rkl@and.cs.liv.ac.uk (12/17/90)
In article <1990Dec13.100152@dali.gatech.edu>, mikeg@dali.gatech.edu (Mike Gourlay) writes: > Hi HP people, I don't work for HP, but we have a large installation of HP-UX workstations here, so I'm slightly qualified to comment :-) > I hear that HPUX 8.0 will be shipped out in June or July. > I also hear that X11R4 will be send with it. That is, if you have > `software support.' I'm waiting for disk quotaing with 8.0 myself (and will it work across NFS ?). X11R4 is a dead subject - we got our copy FTP'ed directly from a US archive 2 days after it was announced. Even then, MIT supplied a hacked-by-HP .o file for the X11R4 server, which was annoying when most/all of the other target machines could compile from the C sources. We now compile all PD stuff using MIT's X11R4 and we don't even touch HP's 7.0 X11 release. > My local HP rep was confused when I told her I knew of > people with X11R4 on an HP. She seems to think that it hasn't been > released yet. People have it, though! We do. You can order it from MIT on 4 tapes for a nominal fee. > Will the X11R4 binaries running on HPUX 6.5 also run > on a similar machine running 7.0? Yes, here's the experience we've had: Compiled on Works on HP X11R2/6.5 HP X11R2/6.5, HP X11R3/7.0, MIT X11R4/7.0 HP X11R3/7.0 HP X11R2/6.5, HP X11R3/7.0 MIT X11R4/7.0 HP X11R3/7.0 and MIT X11R4/7.0 - *not* under 6.5 Of course, font paths and libraries can cause problems, but there are workarounds. > Specifically, will the X binaries > running on a HPUX 6.5 9000s319C+ run on a HPUX 7.0 9000s370? > Libraries? Server? Client? Should be OK, but I can't guarantee that. > Why does the X11R3 that comes with HPUX 7.0 not include > some of the X routines that many public programs expect? Will X11R4 > lack this hideous problem? Even the MIT release of X11R3 did not come with some of the libraries needed by many PD X11R4 programs. This is a problem: HP lag 6-8 months behind MIT on their releases...and they also tweak the MIT release, which is a bit naughty. > Why does HP consider fixing their software bugs (called an update > of the OS) something for which you have to pay big money for a > support contract? It is unfair. It's disk quotaing that is possibly HP's biggest faux pas. That is a desperately required feature of HP-UX, especially in an academic situation with 100's of undergrads, and I feel that 8.0 should be 'free' to those without a support contract, simply because rival manufacturer's (Sun springs to mind) have had disk quotaing for many years. > X should be compilable from the distribution > at MIT, and so capable people should be able to compile X11R4 without > waiting for the newest distribution from HP. Has anyone done that? Yes, but it was a big problem working out where to put MIT's X11R4. After playing with dreaded cdf's, we've finally settled on a /MIT top level (under which are the bin, include and lib dirs) soft-linked to a central disk mounted via NFS. Customised scripts allow either version to be started up (with separate ~/.x11start and ~/.mitstart startup files). > That, according to her, > is why WE HAVE TO PAY HP TO GIVE US PUBLIC DOMAIN SOFTWARE > AND BUG FIXES TO THEIR WEIRD, BUGGY, INCOMPLETE UNIX > PORT AND SPECIAL VERSION OF X. I object to HP including an highly-modified release of Elm with 7.0 and then removing any trace of the original author's names. We've renamed ours to elm.7.0 (and newmail.7.0) and soft-linked elm and newmail to the latest PD version (elm 2.3 PL9). > For now, I run many of the X apps I need on a Sparc, and just > have the Sparc use my display. EtherNet is wonderful. xhost + is > fantastic. My HPUX is being used as a dumb X terminal!!! I'd like it > to evolve into something more useful. I'd recommend a minimum HP-UX configuration of 16MB RAM, preferably with a colour display and at least a 300MB system disk. Diskless machines or machines with <16MB RAM really do suffer massive peformance degradation when running X. Richard K. Lloyd, *** This is a MicroVAX II running VAX/VMS V5.3-1 *** Computer Science Dept., * JANET : RKL@UK.AC.LIV.CS.AND * Liverpool University, * Internet : RKL%and.cs.liv.ac.uk@cunyvm.cuny.edu * Merseyside, England, **************************************************** Great Britain. Q: "What's the world's fastest home micro ?" L69 3BX A: "The Archimedes A3000. 4 MIPS for under 800 pounds."
paul@prcrs.UUCP (Paul Hite) (12/19/90)
In article <1990Dec17.113709.8929@and.cs.liv.ac.uk>, rkl@and.cs.liv.ac.uk writes: > > It's disk quotaing that is possibly HP's biggest faux pas. That is a > desperately required feature of HP-UX, especially in an academic situation > with 100's of undergrads, and I feel that 8.0 should be 'free' to those > without a support contract, simply because rival manufacturer's (Sun springs > to mind) have had disk quotaing for many years. > > Richard K. Lloyd, *** This is a MicroVAX II running VAX/VMS V5.3-1 *** > Computer Science Dept., * JANET : RKL@UK.AC.LIV.CS.AND * This is the second time in a week that someone from the academic world has opined that they should get free upgrades because HP is adding features that other vendors have had for awhile. Do you guys run your own business this way? For example, when you offered your first C++ course, did you offer all of your former students free C++ training? Do you routinely do this for every course, excluding only those courses which your university offers before any other? Perhaps some of your colleagues will argue that bug fixes, not new features, should be free. But again, do you offer to reteach, for free, anyone who attended a course which later is found to contain incorrect information? If you do operate in this manner, how do fund it? After all, like operating systems, an education in computer science is never really complete. Paul Hite PRC Realty Systems McLean,Va uunet!prcrs!paul (703) 556-2243 You can't tell which way the train went by studying its tracks.
brad@bwilab3.UUCP (Bradley Ward) (12/21/90)
In article <1357@prcrs.UUCP>, paul@prcrs.UUCP (Paul Hite) writes: > In article <1990Dec17.113709.8929@and.cs.liv.ac.uk>, rkl@and.cs.liv.ac.uk writes: > > This is the second time in a week that someone from the academic world has > opined that they should get free upgrades because HP is adding features that > other vendors have had for awhile. > > Do you guys run your own business this way? For example, when you offered > your first C++ course, did you offer all of your former students free C++ > training? Do you routinely do this for every course, excluding only those > courses which your university offers before any other? > > Paul Hite PRC Realty Systems McLean,Va uunet!prcrs!paul (703) 556-2243 > You can't tell which way the train went by studying its tracks. Yes, Paul, I totally agree. And I will offer a suggestion to these authors that you have referenced. They should resign their posts in the academic world and start their own business. Their product would be nice packages of all public domain software plus any other operating systems or whatever they could get ahold of. It would be well documented, supported by a well trained staff of support engineers with 800 number access, and would have bug fixes provided at least once a quarter. I for one would definitely be interested in subscribing to this service, especially since it would be free ! :-) Bradley Ward Phone: 404-396-4292 BRADLEY WARD, INC. FAX: 404-396-6509 5901-A Peachtree Dunwoody Road, N.E. Suite 415 Atlanta, Georgia 30328 ...!uunet!gatech!galbp!bwilab3!brad