burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (05/02/89)
I have been hearing rumors of new HP support services being
in the works. Since the guys at HP are tinkering, I have a
suggestion to make: I would like to be able to tell HP that
I want all HP hardware and software to be on service
contract, now and forever. This means that instead of
sending a contract proposal yearly, they would instead send
an invoice and a letter describing the contract with a "you
have 30 days to cancel this contract before" clause. If I
were to add hardware or software, a small addendum bill would
be sent out automatically to cover the period from purchase
to the main contract start date. It seems to me that a
computer company could handle this pretty easily. We would
be willing to pay reasonable costs for this service. Any
responses from the HP guys, or users in general?
*********************************************************************
Tony Burzio * I hate paperwork! !krowrepap etah I
Martin Marietta Labs *
mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net *
*********************************************************************gentry@kcdev.UUCP (Art Gentry) (05/03/89)
In article <547@mmlai.UUCP>, burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) writes: > > I have been hearing rumors of new HP support services being > in the works. Since the guys at HP are tinkering, I have a > suggestion to make: I would like to be able to tell HP that > I want all HP hardware and software to be on service > contract, now and forever. This means that instead of > sending a contract proposal yearly, they would instead send > an invoice and a letter describing the contract with a "you > have 30 days to cancel this contract before" clause. If I > were to add hardware or software, a small addendum bill would > be sent out automatically to cover the period from purchase > to the main contract start date. It seems to me that a > computer company could handle this pretty easily. We would > be willing to pay reasonable costs for this service. Any > responses from the HP guys, or users in general? > I have had this option in effect for a couple of years now. Currently, when issuing a new contract, at first renewal date, I get a letter stating that I can request that HP only invoice me at each renewal, instead of sending out a new contract for approval. Works quite well. We always pay our maintenance contracts 1 year ahead to lock in prices, and changes inbetween are very easy. My contact is in the St. Paul, MN office and is a very nice lady to work with. Now, if HP could only get the quality into the software support itself that they have in the invoicing, we'd really have something! (are you listening guys and gals?) Art System Administrator for 1 - HP9000/850 3 - HP1000/F 14 - HP150/II 21 - AT&T 3B2/various
gates@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Bill Gates) (05/04/89)
Tony, I like your suggestion very much. Unfortunately, I am not directly involved with controlling these things. However, I believe I know a couple of people who are. I am forwarding your note to them. Thanks, Bill Gates
jp@hpuepta.UUCP (John Pezzano) (05/04/89)
> I have been hearing rumors of new HP support services being > in the works. Since the guys at HP are tinkering, I have a > suggestion to make: I would like to be able to tell HP that > I want all HP hardware and software to be on service > contract, now and forever. This means that instead of We do have that. It is called an Evergreen contract. HP has had that for a couple of years now. Talk to your contracts person at HP. JohnP
gates@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Bill Gates) (05/05/89)
>Now, if HP could only get the quality into the software support itself that >they have in the invoicing, we'd really have something! (are you listening >guys and gals?) Indeed we are (I am currently involved in an off-line support capacity, but I still snap to attention when I see statements like these). Could you be more specific here? In what way was your software support inadequate? What could we do or change to avoid those shortcomings in the future? Thanks for any feedback you can provide. Bill Gates HP-UX Offline Tech Support (for one more month) 303-229-3822 (call me if you'd like)
burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (05/06/89)
In article <5570171@hpfcdc.HP.COM>, gates@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Bill Gates) writes: > >Now, if HP could only get the quality into the software support itself that > >they have in the invoicing, we'd really have something! (are you listening > >guys and gals?) > > Indeed we are (I am currently involved in an off-line support capacity, but > I still snap to attention when I see statements like these). Could you > be more specific here? In what way was your software support inadequate? > What could we do or change to avoid those shortcomings in the future? > > Thanks for any feedback you can provide. The people at the response center in Atlanta are REAL nice, and try very hard. Most problems are solved with the first call. I have noticed, however, that X Window System calls require weeks to complete, with most being pumped back to the factory for help. I have a list of 6 X bugs waiting in the queue for the response center to finish with my call about the static raster widget not working. Could HP get an X guru assigned to the response center? ********************************************************************* Tony Burzio * I have 2 HPs with more processing power Martin Marietta Labs * than our whole Computer Center VAX herd mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net * combined :-) *********************************************************************
uccjcm@ecsvax.UUCP (John McLendon) (05/08/89)
In article <549@mmlai.UUCP> burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) writes: >In article <5570171@hpfcdc.HP.COM>, gates@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Bill Gates) writes: >> >Now, if HP could only get the quality into the software support itself that >hard. Most problems are solved with the first call. I have noticed, >however, that X Window System calls require weeks to complete, with most >being pumped back to the factory for help. I have a list of 6 X bugs waiting >in the queue for the response center to finish with my call about the static >raster widget not working. Could HP get an X guru assigned to the response >center? I too have several X bugs in the queue... Perhaps we could get together here and report them to each other, provide workarounds, etc. I, for one, fail to see why I should be paying for what is essentially a beta test service for hp. That is not to say that support services isn't helpful for general problems, but for me, all it's been is X bugs in the hp widget set. Documented, verifiable bugs. Let's get with it guys. ... On another note, has anyone else noticed the slow server response for hp machines under X (HP-UX 6.2)? I run a 360 with 8 meg and lot's of swap space, 1024x768 4-plane color, etc. When I run phoon it takes more than 10 seconds to come up. When we connected one of these new X terminals (I forget which one) to the same machine, it came up in under 2 seconds. It's not due to the color card either, the mono box does the same. Also, has anyone noticed the 1.2 meg ipc (shared memory) space X allocates when run. Why is it so big? ... And while I'm complaining, why does it take so long to create widgets from the hp widget set. I have what I consider to be a moderate application with around 1000 widget instantiations, primarily push button and menu buttons in cascades on about fifteen forms. I found that in order to get acceptable performance when actually running the application, it was necessary to create all widgets ahead of time and then manage and unmanage them when called. The problem is that the application takes about four minutes to start up. It also takes about 3 meg of memory. I'm doing all the normal speed up stuff that I can think of. Anybody got any helpful hints? John... -- Signed: John McLendon uunet\ (919) 846-7931 (home) >mcnc!ecsvax!uccjcm (919) 941-5730 (play) gatech/
chan@hpfcmgw.HP.COM (Chan Benson) (05/09/89)
> And while I'm complaining, why does it take so long to create widgets > from the hp widget set. I have what I consider to be a moderate application > with around 1000 widget instantiations, primarily push button and > menu buttons in cascades on about fifteen forms. I found that in order to get > acceptable performance when actually running the application, it was necessary > to create all widgets ahead of time and then manage and unmanage them when > called. The problem is that the application takes about four minutes to > start up. It also takes about 3 meg of memory. I'm doing all the normal > speed up stuff that I can think of. Anybody got any helpful hints? This is not an HP specific problem. In fact, if you want to complain, talk to the people at DEC's Western Research Lab who designed and wrote the stuff. Make sure to ask them how they like programming in C. If you've ever delved into the Xtk internals you'd go gaack! Try profiling a widget program and see how many times malloc and free get called. Help is sort of on the way in the form of gadgets (windowless widgets). Other people listening may have specific suggestions for you, but it sounds like you've already discovered the manage/unmanage trick. As far as other problems, post away. I can't guarantee that I or anyone else will be able to answer them, but it can't hurt *as long as you are also pursuing them through the normal channels*. -- Chan Benson HP Fort Collins chan@hpfcmi.HP.COM you think I'd put my phone number here?
scott@grlab.UUCP (Scott Blachowicz) (05/10/89)
/ grlab:comp.sys.hp / burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) / 6:56 am May 6, 1989 / > The people at the response center in Atlanta are REAL nice, and try very > hard. Most problems are solved with the first call. I have noticed, > however, that X Window System calls require weeks to complete, with most > being pumped back to the factory for help. I have a list of 6 X bugs waiting > in the queue for the response center to finish with my call about the static > raster widget not working. Could HP get an X guru assigned to the response > center? Our problem is that we're technically able to track down a good deal of the problems ourselves. By the time we give up and give the response center a call, we're usually over the heads of most of the engineers that we deal with (Santa Clara or Mountain View or whatever Response Center). We usually end up finding and fixing the problem ourselves before the "factory" has a chance to respond. If we locate the problem as an HP bug, it doesn't seem to do much good to tell the Response Center because we'll have to go through the hastle of supplying source code for them to duplicate the problem only have to have it drop into the black hole (i.e. STARS/Marketing review). We have gotten responses for a few of the bug reports 6-12 months after reporting them (they landed in Marketing or Lab Review...by which time they are 2 or 3 revs out of date) Actually, there have been a some times when they've been very helpful and patient. (we recently had some LAN problems where a pair of systems would talk; we added a couple systems; the pair wouldn't talk; we took the new systems off the net; still no talking; shuffle some more wiring/connections/etc; talk; no talk; at any rate, we ended up deciding to replace one of the LAN cards...no more problems). Overall, we just tend to avoid the hastle of dealing with the Response Center...and mostly have for the past 3 years or so. I'm not sure what can be done unless "guru" types can be kept in online support... Now that that's been vented, it's back to work I go... Scott Blachowicz USPS: Graphicus UUCP: ...!hpubvwa!grlab!scott 150 Lake Str S, #206 VoicePh: 206/828-4691 Kirkland, WA 98033 FAX: 206/828-4236
stroyan@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Mike Stroyan) (05/10/89)
>Also, has anyone noticed the 1.2 meg ipc (shared memory) space X allocates >when run? Why is it so big? The shared memory segment that you see is actually the memory mapped frame buffer. The mapping mechanism is currently via the shared memory subsystem. It doesn't consume any system memory or swap space. Mike Stroyan, stroyan@hpfcla.hp.com