burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (01/08/90)
We are a site currently running VAX/VMS from Digital, but are trying to switch to UNIX. Unfortunately, we have a great many DEC LAT termservers and can't replace them. To our pleasure, Ki Research was to offer a LAT driver and DECnet capability for HP-UX. A call from a distraught Ki Research person on Friday gave me a pain. It seems that HP refuses to cooperate with them in releasing their software in the HP-UX environment. They plead something about "possible unknown effects" to other software, even though Ki has ported to all the other UNIX platforms (even IBM cooperated) and should very well know about side effects. The deal is, Ki will need to buy an HP workstation (other vendors supply them free, they understand the importance of the port), HP will supply a patch to the ETHERNET driver, then HP will not allow sale of this patch if they don't feel like it. What a terrible restriction! Now, I know HP offers VAX->HP porting assistance. How can we mere mortals convince HP that if you can't attach to a machine, you don't need porting help? Anybody at HP know who is the responsible paper-pusher we can call to scream and rant and rave? Can somebody in the networks group get involved please? We truly need this software if we are to get moving with UNIX in the near future. Please reply... Anybody know the President of HPs' number? ********************************************************************* Tony Burzio * Oh no, not again! Martin Marietta Labs * mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net * *********************************************************************
jsadler@misty.boeing.com (Jim Sadler) (01/10/90)
/ misty:comp.sys.hp / burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) / 8:28 am Jan 7, 1990 / >Anybody know the President of HPs' number? > >********************************************************************* >Tony Burzio * Oh no, not again! >Martin Marietta Labs * >mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net * >********************************************************************* >---------- Boy do I sympathize. jim sadler 206-234-9009 email uunet!bcstec!jsadler|root | hplabs!hpubvwa!b-mrda!jim
taylor@limbo.Intuitive.Com (Dave Taylor) (01/11/90)
Tony Burzio asks "anybody know the President of HPs' number?"
As it happens, yes I do:
Young, John ......................... (415) 857-2114
Further, I surmise that a note sent to the following email address
would get at least to his administrative assistant:
john_young%hp0000@hplabs.hp.com
Note that since Mr. Young is CEO of Hewlett-Packard, he by default
works for their '000' entity, corporate, so it's always an easy guess
that if you want to get email to someone at the highest echelons you
can use the HPDESK "hp0000" hostname...
Further, as a sort of disclaimer, it should be pointed out that a
much better way to complain about something like poor third party
relations is to ask your SE/FE who the Director of Third Party
Software is, then write THEM a note, Cc'ing Mr. Young along the
way. Otherwise it'll just end up routed to them anyway, but with
a delay of at least a week or two, if not more.
Btw: If you *do* call John, please don't tell him I gave you the
number! *smile*
-- Dave Taylor
Intuitive Systems
Mountain View, California
taylor@limbo.intuitive.com or {uunet!}{decwrl,apple}!limbo!taylorfkittred@bbn.com (Fletcher Kittredge) (01/11/90)
In article <642@mmlai.UUCP> burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) writes: > > Stuff about how HP is uncooperative to ISVs It might be that your ISV contact is feeding you a line about why they are not doing this work. We have had a diametrically opposed relationship with HP: they have been very helpful helping us port and develop our software (Sun on the other hand...). I know that HP has a similar relationship with many other ISVs; after all, it is the ISV's software which sells HP systems. regards, fletcher Fletcher E. Kittredge fkittred@bbn.com
garvey@cmic.UUCP (Joe Garvey) (01/11/90)
>>Anybody know the President of HPs' number? >> >>********************************************************************* >>Tony Burzio * Oh no, not again! >>Martin Marietta Labs * >>mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net * >>********************************************************************* >>---------- > >Boy do I sympathize. > > >jim sadler >206-234-9009 email uunet!bcstec!jsadler|root | hplabs!hpubvwa!b-mrda!jim HP's 3rd party support has caused me a great deal of grief too. HP seems to look at third parties as leaches (even if the products don't compete with HP). If you're a third party vendor... Sun will loan you a development system... HP (usually, in my experience) seems to want the 3rd party vendors to by (at retail) a development system. So Sun generates a larger volume (and more sales $$) while customers suffer with limited choices of software. Sigh. >>>>> Business Week lists ole Johnny Young's phone # as 415-857-1501. <<<<< I haven't tried it. Maybe I will after I try to renew my support contract for this year (HP changed the part numbers/descriptions/configuration, again). -- Joe Garvey UUCP: {apple,backbone}!versatc!mips!cmic!garvey California Microwave Internet: garvey%cmic@mips.com 990 Almanor Ave HP Desk: xxx ("mips!cmic!garvey")/hp1900/ux Sunnyvale, Ca, 94086 800-831-3104 (outside CA) 408-720-6439 (let it ring) 800-824-7814 (inside CA)
belkin@teecs.UUCP (Hershel Belkin) (01/11/90)
I am also very interested in the "Ki" LAT and DEKnet software. We run an all-HP shop (825/300's, etc...) in a company consisting of almost all DEC/VMS machines running DECnet. We managed to convince one DEC site to put up the Wollongong TCP/IP software so that we can at least push mail through to DECnet sites, but it's far from a good solution. We plan to buy the LAT software from Ki -- last time I spoke to them they told me that it was working on the 800-series (is this correct?). That will allow users on LAT terminal servers to get to us (and we want them to -- LISTEN,HP: The more DEC users I can get to log on and use software on our systems, the more favourably HP will be looked upon by those users, so the next system they buy...) However, this still leaves my users (on the HP systems) at a disadvantage, since they can't get to the VAX machines to easily share data, or to run existing company software/ access databases, etc. Right now, our users must either use rlogin to get to our one TCP/IP DEC host, and then use DECnet to move to the desired host, or they must connect to a LAT terminal server themselves. With Ki's DEKnet software, this problem would be eliminated. On a similar note, I heard that CDC is also developing DECnet access software for Unix... any confirmation/ information on this?? -- +-----------------------------------------------+-------------------------+ | Hershel Belkin hp9000/825(HP-UX)| UUCP: teecs!belkin | | Test Equipment Engineering Computing Services | Phone: 416 246-2647 | | Litton Systems Canada Limited (Toronto) | FAX: 416 246-5233 | +-----------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
dpb@viking.UUCP (Don Bennett) (01/12/90)
>>>>> Business Week lists ole Johnny Young's phone # as 415-857-1501. <<<<<
His and a few thousand other people who work for HP in Palo Alto.
Don Bennett (408)433-3311
dpb@frame.com
Frame Technologyburzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (01/14/90)
In article <225@cmic.UUCP>, garvey@cmic.UUCP (Joe Garvey) writes: > Sun will loan you a development > system... HP (usually, in my experience) seems to want the 3rd party vendors to > by (at retail) a development system. So Sun generates a larger volume (and > more sales $$) while customers suffer with limited choices of software. Sigh. This seems to be a common thread when 3rd party software support for HP is not up to snuff. Before you purchase softare for HP (or any other vendor) you should first ask if they have your machine on site. If they do not, you probably should go with another vendor, since any port will have lots of bugs and you won't get good customer help on these problems. Another problem is when vendors support multiple platforms. If your platform is near last in line for new version ports, you should begin to wonder. Vendors listed in the HP 3rd party software catalog should be checked to be sure they have a machine on site... > I haven't tried it. Maybe I will after I try to renew my support contract for > this year (HP changed the part numbers/descriptions/configuration, again). Gak! Maintenance contracts! HP does these as well as other computer vendors, which is to say terrible. They should have a SINGLE contact for both software and hardware contracts, where a user could call up and have his contracts verified at a moments notice. I can get my hardware contracts listed (which are always wrong) but I have no idea what software I have under contract. Local Sales Reps should not be used to sell contracts, they should be used to sell computers. My sales rep has enough to do explaining my postings to his manangement. :-) ********************************************************************* Tony Burzio * To survive is not enough. Martin Marietta Labs * mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net * *********************************************************************