[comp.sys.hp] HP 3rd Party Software attitude

burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (01/08/90)

We are a site currently running VAX/VMS from Digital, but are
trying to switch to UNIX.  Unfortunately, we have a great
many DEC LAT termservers and can't replace them.  To our
pleasure, Ki Research was to offer a LAT driver and DECnet
capability for HP-UX.  A call from a distraught Ki Research person
on Friday gave me a pain.  It seems that HP refuses to cooperate
with them in releasing their software in the HP-UX environment.
They plead something about "possible unknown effects" to other
software, even though Ki has ported to all the other UNIX
platforms (even IBM cooperated) and should very well know about
side effects.  The deal is, Ki will need to buy an HP workstation
(other vendors supply them free, they understand the importance
of the port), HP will supply a patch to the ETHERNET driver, then
HP will not allow sale of this patch if they don't feel like it.
What a terrible restriction!

Now, I know HP offers VAX->HP porting assistance.  How can we
mere mortals convince HP that if you can't attach to a machine,
you don't need porting help?  Anybody at HP know who is the 
responsible paper-pusher we can call to scream and rant and rave?
Can somebody in the networks group get involved please?  We truly
need this software if we are to get moving with UNIX in the near
future.  Please reply...

Anybody know the President of HPs' number?

*********************************************************************
Tony Burzio               * Oh no, not again!
Martin Marietta Labs      *
mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net *
*********************************************************************

jsadler@misty.boeing.com (Jim Sadler) (01/10/90)

/ misty:comp.sys.hp / burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) /  8:28 am  Jan  7, 1990 /

>Anybody know the President of HPs' number?
>
>*********************************************************************
>Tony Burzio               * Oh no, not again!
>Martin Marietta Labs      *
>mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net *
>*********************************************************************
>----------

Boy do I sympathize.


jim sadler
206-234-9009	email	uunet!bcstec!jsadler|root  | hplabs!hpubvwa!b-mrda!jim

taylor@limbo.Intuitive.Com (Dave Taylor) (01/11/90)

Tony Burzio asks "anybody know the President of HPs' number?"

As it happens, yes I do:

	Young, John ......................... (415) 857-2114

Further, I surmise that a note sent to the following email address
would get at least to his administrative assistant:

	john_young%hp0000@hplabs.hp.com

Note that since Mr. Young is CEO of Hewlett-Packard, he by default
works for their '000' entity, corporate, so it's always an easy guess
that if you want to get email to someone at the highest echelons you
can use the HPDESK "hp0000" hostname...

Further, as a sort of disclaimer, it should be pointed out that a 
much better way to complain about something like poor third party
relations is to ask your SE/FE who the Director of Third Party
Software is, then write THEM a note, Cc'ing Mr. Young along the 
way.  Otherwise it'll just end up routed to them anyway, but with
a delay of at least a week or two, if not more.

Btw: If you *do* call John, please don't tell him I gave you the
     number!  *smile*

						-- Dave Taylor
Intuitive Systems
Mountain View, California

taylor@limbo.intuitive.com    or   {uunet!}{decwrl,apple}!limbo!taylor

fkittred@bbn.com (Fletcher Kittredge) (01/11/90)

In article <642@mmlai.UUCP> burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) writes:
>
> Stuff about how HP is uncooperative to ISVs

It might be that your ISV contact is feeding you a line about why
they are not doing this work.  We have had a diametrically opposed
relationship with HP: they have been very helpful helping us port
and develop our software (Sun on the other hand...).  I know that
HP has a similar relationship with many other ISVs; after all, it is
the ISV's software which sells HP systems.

regards,
fletcher
Fletcher E. Kittredge  fkittred@bbn.com

garvey@cmic.UUCP (Joe Garvey) (01/11/90)

>>Anybody know the President of HPs' number?
>>
>>*********************************************************************
>>Tony Burzio               * Oh no, not again!
>>Martin Marietta Labs      *
>>mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net *
>>*********************************************************************
>>----------
>
>Boy do I sympathize.
>
>
>jim sadler
>206-234-9009	email	uunet!bcstec!jsadler|root  | hplabs!hpubvwa!b-mrda!jim

HP's 3rd party support has caused me a great deal of grief too. HP seems
to look at third parties as leaches (even if the products don't compete
with HP). If you're a third party vendor... Sun will loan you a development
system... HP (usually, in my experience) seems to want the 3rd party vendors to
by (at retail) a development system. So Sun generates a larger volume (and
more sales $$) while customers suffer with limited choices of software. Sigh.

>>>>> Business Week lists ole Johnny Young's phone # as 415-857-1501. <<<<<

I haven't tried it. Maybe I will after I try to renew my support contract for
this year (HP changed the part numbers/descriptions/configuration, again).

--

Joe Garvey                       UUCP: {apple,backbone}!versatc!mips!cmic!garvey
California Microwave             Internet: garvey%cmic@mips.com
990 Almanor Ave                  HP Desk: xxx ("mips!cmic!garvey")/hp1900/ux
Sunnyvale, Ca, 94086             800-831-3104 (outside CA)
408-720-6439 (let it ring)       800-824-7814 (inside CA)

belkin@teecs.UUCP (Hershel Belkin) (01/11/90)

I am also very interested in the "Ki" LAT and DEKnet software.
We run an all-HP shop (825/300's, etc...) in a company consisting
of almost all DEC/VMS machines running DECnet.  We managed to
convince one DEC site to put up the Wollongong TCP/IP software
so that we can at least push mail through to DECnet sites, but
it's far from a good solution.

We plan to buy the LAT software from Ki -- last time I spoke to them
they told me that it was working on the 800-series (is this correct?).
That will allow users on LAT terminal servers to get to us (and
we want them to -- LISTEN,HP: The more DEC users I can get to log on
and use software on our systems, the more favourably HP will be
looked upon by those users, so the next system they buy...)

However, this still leaves my users (on the HP systems) at a disadvantage,
since they can't get to the VAX machines to easily share data, or to
run existing company software/ access databases, etc.  Right now, our
users must either use rlogin to get to our one TCP/IP DEC host, and
then use DECnet to move to the desired host, or they must connect to
a LAT terminal server themselves.  With Ki's DEKnet software, this
problem would be eliminated. 

On a similar note, I heard that CDC is also developing DECnet access
software for Unix... any confirmation/ information on this??

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Hershel Belkin               hp9000/825(HP-UX)|      UUCP: teecs!belkin |
| Test Equipment Engineering Computing Services |     Phone: 416 246-2647 |
| Litton Systems Canada Limited       (Toronto) |       FAX: 416 246-5233 |
+-----------------------------------------------+-------------------------+

dpb@viking.UUCP (Don Bennett) (01/12/90)

>>>>> Business Week lists ole Johnny Young's phone # as 415-857-1501. <<<<<

His and a few thousand other people who work for HP in Palo Alto.


   Don Bennett           (408)433-3311
   dpb@frame.com
   Frame Technology

burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (01/14/90)

In article <225@cmic.UUCP>, garvey@cmic.UUCP (Joe Garvey) writes:
> Sun will loan you a development
> system... HP (usually, in my experience) seems to want the 3rd party vendors to
> by (at retail) a development system. So Sun generates a larger volume (and
> more sales $$) while customers suffer with limited choices of software. Sigh.

This seems to be a common thread when 3rd party software support for HP is
not up to snuff.  Before you purchase softare for HP (or any other vendor)
you should first ask if they have your machine on site.  If they do not, you 
probably should go with another vendor, since any port will have lots of
bugs and you won't get good customer help on these problems.  Another
problem is when vendors support multiple platforms.  If your platform is
near last in line for new version ports, you should begin to wonder.

Vendors listed in the HP 3rd party software catalog should be checked to be
sure they have a machine on site...

> I haven't tried it. Maybe I will after I try to renew my support contract for
> this year (HP changed the part numbers/descriptions/configuration, again).

Gak!  Maintenance contracts!  HP does these as well as other computer
vendors, which is to say terrible.  They should have a SINGLE contact
for both software and hardware contracts, where a user could call up
and have his contracts verified at a moments notice.  I can get my
hardware contracts listed (which are always wrong) but I have no idea
what software I have under contract.  Local Sales Reps should not be
used to sell contracts, they should be used to sell computers.  My sales
rep has enough to do explaining my postings to his manangement. :-)

*********************************************************************
Tony Burzio               * To survive is not enough.
Martin Marietta Labs      *
mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net *
*********************************************************************