arne@yc.estec.nl (Arne Lundberg) (11/30/89)
HP is rumoured to ship MOTIF, at least the motif window manager, with their next release of HP-UX. The 7.0 version of X11 from HP will be based on X11R3, it is to bad that MIT will release X11R4 before I will get HP-UX 7.0 My question is: How much of the MOTIF stuff will be shipped with HP's X distribution. Will it be the same as with plain X, that many useful parts of the original distribution are left out? In case HP will supply us with the MOTIF Widget set, how will they handle compatibility with existing programs using the HP X Widgets? Arne Lundberg European Space Technology Centre, Noordwijk, the Netherlands arne@yc.estec.nl or ALUNDBER@ESTEC.BITNET Phone: +31 1719 84865, Fax: +31 1719 12142, Telex: 39098
harry@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) (12/05/89)
> My question is: How much of the MOTIF stuff will be shipped with > HP's X distribution. The HP-UX 7.0 release includes the OSF/Motif window manager, toolkit, and widget set. It does not include UIL, as the UIL code was not product quality by the time the HP-UX 7.0 functionality was frozen. > In case HP will supply us with the MOTIF Widget set, how > will they handle compatibility with existing programs using the > HP X Widgets? > Arne Lundberg Also included with HP-UX 7.0 is the old libXt.a (now called libXtR2.a) and libXw.a. These are shipped in a seperate fileset within the release along with the old libXr11.a. Harry Phinney harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (12/08/89)
In article <101950067@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com>, harry@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes: > The HP-UX 7.0 release includes the OSF/Motif window manager, toolkit, > and widget set. It does not include UIL, as the UIL code was not > product quality by the time the HP-UX 7.0 functionality was frozen. I saw a demo of an unnamed product that uses UIL at the local HP shop. The software allows you to interactive build X applications/interfaces. For example, you click on bulletin board and one pops up. You can then place pushbuttons and other such widgets around to your liking. Each widget can be programmed using a widget interface for callbacks, etc. After you are done, it will write out the C source code!!! The demonstrator wrote a small X application in MINUTES!!! This product is about the neatest thing I have seen in X. It is in beta test, for delivery next year. Please, oh please, HP, hurry this one along! Think terms like RELVOLUTIONARY, MAC BASHING, that kind of stuff! I know I'm going to stop writing X code until this is out, since I'll be able to catch up with this tool, EVEN IF IT IS RELEASED A YEAR FROM NOW! ********************************************************************* Tony Burzio * Soon! Martin Marietta Labs * Aww Mom! mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net * *********************************************************************
mayer@hplabsz.HPL.HP.COM (Niels Mayer) (12/09/89)
In article <623@mmlai.UUCP> burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) writes: >I saw a demo of an unnamed product that uses UIL at the local HP shop. The >software allows you to interactive build X applications/interfaces. For >example, you click on bulletin board and one pops up. You can then place >pushbuttons and other such widgets around to your liking. Each widget >can be programmed using a widget interface for callbacks, etc. After >you are done, it will write out the C source code!!! The demonstrator >wrote a small X application in MINUTES!!! > I can't comment on the unnamed product mentioned above, but If you want help prototyping Motif user interfaces using a tool that is available NOW, runs FAST, is FREE (X11r4 contrib tape), and can be used as an embedded customization language in products (free of charge modulo MIT X11r4 copyright restrictions)... keep on reading. WINTERP is a rapid prototyping, development and delivery enviropnment for building complex, customizable applications. It uses the OSF Motif Toolkit, which is based on the X11 Xtoolkit intrinsics. WINTERP contains a small lisp interpreter which is based on the popular XLISP interpreter (comp.lang.lisp.x). Infact the name "WINTERP" is just an abbreviation for "Widget INTERPreter". As an application prototyping environment, WINTERP is akin to a graphical gnuemacs in that it uses a mini-lisp interpreter to glue together various C-Implemented primitive operations. In gnuemacs, these operations consist mostly of manipulating text within editor buffers -- infact text-buffers are a "first-class" type in gnuemacs. WINTERP makes the widget a first class type, and represents them as real objects using the XLISP object system (a smalltalk-like object system). The syntax resulting from marrying XLISP objects and Motif widgets is far cleaner than UIL, using straight C, etc. Furthermore, since WINTERP is interactive, you can try out small changes incrementally, and modify the look and functionality of an application on-the-fly. A very useful interactive primitive, 'get_moused_widget' allows you to send arbitrary messages to widgets just by pointing at them with the mouse. WINTERP contains an interface to the gnuemacs editor. One may type winterp-lisp forms into a 'lisp-mode' buffer/file, and then issue a simple editor command to send the form to WINTERP's lisp-listenter for evaluation. Winterp does not require the use of gnuemacs -- An editor interface might be possible from VI as well. WINTERP's lisp-listener is infact a TCP socket, which means that you can easily allow other processes to talk to a WINTERP-based application. Thus WINTERP applications implicitly provide an extensible, flexible and easy-to-use "remote procedure call" mechanism as an aid to building integrated programming environments. The WINTERP source distribution contains a simple client program, 'wl' which sends the winterp-lisp forms on it's command line off to WINTERP's lisp listener. ---------- WINTERP makes extensive use of XLISP's Smalltalk-like extensions for object oriented programming: All the Motif widget classes are actually implemented as XLISP classes, Xtoolkit functions become methods on the widget base class. Motif "Convenience Functions" become methods on particular classes. Because Motif Classes look like normal XLISP classes inside WINTERP, you may extend the functionality of existing widget classes in Lisp via subclassing, or by adding new methods to existing widget classes. Example -- evaluating the following form in WINTERP results in the display of a "hello world" window which sends me mail and prints "hello world" on stdout each time the button is clicked: (let* ((top_w (send TOP_LEVEL_SHELL_WIDGET_CLASS :new :XMN_TITLE "hello world" ;note auto string->XmString conv :XMN_ICON_NAME "hello world")) ;ditto (but_w (send XM_PUSH_BUTTON_WIDGET_CLASS :new :managed top_w :XMN_FOREGROUND "red" ;note auto string->Pixel conv :XMN_BACKGROUND "black" :XMN_FONT_LIST "8x16")) ;note auto string->FontList cv ) (send but_w :add_callback :XMN_ARM_CALLBACK '() '((system "echo \"Hello World Run!\" | mailx mayer@hplabs.hp.com") (format t "hello world\n"))) (send top_w :realize) ) Once the "hello world" window is displayed, you can interactively modify the look and the functionality of the interface. For example, lets say I want to change the color of a widget on the display -- I give WINTERP the following command: (send (get_moused_widget) :set_values :XMN_FOREGROUND "white" :XMN_BACKGROUND "blue") and then click on the pushbutton widget created above. One can use the same technique to interactively change a widget's callbacks, eventhandlers, etc. For further information, take a look at the WINTERP source distribution's "examples" directory. Interesting mini-applications include a bitmap browser, a MH-based mail browser, and a grep-based file search browser. Other examples show you how to contruct menus, radio-boxes, etc. ---------- WINTERP source is available via anonymous ftp from expo.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/winterp.tar.Z (source + example files). WINTERP executables for HPUX are available from expo.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/winterp.binary/{hpux-s300.tar.Z,hpux-s800.tar.Z}. (Note that the Motif widgets (and WINTERP) expect you to use an ICCCM-compliant window manager such as MWM, GWM, or the X11r4 twm... you may get strange results with other window managers). For those of you that don't have internet access, you have three options: (1) wait till the X11r4 tape is released. (2) wait till I send winterp sources to comp.sources.x (3) send me mail, and I can mail the sources to you; Please note that the compressed tar file of the winterp source distribution is approx 600kbytes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Niels Mayer -- hplabs!mayer -- mayer@hplabs.hp.com Human-Computer Interaction Department Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto, CA. *
mayer@hplabsz.HPL.HP.COM (Niels Mayer) (12/11/89)
[this posting didn't make it out of HP the first time, so here goes again...] In article <623@mmlai.UUCP> burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) writes: >I saw a demo of an unnamed product that uses UIL at the local HP shop. The >software allows you to interactive build X applications/interfaces. For >example, you click on bulletin board and one pops up. You can then place >pushbuttons and other such widgets around to your liking. Each widget >can be programmed using a widget interface for callbacks, etc. After >you are done, it will write out the C source code!!! The demonstrator >wrote a small X application in MINUTES!!! > I can't comment on the unnamed product mentioned above, but If you want help prototyping Motif user interfaces using a tool that is available NOW, runs FAST, is FREE (X11r4 contrib tape), and can be used as an embedded customization language in products (free of charge modulo MIT X11r4 copyright restrictions)... keep on reading. WINTERP is a rapid prototyping, development and delivery enviropnment for building complex, customizable applications. It uses the OSF Motif Toolkit, which is based on the X11 Xtoolkit intrinsics. WINTERP contains a small lisp interpreter which is based on the popular XLISP interpreter (comp.lang.lisp.x). Infact the name "WINTERP" is just an abbreviation for "Widget INTERPreter". As an application prototyping environment, WINTERP is akin to a graphical gnuemacs in that it uses a mini-lisp interpreter to glue together various C-Implemented primitive operations. In gnuemacs, these operations consist mostly of manipulating text within editor buffers -- infact text-buffers are a "first-class" type in gnuemacs. WINTERP makes the widget a first class type, and represents them as real objects using the XLISP object system (a smalltalk-like object system). The syntax resulting from marrying XLISP objects and Motif widgets is far cleaner than UIL, using straight C, etc. Furthermore, since WINTERP is interactive, you can try out small changes incrementally, and modify the look and functionality of an application on-the-fly. A very useful interactive primitive, 'get_moused_widget' allows you to send arbitrary messages to widgets just by pointing at them with the mouse. WINTERP contains an interface to the gnuemacs editor. One may type winterp-lisp forms into a 'lisp-mode' buffer/file, and then issue a simple editor command to send the form to WINTERP's lisp-listenter for evaluation. Winterp does not require the use of gnuemacs -- An editor interface might be possible from VI as well. WINTERP's lisp-listener is infact a TCP socket, which means that you can easily allow other processes to talk to a WINTERP-based application. Thus WINTERP applications implicitly provide an extensible, flexible and easy-to-use "remote procedure call" mechanism as an aid to building integrated programming environments. The WINTERP source distribution contains a simple client program, 'wl' which sends the winterp-lisp forms on it's command line off to WINTERP's lisp listener. ---------- WINTERP makes extensive use of XLISP's Smalltalk-like extensions for object oriented programming: All the Motif widget classes are actually implemented as XLISP classes, Xtoolkit functions become methods on the widget base class. Motif "Convenience Functions" become methods on particular classes. Because Motif Classes look like normal XLISP classes inside WINTERP, you may extend the functionality of existing widget classes in Lisp via subclassing, or by adding new methods to existing widget classes. Example -- evaluating the following form in WINTERP results in the display of a "hello world" window which sends me mail and prints "hello world" on stdout each time the button is clicked: (let* ((top_w (send TOP_LEVEL_SHELL_WIDGET_CLASS :new :XMN_TITLE "hello world" ;note auto string->XmString conv :XMN_ICON_NAME "hello world")) ;ditto (but_w (send XM_PUSH_BUTTON_WIDGET_CLASS :new :managed top_w :XMN_FOREGROUND "red" ;note auto string->Pixel conv :XMN_BACKGROUND "black" :XMN_FONT_LIST "8x16")) ;note auto string->FontList cv ) (send but_w :add_callback :XMN_ARM_CALLBACK '() '((system "echo \"Hello World Run!\" | mailx mayer@hplabs.hp.com") (format t "hello world\n"))) (send top_w :realize) ) Once the "hello world" window is displayed, you can interactively modify the look and the functionality of the interface. For example, lets say I want to change the color of a widget on the display -- I give WINTERP the following command: (send (get_moused_widget) :set_values :XMN_FOREGROUND "white" :XMN_BACKGROUND "blue") and then click on the pushbutton widget created above. One can use the same technique to interactively change a widget's callbacks, eventhandlers, etc. For further information, take a look at the WINTERP source distribution's "examples" directory. Interesting mini-applications include a bitmap browser, a MH-based mail browser, and a grep-based file search browser. Other examples show you how to contruct menus, radio-boxes, etc. ---------- WINTERP source is available via anonymous ftp from expo.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/winterp.tar.Z (source + example files). WINTERP executables for HPUX are available from expo.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/winterp.binary/{hpux-s300.tar.Z,hpux-s800.tar.Z}. (Note that the Motif widgets (and WINTERP) expect you to use an ICCCM-compliant window manager such as MWM, GWM, or the X11r4 twm... you may get strange results with other window managers). For those of you that don't have internet access, you have three options: (1) wait till the X11r4 tape is released. (2) wait till I send winterp sources to comp.sources.x (3) send me mail, and I can mail the sources to you; Please note that the compressed tar file of the winterp source distribution is approx 600kbytes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Niels Mayer -- hplabs!mayer -- mayer@hplabs.hp.com Human-Computer Interaction Department Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto, CA. *
chan@hpfcmgw.HP.COM (Chan Benson) (12/12/89)
> I saw a demo of an unnamed product that uses UIL at the local HP shop. The > software allows you to interactive build X applications/interfaces. For > example, you click on bulletin board and one pops up. You can then place > pushbuttons and other such widgets around to your liking. Each widget > can be programmed using a widget interface for callbacks, etc. After > you are done, it will write out the C source code!!! The demonstrator > wrote a small X application in MINUTES!!! While this tool does indeed exist and is a great way of getting a Motif application going in very little time, it does not use UIL. Glad to hear that real customers are enthused about it. -- Chan Benson HP Fort Collins
tay@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Mike Taylor) (12/12/89)
>> The HP-UX 7.0 release includes the OSF/Motif window manager, toolkit, >> and widget set. It does not include UIL, as the UIL code was not >> product quality by the time the HP-UX 7.0 functionality was frozen. > >I saw a demo of an unnamed product that uses UIL at the local HP shop. The >software allows you to interactive build X applications/interfaces. For >example, you click on bulletin board and one pops up. You can then place >pushbuttons and other such widgets around to your liking. Each widget >can be programmed using a widget interface for callbacks, etc. After >you are done, it will write out the C source code!!! The demonstrator >wrote a small X application in MINUTES!!! If you are speaking of UIMX which I assume you must be, then you are incorrect (mis-informed?) in stating that the product uses UIL. >This product is about the neatest thing I have seen in X. It is in >beta test, for delivery next year. Please, oh please, HP, hurry this one >along! Think terms like RELVOLUTIONARY, MAC BASHING, that kind of stuff! > >I know I'm going to stop writing X code until this is out, since I'll be >able to catch up with this tool, EVEN IF IT IS RELEASED A YEAR FROM NOW! Now that is what I call a testimonial! We are working out the bugs... Mike Taylor UIMX Team CIS UI Technical Support Hewlett-Packard