[comp.sys.hp] OSF X tools

burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (02/05/90)

In article <101950091@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com>, tay@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Mike Taylor) writes:
> Although UIMX has been shown at several trade shows, it has never been 
> formally announced nor has it been added to the HP's Corperate Price List.
> UIMX is still in development and should be available sometime in the 
> second half of 1990.  Anything else you have been told is a rumor.

Recently Sun announced that their proprietary window manager was being
ported to other platforms, such as HP. (only the fact that UniPress was
doing the port lent me hope, I have SEEN their software :-)

If HP doesn't finish UIMX before this happens, or NewWave, or any of the
other neat X tools, then you all at HP should just give up.  Sun will
carry the day if the OSF members keep dragging their feet.

You can't sell workstations if you don't have software!

Yes, I really feel strongly about this one :-|

*********************************************************************
Tony Burzio               * Away all boats!
Martin Marietta Labs      *
mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net *
*********************************************************************

chan@hpfcmgw.HP.COM (Chan Benson) (02/08/90)

>Recently Sun announced that their proprietary window manager was being
>ported to other platforms, such as HP. (only the fact that UniPress was
>doing the port lent me hope, I have SEEN their software :-)
>
>If HP doesn't finish UIMX before this happens, or NewWave, or any of the
>other neat X tools, then you all at HP should just give up.  Sun will
>carry the day if the OSF members keep dragging their feet.

A few comments. 

First of all, UIMX does not compete with OpenLook, Motif does.  Motif is
out as an HP product.  UIMX is a Motif application for developing Motif
applications; it is not a window manager.  OSF hardly drug their feet
when it came to Motif, especially compared to how long it took Sun to
get their X11/News product out.

Secondly, from the trade rag account of Sun's announcement I read, I
could not figure what the heck they were talking about. If they are 
talking about XView (a SunView API for X11), then the news is not that
new, XView source has been available for some time now. I believe it's 
on the MIT R4 tape. The only significance I could see is if they are
rewriting XView to eliminate the substantial Berkeleyisms so that it
would move more easily to SYSV.

>You can't sell workstations if you don't have software!

Indeed, but in this case, the news is better for HP than Sun. With
XView it will be much easier for 3rd parties to port their Sunview
code to non-Sun machines. The question remaining is whether customers
will care that those programs have an OpenLook look rather than a
Motif look.

I see this story in a totally different light than you. To me it's an
indication of Sun struggling to reclaim the ground they've lost by
clinging to NeWS and OpenVapor, and the subsequent lateness of an X11 
product.

			-- Chan

ben@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth) (02/08/90)

> Recently Sun announced that their proprietary window manager was 
> being ported to other platforms, such as HP. (only the fact that 
> UniPress was doing the port lent me hope, I have SEEN their software 
> :-)
> 
> If HP doesn't finish UIMX before this happens, or NewWave, or any of 
> the other neat X tools, then you all at HP should just give up.  Sun 
> will carry the day if the OSF members keep dragging their feet.

I don't understand how come you see Sun's window manager as a
threat/competitor with UIMX.  UIMX is an interface builder which is a
much different tool than a window manager.  It would seem that you are
unfamiliar with the technology or at least the terminology.

The competition will be between MWM (Motif Window Manager) and Sun's
window manager.  MWM has been released by OSF and runs very well on HP
platforms (that where we developed it 8-).  MWM has been ported across
a wide variety of platforms and is much more stable than most Sun
software products that I have come in contact with.

> Tony Burzio

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Ellsworth      | ben@cv.hp.com                | INTERNET
Hewlett-Packard Company | {backbone}!hplabs!hp-pcd!ben | UUCP
1000 N.E. Circle        | (USA) (503) 750-4980         | FAX
Corvallis, OR 97330     | (USA) (503) 757-2000         | VOICE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                     All relevant disclaimers apply.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

burzio@mmlai.UUCP (Tony Burzio) (02/11/90)

In article <101950094@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com>, ben@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth) writes:
> The competition will be between MWM (Motif Window Manager) and Sun's
> window manager.  MWM has been released by OSF and runs very well on HP
> platforms (that where we developed it 8-).  MWM has been ported across
> a wide variety of platforms and is much more stable than most Sun
> software products that I have come in contact with.

I am quite aware that the Sun window manager competes with mwm, and that
UIMX is only the interface builder.  The competition is NOT between window
managers per se.  When asked which manager he/she likes, the average
user will reply, "Yeah so?  Which one has better programs AVAILABLE?"
Without UIMX, the OSF member can't catch up with the already available
Sun window manager programs, which are QUITE impressive.  Have you seen
the Xerox-like folder system available on the Sun?  This will probably
bypass NewWave, since it will have a large user base by the time HP
gets around to porting NewWave to UNIX.  How about the extremely large
library of SunTool programs that also run?  Seems Sun has a very large
pool of 3rd party application developers that the OSF members don't have...
Perhaps I am just getting impatient.  I am an HP supporter here at
the Labs, but I am getting tired of being pushed around by the Sunnites
and SGites who say "We have it now!"

*********************************************************************
Tony Burzio               * Can you recommend a way to remedy the 
Martin Marietta Labs      * situation?
mmlai!burzio@uunet.uu.net * Easy, just change the gravitational constant!
*********************************************************************