy 1000's but if you've read this newsgroup for long their are quite a few disgruntled owners... First of all I am not fully qualified to comment on the new computers but I can comment on the 1000A that I have and the 1000 SX that many members of my user group have 1. Tandy has a very bad history of designing computers that require Tandy peripherals and parts... and Tandy's peripherals are usually 50 to 100% higher than IBM compatible peripherals... lately other vendors have begun selling Tandy compatible parts mail order BUT the parts still tend to be higher than IBM compatible mail order parts... The new computers are of course touted by Tandy as IBM compatible but then so was the Tandy 1000A that I bought and so was the Tandy 1000 SX... I see no reason Tandy should change their deceptive marketing schemes... Based on prior experiance the following incompatibilities with a true clone will be found: A. non compatible monitor required or patch to DOS required B. non standard floppy disk cable C. non standard hard disk interrupt (fixed on the SX) D. poor wattage power supply (I had to use an external PS to run 2 hard drives! E. non standard joystick interface F. non standard parallel interface (requires a special cable which must be cut to use with industry standard printers like the Epson or HP laser!) G. non standard keyboard (supposedly fixed in the SL and TL but time will tell) Based on my experience the 1000 series IS NOT IBM compatible! 2 & 3: probably neither! If you really want a Tandy you need to look at the 3000... it is at least as compatible as most clones... none of the 1000 series are compatible. BTW) there really is only 2 machines... the TX is the old model... the new computers are the SL, which is an 8086 machine and the TL which is a 80286 machine with an 8086 bus. 4. The prices are so low because Tandy knows that you will return to buy their overpriced peripherals! Price the ENTIRE SYSTEM from Tandy when comparing because if you buy the machine cheap from them and expect to but cheap peripherals elsewhere you will join the rest of us disgruntled Tandy owners... Tandy, There are so many better values! - Joe Applegate - ======================STANDARD DISCLAIMER============================ All views and opinions are my own and do not represent the views or opinions of the Colorado School of Mines, whatever they might be. =====================================================================
dmuntz@caen.engin.umich.edu (Dan Muntz) (05/14/89)
In article <1535@csm9a.UUCP> japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) writes: >In article <2520@csd4.milw.wisc.edu>, chaz@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Charles D Lembach) writes: >> >> I am considering purchasing a Tandy computer, probally one of thier >> 1000 series. I know of thier three models, not sure of the specific >> intials, maybe SL, TL, TX? I do know that two are 286 based, and the >> third is not. I have a few questions if someone would be kind enough >> to answer them. >> >> I'm telling ya, its easier buying a car than shopping for a reliable >> computer! > >I'm glad you had the sense to ask for opinions... I'm sure their are many >who will tell you how happy they are with their Tandy 1000's but if you've >read this newsgroup for long their are quite a few disgruntled owners... > >First of all I am not fully qualified to comment on the new computers >but I can comment on the 1000A that I have and the 1000 SX that many >members of my user group have > >1. Tandy has a very bad history of designing computers that require Tandy >peripherals and parts... and Tandy's peripherals are usually 50 to 100% >higher than IBM compatible peripherals... lately other vendors have begun >selling Tandy compatible parts mail order BUT the parts still tend to be >higher than IBM compatible mail order parts... Yeah, a hardisk for the SL costs all of $20 more than one for the IBM. The SX will take standard IBM harddisks. > >The new computers are of course touted by Tandy as IBM compatible but then >so was the Tandy 1000A that I bought and so was the Tandy 1000 SX... I see >no reason Tandy should change their deceptive marketing schemes... I owned a 1000 SX for over a year (upgraded to a 4000 for speed) and the only software I found which wouldn't run on it was Minix (and I ran a he** of a lot of software on it) >Based on prior experiance the following incompatibilities with a true clone >will be found: > >A. non compatible monitor required or patch to DOS required >B. non standard floppy disk cable >C. non standard hard disk interrupt (fixed on the SX) >D. poor wattage power supply (I had to use an external PS to run 2 hard drives! >E. non standard joystick interface >F. non standard parallel interface (requires a special cable which must be >cut to use with industry standard printers like the Epson or HP laser!) >G. non standard keyboard (supposedly fixed in the SL and TL but time will tell) A. I have no idea what you mean by this. The SL does require an RGB monitor if you don't use your own video card. The SX could take a standard composite or RGB monitor. B. Maybe on the 1000A, but not the SX or SL. C. And supposedly fixed on the SL. D. (if you need 2 harddrives) E. Never had any problems with software not liking the joystick on the SL or SX F. Same cable as the Model III/IV (easy to find) G. SL and TL do, in fact, have a standard keyboard. > >Based on my experience the 1000 series IS NOT IBM compatible! > Read: limited experience. >2 & 3: probably neither! If you really want a Tandy you need to look at >the 3000... it is at least as compatible as most clones... none of the 1000 >series are compatible. > The 1000 SL is as close to 100% compatible software-wise as I have seen (it runs everything the SX does + minix) As for hardware, spend an extra $20 for a harddrive and buy the correct RAM chips to go up to 640K and you're all set. >BTW) there really is only 2 machines... the TX is the old model... the new >computers are the SL, which is an 8086 machine and the TL which is a 80286 >machine with an 8086 bus. > >4. The prices are so low because Tandy knows that you will return to buy >their overpriced peripherals! Price the ENTIRE SYSTEM from Tandy when >comparing because if you buy the machine cheap from them and expect to >but cheap peripherals elsewhere you will join the rest of us disgruntled >Tandy owners... > FOR NO REASON SHOULD *ANYONE* BUY PERIPHERALS FROM RS! They are extremely overpriced. Even the computer itself should be purchased from a mail-order house (SL's for approx. $550) >Tandy, There are so many better values! > Only if you buy directly from tandy, otherwise tandy computers are one of the best values on the market. -Dan M.
andyross@igloo.Scum.COM (Andrew Rossmann) (05/15/89)
In article <2520@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> chaz@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Charles D Lembach) writes: > > I am considering purchasing a Tandy computer, probally one of thier >1000 series. I know of thier three models, not sure of the specific >intials, maybe SL, TL, TX? I do know that two are 286 based, and the >third is not. I have a few questions if someone would be kind enough >to answer them. The current 1000 series is the TL, SL and HX, in descending price order. The HX is a 7.16MHz 8088 in a one piece case. It does not have standard PC slots. The SL is an 8MHz 8086 w/ 384K and a 360K disk (room for a second.) The TL is an 8MHz 80286 w/ 640K and a 720K disk (room for both 5.25" and 3.5" if I remember right.) The SL and TL are replacements for the SX and TX, respectively. > >1) When owning a Tandy computer, do you have to strictly purchase >Tandy hardware for it? i.e. disk drives, hard disks, etc. You can buy third party hard drives for all except the HX. The L series can use standard PC/XT controllers. You do not need special Tandy 1000 controllers (only the original 1000 and 1000A need it.) The only real oddball part you might need is a Tandy printer cable (The computer end is a card edge instead of a DB25.) > A) if not, is there a barnd that doesn't have compatibility problems? > >2) Of the three mentioned above, which one is better in terms of IBM >compatibility? I do know thE two 286 based machines are quite alike, >the only differnece I could tell was in the sound department. All are essentially 100% compatible. The SL and TL have IBM standard extended keyboards. The HX has the older 1000 style that is highly compatible. As the owner of an SX, I've had no real trouble with that style keyboard. Even though the TL has an 80286, it is NOT an AT compatible. It is just a super-power XT. The 3000NL is the entry level AT for Tandy. > >3) Maybe someone could tell me what the specific details are between >the three? As mentioned above: TL: 8Mhz 80286, 640K, DOS 3.3 in ROM, Deskmate in ROM. Memory can be expanded to 768K, with the extra 128K being used for video (video normally takes away 16K of your regular RAM. 1-3.5" 720K drive. Room for another 3.5" device and 1-5.25" device. Video is CGA with extensions (320x200 16 color and 640x200 16 color.) Also supports Hercules (with a monochrome monitor.) Sound available is a 3-voice chip (same as the PCjr and all other 1000's) and a digital sound recorder/player. There are 5 8-bit slots (10" length), 2 joystick ports, a stereo-headphone jack (1/8"), mic in, parallel port, serial port (9 pin). It also has a built in clock/calendar. SL: 8MHz 8086, 384K (expandable to 640K). All the features of the TL, except it comes with 1-360K disk, and has room for 1 more 5.25" device. It also does not have a clock/calendar. HX: 7.16Mhz 8088, 256K (expandable to 640K w/ expansion board), CGA extended (320x200 16 color), 3-voice sound, parallel printer port, headphone jack, 1-3.5" 720K disk (room for another 3.5" device), 2 joytick ports, DOS 2.11 in ROM, Deskmate in ROM. The expansion is through a 'PLUS' connector. There is actually only 1, but the memory expansion adaptor has 2 additional connecctors on it, allowing up to 3 cards. Some third parties have hard disk controllers that let you run an external hard disk. In fact, I'd bet that someone has an adaptor letting you use a 3.5" hard disk mounted internally (if the power supply could handle it.) > >4) The prices are somewhere around $699 (For the non-286, can't think >of the CPU number) to $1499 (not sure) for the claimed better of the >three. Is this too much to pay for IBM compats and if so, what other >brands are there in this price range or lower? The original catalog has the TL at 1299, the SL at 899, and the HX at 699. I'm pretty sure that prices have changed, and at least one of them is always on sale. For XT style computers, prices are fairly competitive, especially if you buy most of your peripherals from someone other than Tandy. > >I'm running out of questions, but I'm sure thats enough for you to >ponder over. If you netters still like me after I have bored you with >all these questions, I may come up with some more. :-) I curently own a Tandy 1000SX with 640K, Logitech Bus Mouse, Practical Peripherals 2400 baud internal modem, Tandy DMP-430 printer, Seagate ST-251 hard disk. I also have an 8087 math co-processor. (I forgot, the HX does not accept a math coprocessor. The SL can use an 8087, the TL an 80287.) I've run everything from Windows, AutoCad, GenericCADD, Lotus 1-2-3, Flight Simulator, ProcommPlus, and have never run into a compatibility problem. I am also running MS-DOS 3.3. ( I hope to get a copy of 4.01 soon.) > >I'm telling ya, its easier buying a car than shopping for a reliable >computer! Wait until you go to buy software! I can never make up my mind just what I want to buy. I want it all!!! :-) > >Thanks on advance, ^^ ??? Your Welcome >-- > Charles D. Lembach > University of Wisconsin -Milwaukee > Internet: chaz@csd4.milw.wisc.edu > "Ack, pfffft!" <Bill the Cat> killer!igloo!andyross, andyross@igloo.UUCP, andyross@ddsw1.MCS.COM (I'm too lazy to make up a .sig file.)
gmadison@pnet02.cts.com (George Madison) (05/15/89)
Charles, the opinion of the net is that Joe Applegate is a whiner. It is quite true that the 1000 series has certain limitations -- for example, they will only accept expansion boards up to 10" long. However, they are well built, and there are MANY third party add-ons (Joe Applegate's whining aside) that will work in the 1000 SL and TL. If you just want the machine for PERSONAL use, a 1000 will do nicely; if you expect "Heavy Duty" use, you would do better to look at the 3000 series -- they sport bigger power supplies and the ability to use full size add on cards. |George Madison, a/k/a George The Bear Cub, a/k/a Furr ** BEAR POWER **| |INET: gmadison@pnet02.cts.com 8-{)> ames!elroy!pnet02.cts.com!gmadison| |GEnie: GEORGE.M Arctophiles & Barbophiles Unite! PLink: BEARDLOVER| "I knew you were up to something, though I confess I hadn't thought of necrophilia." -- Prince Barin to Princess Aura, _Flash Gordon_
reyn@trsvax.UUCP (05/15/89)
Of the 1000TL, 1000SL, and 1000TX, I would recommend them in the order TL,
SL, and then TX.
The TL and TX both have the 80286 processor. The TL comes standard with
640K of RAM while the TX has 768K. The TL has Tandy's 640*200 16 color
graphic video, the TX has 640*200 4 color video. The big deciding factor
for me would be the keyboard. The TX has the old Model 2000 style
keyboard, while the TL has the newer and more standard PS/2 style.
The SL has the new keyboard also, but it comes standard with only 384K of
RAM. Its processor is an 8086.
Both the TL and SL allow you to disable the on-board video so that you can
add an EGA or VGA card. If you'll settle for monochrome, the Hercules
720*348 pixel monochrome graphics mode is provided on board in addition to
the Tandy enhanced CGA mode.
All three of the machines allow you to set the hard disk interrupt so that
you can use any hard drive controller short enough to fit in the 1000's 10
inch chassis.
The 1000SL and TL have MSDOS 3.2 in ROM, along with DeskMate support. I
personally love the DeskMate support, because I wrote parts of it. If you
feel otherwise, since it's in ROM you don't lose any system memory.
Both the SL and TL have an 8 bit A/D D/A which lets you perform some pretty
nifty sound recording and playback (comparable to that provided by the
Macintosh). Currently, the DeskMate Sound and Music applications are the
only ones I know of which take advantage of this, but it's right there on
the motherboard for anyone to use.
John Reynolds
Tandy R&D in beautiful Fut Wuth
The information and opinions expressed
here are mine, and not necessarilly
shared by my employer.jbudet@oakhill.UUCP (jim budet) (05/15/89)
In article <2520@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> chaz@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Charles D Lembach) writes: > > I am considering purchasing a Tandy computer, probally one of thier >1000 series. I know of thier three models, not sure of the specific >intials, maybe SL, TL, TX? I do know that two are 286 bas ... >1) When owning a Tandy computer, do you have to strictly purchase >Tandy hardware for it? i.e. disk drives, hard disks, etc. > A) if not, is there a barnd that doesn't have compatibility problems? I know that CompuAdd sells Tandy compatible hard cards for the 1000 series at a considerable cost savings. I personally have a Tandy 20 meg hardcard (CompuAdd did'nt sell them at the time). As for the disk drives, I have used only Tandy drives. I belive that the connectors are different than normal but I'm not sure. >2) Of the three mentioned above, which one is better in terms of IBM >compatibility? I do know the two 286 based machines are quite alike, >the only differnece I could tell was in the sound department. >3) Maybe someone could tell me what the specific details are between >the three? The 1000TL is the choice among the three that you mentioned. It is similar to the SL except that is has an 80286, socket for an 80287 and a 3 1/2" drive. The TL's video card supports Tandy CGA, IBM monochrome text and Hercules graphics. The TL and SL' digitized sound capability is, unfortunately, not very well supported by Tandy. Ignore deskmate. The TX is an older model that has some known compatibility problems with the video circuit and with adding a video card. It also has the funny keyboard. I would not consider it. >4) The prices are somewhere around $699 (For the non-286, can't think >of the CPU number) to $1499 (not sure) for the claimed better of the >three. Is this too much to pay for IBM compats and if so, what other >brands are there in this price range or lower? I bought the 1000TL through Marimac for about $900. It arrived two days after I ordered it and I have had no problems with it. If you have been following the Tandy flames here recently you are aware of some of the problems with buying Tandy Computers. In general they are expensive unless you buy them on sell or through mail order. Tandy support is usually terrible. There is usually one saleperson who is honest enough to tell you what he knows and will admit when he does'nt, the rest seem to make things up on the fly. On the other hand, I like Tandy computers. They are reliable, well supported by third party software vendors and you know that Tandy will be there if you really need them. But in general your on your own. If you buy a Tandy, take a look at the upgrade options currently available for it because the list will not grow. If you want to use hardware or software that will take specific advantage of an AT then do not buy the TL (although it will run 286 code such as Falcon-AT). Besides, if you plan on extensive upgrades then CompuAdd can make you a better deal. I have been dealing with Tandy for about 8 years now. I first bought a color computer, then a 1000 and know a 1000TL. I feel that I am pretty objective about Tandy. Feel free to contact me about any specific questions. =============================================================================== Jim Budet Disclaimer Motorola Microprocessor Products Group Austin, Texas =============================================================================== Phone : (512) 891-3175 Usenet : cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!elmer!jbudet Compuserve : 73177,171 ===============================================================================
jbudet@oakhill.UUCP (jim budet) (05/15/89)
In article <1535@csm9a.UUCP> japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate) writes: >In article <2520@csd4.milw.wisc.edu>, chaz@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Charles D Lembach) writes: >First of all I am not fully qualified to comment on the new computers >but I can comment on the 1000A that I have and the 1000 SX that ... >A. non compatible monitor required or patch to DOS required Not true. My original 1000 and my new 1000TL work just fine with normal CGA monitors. The TL also can work as is, with a monochrone TTL monitor. Tandy's CGA has an enhanced Tandy specific mode. But ALL software that supported the IBM CGA mode worked just fine. This includes the popular spread sheets, word processors, TSR's and compilers. Some manufacturers even support the enhanced CGA mode. >B. non standard floppy disk cable Yes, but big deal. How many times are you going to change the drive cable? You can buy it from RS. I made my own. Most people will not have to change it. >C. non standard hard disk interrupt (fixed on the SX) Problem fixed on the TL. But you will still want to by a Tandy compatible hard disk from CompuAdd. >D. poor wattage power supply (I had to use an external PS to run 2 hard drives! I have not seen this problem. My original 1000 ran two floppies, a 20 meg hard card, memory expansion board, Midi Board, serial plus board and a smartwatch without any problems. >E. non standard joystick interface If all you want to do is plug in joysticks then this is also no big deal. The RS Deluxe joysticks are better that most of the IBM ones that I have seen. The Tandy's also support two joysticks without the need for a special cable (that an IBM does). >F. non standard parallel interface (requires a special cable which must be >cut to use with industry standard printers like the Epson or HP laser!) True. CompuAdd sells a Tandy printer cable for a good price. >G. non standard keyboard (supposedly fixed in the SL and TL but time will tell) My TL keyboard works just fine thank you. >Based on my experience the 1000 series IS NOT IBM compatible! It is true that the 1000 series is not identical to an IBM. They are not trying to be. Besides, are you talking about hardware or software compatibility. I have not yet found any software that will not run on my 1000's. They are trying to offer you more than an IBM compatible at a reasonable price. Shop carefully, there are many good manufacturers to choose from. Tandy is only one. Skim through a "PC Magazine". PS I hope that this does not start another Tandy bashing session. =============================================================================== Jim Budet Disclaimer Motorola Microprocessor Products Group Austin, Texas =============================================================================== Phone : (512) 891-3175 Usenet : cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!elmer!jbudet Compuserve : 73177,171 ===============================================================================
aae493c@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (05/16/89)
I bought a 1000 TX about a year and a half ago, and have been very pleased with it. Like others have said, you can generally find peripherals which work fine with Tandys made by other companies for a fraction of the price (comparable to the price of peripherals for any other IBM compatible). I've found that the best source of info on these companies is PCM magazine, published by Falsoft, which is a Tandy-specific magazine. It's full of adds for Tandy-compatible peripherals. I got a 32 Meg hard card by mail order this way and it was cheap and it works fine. You can really find anything you need, and most of the places have 1-800 numbers if you have questions. Good luck, Jim Loellbach Dept. of Aero. and Astro. Engineering University of Illinois, Urbana
paulm@ccicpg.UUCP (tmp Paul Moreau usenet acct) (05/18/89)
I got the new 1989 Tandy catalog and it had a Model 4D in it.
I bought a model 4 recently and would like to upgrade it to
model 4D. My question is this:
Is the only difference the DOUBLE sided drives ?
If I put 2 48 tpi (PC XT types) Double sidded drives into
my model 4 will the disk controller know how to handle it ?
Does TRS-DOS 6.2 or LSI-DOS 6.2/3 know ?
I've only ,up to this point, run model 3 software on the thing
because when I got it, the person had it in storage for years and
had lost all of the software for it including TRS-DOS. I have
a friend that has a model 1 and some of the software he has bought
has come with model 1 and 3 diskettes. He gave me the model 3 stuff.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ ####### ####### ### C O M P U T E R |....+--------+.....+
+ ### ## ### ## ### |....| PAUL |.....+
+ ### ### ### C O N S O L E S |....| MOREAU |.....+
+ ### ## ### ## ### |....+--------+.....+
+ ####### ####### ### Incorporated |___________________+
+_____________________________________________________________+
+ +
+ (Never count your chickens before they rip your lips off) +
+ +
+ 4.2 > SysV This ,of course, is my own opinion. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Accident: A condition in which presence of mind is good, but absence of
body is better.
-- Foolish Dictionarybill@bilver.UUCP (Bill Vermillion) (05/19/89)
A couple of weeks ago I made a comment to one of Joe Applegates diatribes. To recap I said I had no problems with their hardware, running 16s,6000s, 3000s, and 4000s in Xenix environments, but that their service left something to be desired. Four to five days to get a machine running that had a service contract . Last week one of those machines died again. I wasn't there so I have to relate what happened via conversation with the secretary. The tech came, saw the error. Checked the machine. Said something to the effect of the real error is not what you would expect given the error message on the screen. Said he would have to go back to the shop to get the board he needed. He did. Returned. Replaced the board. Machine was up and running. Elapsed time from time the call was placed to having a non-booting machine running was just about 4 hours, which includes the trip back to the shop. I am suitably impressed (after being depressed earlier). The next week the owner said to me "the Radio Shack guys want you to stop complaining about their machines!" I guess you just have to get the ear of the right people. Something about the "squeaking wheel...." but in this case it's "the smoking chip get's fixed" :-). No complaints now. bill -- Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.UUCP
ncc1701@pawl.rpi.edu (Mark O. Chadwick) (05/20/89)
In article <25039@ccicpg.UUCP> paulm@ccicpg.UUCP (tmp Paul Moreau usenet acct) writes: > I bought a model 4 recently and would like to upgrade it to > model 4D. My question is this: > Is the only difference the DOUBLE sided drives ? > If I put 2 48 tpi (PC XT types) Double sidded drives into > my model 4 will the disk controller know how to handle it ? > Does TRS-DOS 6.2 or LSI-DOS 6.2/3 know ? I tried to put some different disk drives in the system, too. I had a pair of double-sided 96-tpi drives (80 tracks) which I added on to my Model IV. The DOS has no problem with using double-sided drives, even though it took a call to Radio Shack to discover that, since I got an old DOS manual with my TRSDOS 6.2 So, I formatted some disks as double sided, and then stuck the drive into the cabinet to replace the originals. The problem was, that the BOOT routine in the ROM does not know that these are double-sided drives, and hence gets confused when it needs to read the second side. If you can figure out a way to get all the important stuff onto one side so the machine can boot normally, and then use the other side to store data, you should be okay. I didn't have time, and TRSDOS 6.2 didn't seem capable of handling as much data as I was asking it to (it trashed one of my backup disks totally by writing over stuff already there) There is also something you have to do about the internal cable to the drives which caused some kind of problem. If you have the tech manual, you should be able to figure out what it was...I can't remember, and I don't have my manual here...sorry GOod luck. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ncc1701@pawl.rpi.edu | Live long and prosper, Spock USERGDES@rpitsmts.bitnet | I shall do neither. I have killed my (Mark Chadwick) | captain...and my friend
pa1044@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (John C. Fowler) (05/20/89)
In article <25039@ccicpg.UUCP> paulm@ccicpg.UUCP (tmp Paul Moreau usenet acct) writes: >I got the new 1989 Tandy catalog and it had a Model 4D in it. >I bought a model 4 recently and would like to upgrade it to >model 4D. My question is this: > Is the only difference the DOUBLE sided drives ? Yes, that's primarily the only difference. Additional differences include a serial board as standard equipment (plus Deskmate, which almost no one uses anyway). The Model 4D uses the gate-array type structure, which differs from the earlier Model 4's. Unless you plan to be doing a lot of hardware projects, there isn't much difference between the non-gate-array and gate-array 4's, from a software perspective. > If I put 2 48 tpi (PC XT types) Double sided drives into > my model 4 will the disk controller know how to handle it ? > Does TRS-DOS 6.2 or LSI-DOS 6.2/3 know ? If installed correctly, yes. The Model 4 disk controller is one of the best on the market. You can even run 3.5-inch drives on it without additional modification (just plug in and go!). All Model III and 4 DOS's support double-sided drives, except for TRSDOS 1.3. However, there are several modifications out there to allow DS access for that DOS, the newest being called "System 1.5." >I've only, up to this point, run model 3 software on the thing >because when I got it, the person had it in storage for years and >had lost all of the software for it including TRS-DOS. I have >a friend that has a model 1 and some of the software he has bought >has come with model 1 and 3 diskettes. He gave me the model 3 stuff. A quick note: this could be a copyright violation. Despite providing two diskettes, most software licenses allow only one user at a time. Of course, I doubt anybody will sue, but if you're a purist, you might want to track down some original copies for yourself. I see you're familiar with TRSDOS 6.2.1 and LS-DOS 6.3. Both of these operating systems should still be available from Radio Shack and Misosys, respectively. I recommend the purchase of either if you wish to use the full capabilities of your Model 4. Note that if you get TRSDOS 6.2.1, if you care about whether the date is current or not, you'll need a patch to go beyond December 1987. Several of these are also available. The best is probably David Goben's T62DOSXT program, but it's available on a commercial basis only. -- John C. Fowler, pa1044@iugrad2.UCSD.EDU (I could list others, but why?) Disclaimer: Could you imagine the ramifications if the Regents of the University of California held MY opinions? --
gmadison@pnet02.cts.com (George Madison) (05/21/89)
Yes, your Model 4's disk controller will handle DS drives. In fact, it will handle DS *80* track drives as well. You really should go to your nearest RS store and order a copy of TRSDOS 6.2, *WITH* the manual. There are commands that will tell the OS to expect DS drives. |George Madison, a/k/a George The Bear Cub, a/k/a Furr ** BEAR POWER **| |INET: gmadison@pnet02.cts.com 8-{)> ames!elroy!pnet02.cts.com!gmadison| |GEnie: GEORGE.M Arctophiles & Barbophiles Unite! PLink: BEARDLOVER| "I knew you were up to something, though I confess I hadn't thought of necrophilia." -- Prince Barin to Princess Aura, _Flash Gordon_
paulm@ccicpg.UUCP (tmp Paul Moreau usenet acct) (05/26/89)
Well I finally gave in and went to our local Tandy Computer Center for Orange County (Garden Grove CA.) and asked about TRS-DOS 6.2 and manuals which were in the 1989 Tandy Catalog. The salesman (shoe store ?) said that they had just sold the last one a month ago (funny, I called a month ago and they said that they haven't had them for years). They sugested That I call there 800 number in Fort Worth Texas and order it from them. So today I called texas and tried to place an order. They said that they no longer carry anything for the model 4. I know I can get a copy of LSI-DOS 6.3 from an outside vendor but I needed to get 6.2 so that I could get the MANUAL. No luck. What gives? Why is the model 4D and software in thier 1989 catalog. I tried to order the TRS-DOS by using the catalog part number and they said the the number was invalid. There sugestion was to call around the nation to all the Radio Shack dealers and see if maybe one of them might have a copy that they can blow the dust off and sell me. Am I out of luck ????? A while ago even a couple of people who worked at Tandy in Texas mailed a responce to an earlier posting, one even going as far as to give me the part number in which they carried software in. I lost (trashed) the reply so if anybody from Tandy reading this (or anybody else for that matter) can help me, let me know. I bought the system from a garage sale from a person who's business went under, and had the thing in storage for years. He had lost all of the software and manuals over that period (except the quick reference guide and some Service paperwork) and all I got was the system. I sure would like to use this system. I got a copy of TRS-DOS Model III stuff but that is slow and in low resolution. I am a programmer and would like to write some applications for the thing (even in basic if I have to). +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + ####### ####### ### C O M P U T E R |....+--------+.....+ + ### ## ### ## ### |....| PAUL |.....+ + ### ### ### C O N S O L E S |....| MOREAU |.....+ + ### ## ### ## ### |....+--------+.....+ + ####### ####### ### Incorporated |___________________+ +_____________________________________________________________+ + + + (Never count your chickens before they rip your lips off) + + + + 4.2 > SysV This ,of course, is my own opinion. + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The USA is so enormous, and so numerous are its schools, colleges and religious seminaries, many devoted to special religious beliefs ranging from the unorthodox to the dotty, that we can hardly wonder at its yielding a more bounteous harvest of gobbledegook than the rest of the world put together. -- Sir Peter Medawar
uhclem@trsvax.UUCP (05/30/89)
<> The TRSDOS 6.2 Manual (binder/doc/disks) catalog number is 26-0316. Tell the store to order it from TSA. They have got copies in stock right now (30-May-89 0900-CDT). Slap them around if necessary. :-) Point to the picture of that guy in the catalog who is giving the "ok" sign who "will order anything from anywhere for anybody forever!(TM)(R)(C)(P)". :-) They are supposed to order it if they don't have it. *They* are supposed to "call around the country" for you. This is not a "Where is as is" promotion, this is real life! If you can't get 0316 for some reason (like they goof around for 6 months), try ordering it as a part with TAP 874-9529 or TSA 874-9627. Either of these should get the manual, but probably no diskettes. But that should be OK, since you mentioned you were getting 6.3 anyway. By the way, a path to your site would be helpful, or even a phone number. <This information is provided by an individual and is not nor should be construed as being provided by Radio Shack or Tandy Corp. Radio Shack/Tandy Corp has no obligation to support the information provided in any way. But in this case, they do.> "Thank you, Uh Clem." Frank Durda IV @ <trsvax!uhclem> ...decvax!microsoft!trsvax!uhclem ...sys1!hal6000!trsvax!uhclem
wilso_d@cs.odu.edu (DeWitte Wilson) (06/02/89)
I would say to try giving Misosys a call @ 1-800-MIS-OSYS. They wrote 6.2, so they should certainly have it. Even if you've already ordered it, give them a call and see what the price difference is (if they indeed have it). ...DeWitte -- DeWitte Wilson <wilso_d@cs.odu.edu> Old Dominion University Sysop - The Mod III BBS 804-424-1215 [300=>2400] 8N1 "We are the keepers of the Sacred Words. Ni ... Peng ... and Neee ... Wom!"
paulm@ccicpg.UUCP (tmp Paul Moreau usenet acct) (06/15/89)
In an artical by Daniel Wynalda he said that with a simple modification a TRS-80 Model 4 could be modified to run with zero wait states on memory access. I very interrested in how to do it. I 've tried via unix mailer to contact danielw@wyn386 but as far as I know, the mail has fallen into the E-mail black hole. As some of you may remember, I'm the one who got the model 4 with no software. Well as of today I finally got a TRS-DOS 6.2.1 diskette and TRSDOS manual and Basic Manual. I called the computer center and asked for the Technical Reference Manual and the engineer there said that one for the Model III and Model 4 was never produced. I find that very hard to believe specially when the 6.2.1 DOS came with about 80 pages of the TRSDOS 6.0 to 6.2.1 Technical Reference Manual addendum pages. Oh well, such is life with Tandy.... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + ####### ####### ### C O M P U T E R | +---------+ + + ### ## ### ## ### | | An STC | + + ### ### ### C O N S O L E S | | Company | + + ### ## ### ## ### | +---------+ + + ####### ####### ### Incorporated |___________________+ + + + UUCP: ...ccicpg!paulm@dl2 (Paul L. Moreau) + + or ...ccicpg!paulm@dl1 (Diagnostics Software Eng) + + or ...paulm@ccicpg (Irvine, California) + + + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
paulm@ccicpg.UUCP (tmp Paul Moreau usenet acct) (06/16/89)
Around May 25 danielw@wyn386 posted an artical about modifying a TRS80
model 4 to run at zero wait states. I've tried to contact him via
the mailer but have been unsucessfull. Dan stated that if I was
interrested that he would look up the procedure and post it.
I'M INTERRESTED! If it requires faster rams then that is no
problem either.
Now to another problem. As some of you may know, I'm the one who
got the Model 4 with no DOS or software. Well after beating on our
local RSCC salesman I finally got a copy of TRSDOS 6.2.1. Now I
would like to get the Technical Reference Manual. What, one doesn't
exist ?! Well thats what the engineer at the RSCC swares by. He
said one was never produced for the model 4 and that all I can get
is the DOS manual and a service manual. How in the $%#! do you
write Z80 code to interface with the OS without a TRM?
Oh well, such is life with Tandy!
----
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ ####### ####### ### C O M P U T E R | +---------+ +
+ ### ## ### ## ### | | An STC | +
+ ### ### ### C O N S O L E S | | Company | +
+ ### ## ### ## ### | +---------+ +
+ ####### ####### ### Incorporated |___________________+
+ +
+ UUCP: ...ccicpg!paulm@dl2 (Paul L. Moreau) +
+ or ...ccicpg!paulm@dl1 (Diagnostics Software Eng) +
+ or ...paulm@ccicpg (Irvine, California) +
+ +
+ Harrisberger's Fourth Law of the Lab: +
+ Experience is directly proportional +
+ to the amount of equipment ruined. +
+ +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++bill@bilver.UUCP (Bill Vermillion) (06/18/89)
In article <28108@ccicpg.UUCP> paulm@ccicpg.UUCP (tmp Paul Moreau usenet acct) writes: > > In an artical by Daniel Wynalda he said that with a simple modification > a TRS-80 Model 4 could be modified to run with zero wait states on > memory access. .... > ... I called the computer center and asked > for the Technical Reference Manual and the engineer there said that one > for the Model III and Model 4 was never produced. I find that very hard > to believe specially when the 6.2.1 DOS came with about 80 pages of the > TRSDOS 6.0 to 6.2.1 Technical Reference Manual addendum pages. > Oh well, such is life with Tandy.... Don't confuse what you got with your DOS, with the hardware technical manual. However - that "engineer" at the computer center should be reported :-)/2 (one-half a smiley). On my shelf, and I just pulled it down, the manual says Model 4/4p Technical Reference Manual. Cat No 26-2119. (That should help). And I'll be darned. Just looking throug it and there is a software addendum with all the SVCs for the OS (TRSDOS 6 - alias LDOS). If the local store can't help you might try calling Tandy 's National Part center with the catalog number. I don't have the number handy but your local store should give it to you. Hope that helps you and any others. bill -- Bill Vermillion - UUCP: {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd}!peora!rtmvax!bilver!bill : bill@bilver.UUCP
leonard@bucket.UUCP (Leonard Erickson) (06/19/89)
In article <28211@ccicpg.UUCP> paulm@ccicpg.UUCP (tmp Paul Moreau usenet acct) writes:
< Now to another problem. As some of you may know, I'm the one who
< got the Model 4 with no DOS or software. Well after beating on our
< local RSCC salesman I finally got a copy of TRSDOS 6.2.1. Now I
< would like to get the Technical Reference Manual. What, one doesn't
< exist ?! Well thats what the engineer at the RSCC swares by. He
< said one was never produced for the model 4 and that all I can get
< is the DOS manual and a service manual. How in the $%#! do you
< write Z80 code to interface with the OS without a TRM?
The guy at the store is *wrong*! A Tech manual was produced, but is no
longer in the catalog. It's now a 700 series part number. I'd give you
the number, but I can't find my copy right now.
--
Leonard Erickson ...!tektronix!reed!percival!bucket!leonard
CIS: [70465,203]
"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools.
Let's start with typewriters." -- Solomon Shortgmadison@pnet02.cts.com (George Madison) (07/22/89)
paulm@ccicpg.UUCP (tmp Paul Moreau usenet acct) writes: > > TRSDOS manual and Basic Manual. I called the computer center and asked > for the Technical Reference Manual and the engineer there said that one > for the Model III and Model 4 was never produced. I find that very hard > to believe specially when the 6.2.1 DOS came with about 80 pages of the > TRSDOS 6.0 to 6.2.1 Technical Reference Manual addendum pages. He's full of it. I have two Tech Reference manuals, the "big binder" version put out before the 4P was introduced, and the MUCH more complete "little binder" version that covers the 4P as well. The "little binder" version I have says that it's catalog number 26-2119, if that helps any. |George Madison, a/k/a George The Bear Cub, a/k/a Furr ** BEAR POWER **| |INET: gmadison@pnet02.cts.com 8-{)> ames!elroy!pnet02.cts.com!gmadison| |GEnie: GEORGE.M Arctophiles & Barbophiles Unite! PLink: BEARDLOVER| "...Maybe there's a female spirit trapped in my body, and I don't know it 'cause she's a lesbian." -- Gallagher