[comp.sys.hp] Today ??

dan@blender.UUCP (Dan Keizer) (11/19/89)

After learning Speedware 4GL I'm starting to get involved with bbj's
Today 4GL language.  As far as I can see, it has a rather slow process
for creating programs.  All are screen-entered.  I have heard "rumours"
that the new/newer version will have the possibility of a full-screen
editor.  Wow, eh?  This is one of those languages that provides you with
a complete programming environment ... to the point where it even provides
you with menus to program with! ick.  But, is anyone else using or has used
this language, and how did they like it.  Speedware seems to have more
flexibility ... I may have to choose which one I want to use ... any
other comments/questions/horror stories would be helpful.
Thanks.
Dan.

-- 
Dan Keizer
UUCP: ...!uunet!{ubc-cs|watmath}!calgary!xenlink!blender!dan

djw@hpldsla.HP.COM (11/29/89)

> After learning Speedware 4GL I'm starting to get involved with bbj's
> Today 4GL language.  As far as I can see, it has a rather slow process
> for creating programs.  All are screen-entered.  I have heard "rumours"
> that the new/newer version will have the possibility of a full-screen
> editor.  Wow, eh?  

If you have  used  BBJ/Today  and you are on HP  equipment,  you
might try looking at "HP  ALLBASE/4GL".  I worked fairly closely
with both  BBJ/Today  and  ALLBASE/4GL  for a while, and thought
'4GL was pretty good.

ALLBASE/4GL has a lot in common with BBJ/Today  (ALLBASE/4GL was
once called  HPtoday!), it provides  essentially  all of Today's
good  features,  and may  address  the  concerns  that you  have
mentioned - and it's from HP! :-)

> This is one of those languages that provides you with
> a complete programming environment ... to the point where it even provides
> you with menus to program with! ick.  

'4GL  also  provides  the  complete   programming   environment,
although I found  '4GL's user  interface  to be far  superior to
Today's.  '4GL has these awesome screen and report painters!  It
also makes  really  good use of  terminfo  stuff,  and has great
support for terminals with function keys, color, etc..

In addition to the 'packaged'  programming  environment, you can
dump anything  from the system into an ascii file.  Then you can
edit it, and load it back in.  So you  don't  have to deal  with
the  'environment' if you don't want to.  In general I found the
ALLBASE  environment  pretty  easy to use, but  sometimes I just
wanted  an ascii  file so that I could  grep on the  source  (or
whatever).  That's when I used the dump feature.

As an  aside,  I used  this  dump/load  thing  to  automatically
generate  application  definitions  from my database  SQL schema
(using  a big  shell/awk  script).  It  saved a lot of  mindless
typing!

On this line,  ALLBASE/4GL has an automatic code generater.  You
punch in your data dictionary  stuff for a file (like in Today),
then fill in the module  builder  form, push the 'go' button and
it  creates an  application  module:  screen(s),  logic code and
messages.  It's really  quick for getting  modules up an running
quickly.

The module builder works from 'module templates' to generate the
code.  The ones that are  supplied  are pretty  bad, so the code
(the  logic  code) that is  generated  is pretty  bad.  The good
thing is you can redefine the  templates to suit your own needs.
Once you do this, the module builder is great.

> But, is anyone else using or has used this language, and how did
> they like it.

Like I say, I used Today, but I liked ALLBASE/4GL  more.  I also
looked  at  Speedware,   but  I  couldn't   provide  any  strong
comparison either way.

Hope the information helps some.

David Williams
_______________________________________________
Hewlett-Packard Scientific Instruments Division
Palo Alto, CA, USA.
HP-UX Mail:  djw@hpldsla.hp.com