jos@ele.tue.nl (Jos van Eijndhoven) (09/10/90)
Last week I posted a message asking whether the new hp/apollo 9000-400 machines have standard SIMM memory modules. Thanks to all who replied to me by personal mail. I received several questions to pass around the result. These machines do NOT have standard SIMM modules. However I received 'rumours' that at least two other companies will bring out hp 9000-400 memory clones. Jos van Eijndhoven Eindhoven University of Technology The Netherlands jos@es.ele.tue.nl
andrew@hpqtdla.HP.COM (Andrew Mackenzie) (09/14/90)
Can anybody in workstation group reply to this note and explain to me why HP cannot design a workstation that contains Industry "de-facto" Standard SIMMS such as that used by PC's, Suns. DN2500 etc...etc....etc ????????? HP memory prices (especially for PC's) are extortionate !!!! Andrew andrew@hpsqf
rjn@hpfcso.HP.COM (Bob Niland) (09/18/90)
re: > Can anybody in workstation group reply to this note and explain to me > why HP cannot design a workstation that contains Industry "de-facto" > Standard SIMMS such as that used by PC's, Suns. DN2500 > etc...etc....etc ????????? I am not the RAM Product Marketing Engineer, but I got curious and had a chat with both that PME and the RAM designer in R&D. Part 1: Design The current 98229-series of SIMMs are used in the Model 345, 375 and the entire Series 400 family. They will also be used in the 68040-based versions of these boxes. During the design of the 345/375, WG investigated using PC-style SIMMs. We reluctantly choose a new design for the following reasons: * ECC - The 345/375 and s400 use error-correcting RAM exclusively. PC- style SIMMs are used in unprotected and parity-only designs, and are unsuitable for high-performance ECC designs. * Buffering - PC SIMMs are unbuffered, and provided inadequate timing and signal integrity margins for our SPU design. PC-SIMM designs also require that any buffering be on the CPU board, and that you must pre-install all the buffering needed for max possible RAM. On PC-SIMM designs, you are often paying for 64M RAM capability, even though you are only using 8M. * Performance - The HP SIMM design can support faster cycle times than the PC SIMM design. We expect this to become more significant when the 16 Mbit DRAMs become available. * Width - We wanted a 64-bit wide data path to memory, and a maximum electrical address space of 128 Mbytes (which we can now reach with the 98229E RAM product). * Footprint - The taller SIMMs used in the 375 and 400s are double-row, providing twice as much RAM on each connector. Had we gone with PC-SIMMs, we would probably have been limited to 64M. * Connector - Compared to PC edge-card connectors, pin&socket connectors used on the HP SIMM are more reliable over HP's shake&bake environmental range. This was not a critical factor in the decision, however. Part 2: Pricing * ECC - Adds 8 extra (Hamming) bits to every 64 data bits. * Buffering - aka "Pay as you go". The buffering on each SIMM board raises the cost of the SIMM, but reduces the cost of the CPU. * Connector - Pin&socket is more expensive than PC edge. The higher manufacturing cost accounts for part of the $/Mbyte price difference between HP add-on RAM and competing workstation add-on RAM. The other factors are the ordinary price-elasticity and other financial considerations that keep our stockholders contented. Nonetheless, our RAM PME is constantly re-evaluating our pricing, and I would not be surprised if a reduction occurs. > ...extortionate !!!! HP is very open about its prices and discount schedules, so no one should be surprised after the fact. And we can hardly be accused of "extortion" when there are so many third-party s300/400 plug-compatible RAM vendors out there to keep us honest. Regards, Hewlett-Packard Bob Niland 3404 East Harmony Road Internet: rjn@hpfcrjn.FC.HP.COM Fort Collins UUCP: [hplabs|hpu*!hpfcse]!hpfcrjn!rjn CO 80525-9599 This response does not represent the official position of, or statement by, the Hewlett-Packard Company. The above data is provided for informational purposes only. It is supplied without warranty of any kind.