wunder@orac.HP.COM (Walter Underwood) (12/20/90)
> But why doesn't HP provide the untested code > as "user supported" ? Mostly because we'd be shipping the same code as is available from MIT, but much later. For code that we extend, debug, and speed up, like the X server, it makes sense to ship it a few months later than the MIT release. But for the Athena Widgets? MIT can make tapes for the same money that we'd charge, and they can ship it months earlier. In a larger sense, it is just not clear that tapes are a good mechanism for contributed software. Personally, I'd like to see network distribution for the contrib stuff, and forget the tapes. wunder
eckert@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Toerless Eckert) (12/20/90)
From article <1990Dec17.171742.1309@grep.co.uk>, by frank@grep.co.uk (Frank Wales): ... > Most software updates include new commands, new facilities and performance > or compatibility improvements which are worth actually paying for. And > remember that much of the code in HP-UX wasn't actually written by HP > at all. When was the last time you had to debug a two million line package > you didn't write? > >>It is unfair. > > No, it isn't. Name any commercial vendor who will provide on-going > support and updates completely free of charge. On a demonstration at out university the european director of NeXT told us, that software updates of NeXT's operating system are for free except for handling charges for a lifetime of every NeXT system that you buy. I don't know how the'll manage to do this, and as i don't normally read comp.sys.next nor do have other experience with NeXT, this is just a reflection of what i've been told. And "No", it seems to be a real "handling fee" only, unlike SMI's $995 offer for OpenWindows, as you may copy you're new NeXT OS from a friend who has got the media !! Is this really true ? -- Toerless Eckert | /C=de/A=dbp/P=uni-erlangen/OU=informatik/S=eckert 50GB/M limit: NO MERCY | X.400 ^ Internet> eckert@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
tempest@walleye.uucp (Kenneth K.F. Lui) (12/20/90)
In article <3402@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de> eckert@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Toerless Eckert) writes: >us, that software updates of NeXT's operating system are for free except >for handling charges for a lifetime of every NeXT system that you buy. [...] >a reflection of what i've been told. And "No", it seems to be a real >"handling fee" only, unlike SMI's $995 offer for OpenWindows, as you >may copy you're new NeXT OS from a friend who has got the media !! Yes, it's true. NeXT owners are fortunate enough to receive updates to NeXTstep and any bundled programs for the cost of media. One will pay roughly $200 or so. Anyone who owns a NeXT has the right to use all items that are included in Extended editions (those who bought NeXTstations with the 105MB disk who can't possibly fit all of NeXTstep 2.0 can, as an option, go to anyone who has the Extended Edition and copy it on OD, magnetic disk, or floppy disk, as well as purchase it from NeXT). Source code is a separate item and costs roughly $125 from a separate vendor because most of what's out there is from GNU. Word has it that NeXT will make _almost_ all source available: the interface builder, the Mach kernel, its <Objective-C, C++, and C> compiler, _but_not_AppKit_ from what I've heard. I don't know for sure, since this was from comp.sys.next, but I have doubts about the Objective-C being included because it's from StepStone. NeXT is no different from Apple in the sense of distributing the operating system for free--essentially; however, Apple makes you pay for documentation while NeXT provides it online. Ken ______________________________________________________________________________ tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________|
riordanmr@clvax1.cl.msu.edu (Mark Riordan) (12/20/90)
In article <3402@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de>, eckert@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Toerless Eckert) says: On a demonstration at out university the european director of NeXT told >us, that software updates of NeXT's operating system are for free except >for handling charges for a lifetime of every NeXT system that you buy. >Is this really true ? My NeXT salesman told me (in October) that there is indeed a license fee for the 1.0 -> 2.0 upgrade, not just a media fee. Something to do with additional royalties to AT&T. But the upgrade is priced at $195 list for license + optical disk media. That's about the cost of just an optical, so I wonder if he was wrong. Anyway, the salesman said that he would look into a deal to unbundle the license fee part, since we really don't need all those copies of the optical. Mark Riordan Michigan State Univ. riordanmr@clvax1.cl.msu.edu
minich@d.cs.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) (12/20/90)
frank@grep.co.uk (Frank Wales): | ............. Name any commercial vendor who will provide on-going | support and updates completely free of charge. I haven't paid a penny for system software since buying my Mac in 1984. The "support" isn't great but the price is right. -- |_ /| | Robert Minich | |\'o.O' | Oklahoma State University| "I'm a newcomer here, but does the |=(___)= | minich@d.cs.okstate.edu | net ever lay any argument to rest?" | U | - Ackphtth | -- dan herrick
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (12/20/90)
In article <1990Dec19.224727.29743@d.cs.okstate.edu> minich@d.cs.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) writes:
I haven't paid a penny for system software since buying my Mac in 1984.
The "support" isn't great but the price is right.
--
I think 10 years of system software support is built into Apple's
pricing scheme for new computer purchases and hardware upgrades.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
-Mikeglang@Autodesk.COM (Gary Lang) (12/20/90)
>I think 10 years of system software support is built into Apple's >pricing scheme for new computer purchases and hardware upgrades. >Sorry, I couldn't resist. Then we ought to get 20 years no? Sorry I couldn't resist either. It's a joke; I am convinced that the cube is the best bargain going in computers today. Actually another ripost would be "well, you get what you pay for"... -- Gary T. Lang (415)332-2344 x2702 Autodesk, Inc. Sausalito, CA. MCI: 370-0730
cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu (Chuck Herrick) (12/21/90)
In article <3402@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de> eckert@medusainformatik.uni-erlangen.de (Toerless Eckert) writes: >Is this really true ? no. -- _-_-_-_-_ -_-_-_-_-Chuck Herrick <cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu> The opinions expressed herein are mine and are in no way attributed to any of the many people for whom I work. Who they are is irrelevant.