neil@yc.estec.nl (Neil Dixon) (12/04/89)
I am currently writing an application that mixes HP Starbase graphics and X. Our target machine is an 835 SRX machine (98721). Several questions arise:- 1) Accelerated graphics using the 98721 cannot be performed within an X window. The suggested solution is to run X in the overlay planes, and have the accelerated graphics run in the image planes, with a 'transparent' X window suitable placed. Could some HP person tell me if this is likely to change in future releases of the system, or is it some restriction due to the hardware involved? 2) Given 1), I have to ensure that the 'Transparent' colour is always available in the colormap for the overlay planes. How do I do this, given that we are running xdm? I.e. can I force the colormap to contain transparent without changing the colormap from within my application. 3) According to the documentation, the colormap for the overlay planes only supports the 3 primary and seconday colours, plus black & white. Again, is this a hardware restriction, or is it likely to change in future releases? It would be nice to have softer colours available for the windows in the overlay planes, rather than the garish ones available now. -- Neil Dixon <neil@yc.estec.nl> UUCP:...!mcvax!esatst!neil, BITNET: NDIXON@ESTEC Thermal Control & Life Support Division (YC) European Space Research and Technology Centre (ESTEC), Noordwijk, The Netherlands.
icsu6000@caesar (Jaye Mathisen) (12/05/89)
In article <1052@esatst.yc.estec.nl> neil@esatst.UUCP (Neil Dixon) writes: >I am currently writing an application that mixes HP Starbase graphics >and X. Our target machine is an 835 SRX machine (98721). Several >questions arise:- > >1) Accelerated graphics using the 98721 cannot be performed within an >X window. The suggested solution is to run X in the overlay planes, This is true. According to one person I spoke with at HP, he said that SRX box would never support the accelerated graphics in X. He did say that the TSRX (turbo-SRX) does support the fast hardware. Part of the explanation was that X works best with a simple, dumb frame-buffer, and that having the graphics pipeline in the path complicated the situation considerably. What I don't understand is why the SRX can't be used with X, but the TSRX can be. What's so different about the SRX that it just doesn't work? Oh well. It's still great stuff. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jaye Mathisen,systems manager Internet: icsu6000@caesar.cs.montana.edu| | 410 Roberts Hall BITNET: icsu6000@mtsunix1.bitnet | | Dept. of Computer Science UUCP: utah-gr!mts-cs!icsu6000 |
oscarh@hpdml93.HP.COM (Oscar Herrera) (12/05/89)
Check out the latest HP Journal. It is dedicated to discussions about the Starbase/X merger.
steve@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Steve Hiebert) (12/06/89)
> 1) Accelerated graphics using the 98721 cannot be performed within > an X window. The suggested solution is to run X in the overlay > planes, and have the accelerated graphics run in the image planes, > with a 'transparent' X window suitable placed. Could some HP person > tell me if this is likely to change in future releases of the > system, or is it some restriction due to the hardware involved? It's a hardware restriction. When using the accelerator on a 98720/98721 SRX, X cannot control where the drawing takes place. The 98730/98731 TSRX has hardware clipping support and multiple accelerators to allow multiple/obscurable/movable/accelerated (MOMA) windows. Support for combined image and overlay windows (i.e., multiple visuals on the same screen) on the TSRX began as of HP-UX 6.5. > 2) Given 1), I have to ensure that the 'Transparent' colour is > always available in the colormap for the overlay planes. How do I > do this, given that we are running xdm? I.e. can I force the > colormap to contain transparent without changing the colormap from > within my application. It's a color just like any other color. You probably could write a client that sets its resources to RetainPermanent and allocates transparent as a read only colormap entry. If another colormap is installed, you will most likely lose your transparent color until your original map is re-installed > 3) According to the documentation, the colormap for the overlay > planes only supports the 3 primary and secondary colours, plus black > & white. Again, is this a hardware restriction, or is it likely to > change in future releases? It would be nice to have softer colours > available for the windows in the overlay planes, rather than the > garish ones available now. Hmm, I would have thought it would be 5 colors + transparent + black + white. Is the documentation saying 3 primary + 3 secondary + black + white? The overlay planes are 3 bits deep on the SRX which gives the hardware limit of 8 colors. The bits do not feed into a lookup table - they are fed directly to the CRT guns. We special case the transparent color (0,0,1) and use it to set the overlays to subordinate + black (the overlays blend with the image planes when subordinate). The thinking was that, given the hardware limits, (0,0,1) is indistinguishable from (0,0,0) anyway and so could be used to trigger transparency. Steve Hiebert Hewlett-Packard Co. Disclaimer: I am speaking for myself and not for Hewlett-Packard Co.
chien@iitmax.IIT.EDU (Greg Chien) (12/06/89)
In article <15520003@hpdml93.HP.COM>, oscarh@hpdml93.HP.COM (Oscar Herrera) writes: > Check out the latest HP Journal. It is dedicated to discussions about > the Starbase/X merger. Would like to know more about the Journal. Is it an HP publication? How does one subscribe it? (Lots of questions??) Greg Chien Manager, Design Processes Laboratory Institute of Design Illinois Institute of Technology chien@iitmax.iit.edu
tomg@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Thomas J. Gilg) (12/08/89)
> Would like to know more about the Journal. Is it an HP publication? > How does one subscribe it? (Lots of questions??) On the back cover, I see: "To subscribe, change your address, or delete your name from our mailing list, send your request to Hewlett-Packard Journal, 3200 Hillview Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94304 U.S.A. Include your old address label, if any. Allow 60 days." Front inside: "The Hewlett-Packard Journal is distributed free of charge to HP research, design, and manufacturing engineering personnel, as well as to qualified non-HP individuals, libraries, and educational institutions. Please address subscription or change of address requests on printed letterhead (or include a business card)......" Thomas Gilg tomg@cv.hp.com
ken@hpubrcf.HP.COM (Ken Green) (12/11/89)
HP-UX 3.1 supports merged starbase/X. This allows full function accerelerated starbase whilst running X-Windows ( it must be the X11R2 shipped by HP ). You just create a window, call make_X11_gopen_string ( or use /usr/bin/X11/xwcreate). Then use gopen with the normal hp98721 driver. The Starbase Programming with X11 manual should explain the rest. Ken Green
brown@hpfcdq.HP.COM (John Brown) (12/16/89)
I am sure others will point this out, too, but to avoid confusion . . . > HP-UX 3.1 supports merged starbase/X. This allows full function > accerelerated starbase whilst running X-Windows ( it must be the > X11R2 shipped by HP ). Yes, except see below . . . > > You just create a window, call make_X11_gopen_string ( or use > /usr/bin/X11/xwcreate). Then use gopen with the normal hp98721 > driver. No! This is not supported with the hp98721 (accelerated SRX) driver. > > The Starbase Programming with X11 manual should explain the rest. It does. On page 4-21, "Use of Starbase Graphics Accelerators": . . . The HP98721A accelerator is not supported by Starbase within an X11 window; it can, however, be used to accelerate raw mode graphics in the image planes with the X11 server in overlay mode. > Ken Green John Brown Graphics Technology Division
burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (12/19/89)
In article <350022@hpfcdq.HP.COM>, brown@hpfcdq.HP.COM (John Brown) writes: > . . . The HP98721A accelerator is not supported by Starbase within an > X11 window; it can, however, be used to accelerate raw mode graphics in the > image planes with the X11 server in overlay mode. I have been looking at Silicon Graphics computers lately and I am much more impressed by their handling of 3D objects in EVERY window, not just the 8 MOMA windows of my TurboSRX. In addition, when I use 3D acceleration on my TSRX, I use the overlay planes, which limits my color choices severely (16?) Bleech! To really be useful, the SuperChargedSRX (the next SRX?) should have a full 256 color choices in the overlay planes. Perhaps the CH hardware can be moved over and merged with the SRX? ********************************************************************* Tony Burzio * 2 Days 'till skiing! Martin Marietta Labs * :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net * *********************************************************************
tomg@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Thomas J. Gilg) (12/22/89)
> I have been looking at Silicon Graphics computers lately and I am > much more impressed by their handling of 3D objects in EVERY window, > not just the 8 MOMA windows of my TurboSRX. In addition, when I use > 3D acceleration on my TSRX, I use the overlay planes, which limits > my color choices severely (16?) Bleech! > > To really be useful, the SuperChargedSRX (the next SRX?) should have > a full 256 color choices in the overlay planes. Perhaps the CH hardware > can be moved over and merged with the SRX? > > ********************************************************************* > Tony Burzio * 2 Days 'till skiing! > Martin Marietta Labs * :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) > mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net * > ********************************************************************* I agree with your 256-overlay observation. Actually, an image plane model that supports multiple colormaps (and multiple-depths) would be even better (humm....). As for the TSRX limits, the X/Starbase merge team (Corvallis and Fort Collins) had some interesting problems to deal with. Display subsystems such as the TSRX were designed _before_ windowing systems such a X11 took off. Now we're trying to wedge the X11 technology on hardware that was designed for single Starbase applications or simpler HP Windows/9000 scenarios. Per the base note, we didn't have big enough wedge to get accelerated SRX in a window :-( Needless to say, the design of future HP hardware is taking all these rough edges into account. BTW - what other vendors provide fully accelerated 3D graphics support in an X11 window system including CORE, GKS, CGI (~HP Starbase), PHIGS ? An aside - who out there is using the various modes for TSRX (image, overlay, stacked, and combined), and what do you think of their usefulness ? Any of these modes strike you as "wonderful", a must have ? Thomas Gilg * 2 Days 'till fishing ! tomg@cv.hp.com