[comp.sys.hp] Problem with HP 110

Jeff_LazerWolf_Bristol@cup.portal.com (04/02/88)

.
I have a problem with a Hewlett Packard 110 Portable that perhaps
someone can help with.
.
It seems that the internal battery has a problem with its memory (I am
just guessing but really know nothing about the battery or how it
functions).  The problem started about a year ago when the battery
would get down to about 70% and would warn of "low battery" and then
shut off (as if the battery were completely gone).  As time went on,
the problem got worse and worse until now the battery can only go down
to 98% before it automatically shuts off!  This is after a full recharge!
.
Is there a way to 'reinitialize' the battery or is the problem with
the computer?  The computer does no good to me as a 'portable' with
this problem.
.
Jeff Bristol

hals@hpuecoa.HP.COM (HAL SHEARER) (04/04/88)

>/ hpuecoa:comp.sys.hp / Jeff_LazerWolf_Bristol@cup.portal.com /  1:38 pm  Apr  1, 1988 /
.
>It seems that the internal battery has a problem with its memory (I am
>just guessing but really know nothing about the battery or how it
>functions).  The problem started about a year ago when the battery
>would get down to about 70% and would warn of "low battery" and then
>shut off (as if the battery were completely gone).  As time went on,
>the problem got worse and worse until now the battery can only go down
>to 98% before it automatically shuts off!  This is after a full recharge!
.
>Is there a way to 'reinitialize' the battery or is the problem with
>the computer?  The computer does no good to me as a 'portable' with
>this problem.
.
>Jeff Bristol

The problem is that the battery is just too old.  I've been using a
110 for 2-3 years and after that amount of time my battery did the
same thing.  Our local 110 guru said that occasionally a battery will
simply 'get tired' and not hold the charge properly anymore.  This 
does not seem to happen very often, out of approx. 50 110s he supports,
he's only seen it happen a couple of times.  He suggested that I not
let the battery get so low as often, something that I had been doing
with the old battery.

Hal Shearer
hpuecoa!hals

clay@hpficad.HP.COM (Clay Scott) (04/05/88)

Jeff,
  I had the same problem with a 110.  It was the battery pack.  The 110
shuts off when the battery voltage gets too low.  The % indication is 
just a rough estimate of use remaining and can't compensate for a weak
battery.  I won't swear to it, but I bet a new battery pack would give a 
lasting "cure".

				Clay Scott
				clay@hpfcla  

bill@hpcvlx.HP.COM (Bill Frolik) (04/06/88)

> functions).  The problem started about a year ago when the battery
> would get down to about 70% and would warn of "low battery" and then
> shut off (as if the battery were completely gone).  As time went on,

Try replacing the battery; it probably just won't hold a charge.

The fuel gauge in the HP110 and Portable Plus doesn't actually measure
battery voltage or current -- it's controlled by a separate microprocessor
that monitors time and system configuration (Is recharger plugged in?
Is serial port turned on?  Is display turned on?  Is system running, or
asleep?  How about that modem?) and then looks up average subsystem current
drains in a ROM table.  Even though this scheme seems kind of kludgy,
it works fairly well if the battery is in good shape.  But if your battery
won't hold a charge, or if some part of the system is drawing an abnormally
large amount of current, the fuel gauge won't track along properly since
the only thing it measures is time.

The system also contains a circuit that watches for the low-battery condition
(voltage drops below a certain threshold) and generates an interrupt if it
ever occurs.  The system then issues the "low battery" warning and eventually
shuts off to prevent the battery from becoming too deeply discharged.

Bill Frolik / hplabs!hp-pcd!bill
Hewlett-Packard / Corvallis Workstation Operation / Corvallis, Oregon

dsmith@hplabsb.UUCP (David Smith) (04/07/88)

In article <290001@hpuecoa.HP.COM>, hals@hpuecoa.HP.COM (HAL SHEARER) writes:
>                                              He suggested that I not
> let the battery get so low as often, something that I had been doing
> with the old battery.

Presuming that the battery is a NiCad, that is bad advice.  NiCads develop
a memory for how low they have been discharged.  If a battery has not
been allowed to discharge very low for a long time, it will take a set
and never discharge very low in the future.  You should discharge a NiCad
all the way down every three months to maintain its capacity.

			David Smith

van@hpislx.HP.COM (Van Walther) (04/07/88)

>>                                              He suggested that I not
>> let the battery get so low as often, something that I had been doing
>> with the old battery.

>Presuming that the battery is a NiCad, that is bad advice.  

However, the battery in the 110 is a sealed Lead-Acid battery.  The best
way to keep it alive is to keep it charged.  I keep mine on the charger 
except when using it portable.

Van Walther
Hewlett-Packard
Measurement Systems Operation

bw@hpcvlx.HP.COM (Bill Wilhelmi) (04/07/88)

 >
 >Presuming that the battery is a NiCad, that is bad advice.  NiCads develop
 >a memory for how low they have been discharged.  If a battery has not
 >been allowed to discharge very low for a long time, it will take a set
 >and never discharge very low in the future.  You should discharge a NiCad
 >all the way down every three months to maintain its capacity.
 >
 >			David Smith

The battery in the HP 110 and the Portable PLUS is a lead-acid battery.
A lead-acid battery does well if the recharger is left plugged in as much
as possible.  If you ever let the battery get below about 20% without
immediately recharging it, you may snuff the battery for good.  I have
seen many 110s and P+ units where that was the case.  It has happened
to my P+ also.  NiCads on the other hand need to be drained before 
recharging, as mentioned above.  The 9114 disc drive uses a lead-acid
battery but the HP-IL ThinkJet printer uses a NiCad.  You therefore
need to treat those batteries differently.  

Don't let your Portable's battery discharge all the way.  You'll be sorry!
As far as replacing the battery in your Portable, the do-it-yourself method
is not for amateurs.  You need to send the unit to the nearest HP Field
Repair Center.  The documentation for the Portable (in an appendix, I think)
tells you where you can get your Portable repaired.



Bill Wilhelmi    
Hewlett-Packard Company
Corvallis Workstation Operation
Corvallis, Oregon 
______________________________________________________________________________
UUCP:{ihnp4|cbosgd|allegra|decvax|gatech|sun|tektronix}!hplabs!hp-pcd!hpcvlx!bw
Internet:    bw%hpcvlx@hplabs.hp.com 
USnail   : 1000 N.E. Circle Blvd., Corvallis, Oregon, 97330, USA

   

scott@hpcvca.HP.COM (Scott Linn) (04/08/88)

>Presuming that the battery is a NiCad, that is bad advice.  NiCads develop
>a memory for how low they have been discharged.  If a battery has not
>been allowed to discharge very low for a long time, it will take a set
>and never discharge very low in the future.  You should discharge a NiCad
>all the way down every three months to maintain its capacity.
>
>			David Smith
----------

Ah, but the 110 has a lead-acid gel-cell gates battery.  It is *not*
good to discharge this type of battery.  It is best to keep it trickle
charged.

Scott Linn
HP - Northwest IC Division

johne@hpvcla.HP.COM (John Eaton) (04/08/88)

<<<<
<>                                              He suggested that I not
<> let the battery get so low as often, something that I had been doing
<> with the old battery.
<
<Presuming that the battery is a NiCad, that is bad advice.
----------
It's actually a 2.5 Amp hour 6 volt Lead-Acid battery. Lead acid do not like
to be deep discharged so it helps to have a automatic cutoff to protect the
battery after it is discharged. Nicads can take a deep discharge better than
lead acid.


On the other hand Nicads don't like to be overcharged for long periods of
time. That is why Nicad equipment normally recommends that you recharge it
and then disconnect the recharger. Lead acid are far more tolerant to 
overcharge.



John Eaton
!hpvcla!johne

dennett@kodak.UUCP (Charlie Dennett) (04/08/88)

In article <4646@hplabsb.UUCP> dsmith@hplabsb.UUCP (David Smith) writes:
>In article <290001@hpuecoa.HP.COM>, hals@hpuecoa.HP.COM (HAL SHEARER) writes:
>>                                              He suggested that I not
>> let the battery get so low as often, something that I had been doing
>> with the old battery.
>
>Presuming that the battery is a NiCad, that is bad advice.  NiCads develop
>a memory for how low they have been discharged.  

I was under the impression that the batteries in the 110 were gel-cell 
bateries.  Is this so?  Do they have the same memory problem that 
Ni-Cads do?  I've also seen the charge meter get out of sync with the actual
charge level on the batteries.  It's been a while but i think the solution
is to let the batteries sit on the charger long enough so that you are sure
they are at peak charge.  Then push a button that is somewhere on the back 
of the 110.  This will reset the charge meter  back to 99%.  I no longer
have access to an HP110 but I do remember reading about this procedure
in the manual.  (All this was at least two years ago.)

-- 
Charlie Dennett       | UUCP: ...!rutgers!rochester!kodak!dennett
Eastman Kodak Company | Voice: 716-726-4480
901 Elmgrove Road     | Company Mail: Dept 420 Tech. Support B-2/F-1        
Rochester, NY 14650   | Company DECnet: VXMM07::DENNETT

Jeff_LazerWolf_Bristol@cup.portal.com (04/14/88)

Thanks to all the people who helped out with my HP 110 problem and
especially to Bob Kunz of Everett WA.  All is solved and I'm back on
the road.

I ended up using the part numbers given to me for Gates Batteries to order
3 new lead-acid 2 volt batteries. The batteries were $6.95 each.  I then
took the batteries to an electronics store and they installed them for
me for $10.00.

If anyone else has this problem, I would encourage you to do the same
thing and save yourself a bunch of money.

This was my first REAL query on the network and I am amazed at what a
great response I got!

Thanks again!

Jeff Bristol

Jeff_LazerWolf_Bristol@cup.portal.com (04/21/88)

I had a request for the part numbers for the Gates batteries that I 
put in my HP 110 portable, here is the information I received.
Hope this helps, Robert. (I couldnt seem to get through to you via E-Mail)

|The battery is a lead-acid sealed cell (it is 3 "D-sized cells in series) 
|and as such does not suffer from the nickel-cadmium memory problem.  The
|correct way to use the 110 is to keep it fully changed, in fact plugged
|in when you can and do not drain the battery to the point where the 110 
|decides to power down.
|
|The battery is not "user-replaceable", but is easy enough to do anyways.
|
|We sell the battery at an exhorbitant fee because it has a custom connecting
|system.  The cells are from Gates.  You can remove the battery and replace
|the individual cells if you like.  The Gates number is 0810-0004.  It is a
|2 volt 2.5 Amp-Hour cell (you'll need 3).  You'll need to solder the new 
|cells in place after clipping the old ones out.  You can also buy the cells
|put together from Gates with their PN 0810-0216 and re-use the plastic piece
|from your old batteries.  The HP part number for the battery pack is 1420-0329.
|
|>From your desciption the battery is indeed dead and you cannot revive it.
|It has lived it's life and should be retired.
|
|Bob Kunz                       hplsla!bobk
|Hewlett-Packard                        AT&T 206-335-2135
|Lake Stevens Division
|8600 Soper Hill Rd.
|Everett, WA 98205
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Bristol